No puzzle, Tracy. There are big variations in the ‘economic inactivity rates’ of countries. The main reasons for economic inactivity (at least in developed countries) are education and training, and family responsibilities; but other situations, such as early retirement, long-term illness or disability etc, also play a part.

I purposively and carefully avoided the “job number” issue. What I am claiming is that jobs lost are not being replaced with higher paying jobs or even jobs of equivalent monetary value. Furthermore, the educational system, once the way to higher paying jobs, is breaking.

In short, real wage growth has fallen for most people; risen for the very wealthy—a two-tiered system. If increasing numbers of people have to work beyond their retirement years, or take two jobs to survive, something is amiss. That more and more people are moving below the poverty line is factually not debatable.

Incidentally, in NZ, labour force participation is defined as everyone over 15, if you define it as 15-64 it goes up to 77.9% (March 2005 figure).
(http://www2.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/pasfull/pasfull.nsf/0/4c2567ef00247c6acc256fa4001356c1?OpenDocument)

Furtheremore, given that US has a broadly similar labour participation rate to NZ, and all NZers are paid a non-means-tested benefit at age 65, I don’t think there’s some extraordinary number of Americans over 65 having to work who drive the figures up. A number of old Kiwis do work, but not in the sense of “have to work or eat”. Mandatory retirements are banned as illegal age discrimination.

And, if a large number of Americans are having to work, then it’s proof that there are lots of jobs around. Maybe you think they shouldn’t have to be taking them, but that’s different from your original argument that there was a shortage of jobs.

Participation is a tricky variable. Depends on when they actually retire from the labor force. Some simply cannot retire.

Mandatory retirement for most professions in Ontario is 65…same in England, I think…and in a lot of Europe. Not so in the states. Work until you drop. It would be interesting to have the state stats on those over 65 who simply have to work. My step-father had to work until he was in his 80’s.

This provides some sort of check -if unemployment is being hidden by one country more than another I would expect it to show up in the labour force participation rate. This does show higher labour force participation in the US than in France, which is not what I’d expect if the US and France had the same “real” unemployment rates.

There is a puzzle here in the UK having low unemployment while also a lower participation rate than the US or NZ.

Sorry, can’t find the international data for later than 2003, probably because I don’t read french that well.

(see http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/outside.jsp?survey=in for everyone but NZ, otherwise see http://xtabs.stats.govt.nz/eng/TableViewer/Wdsview/dispviewp.asp?ReportName=Employment%20and%20Unemployment/Key%20Labour%20Force%20Measures%20by%20Qualification,%20Age%20and%20Sex)

I just want my kids to have safety-nets—very hard to come by in the US—and options. I have a suspicion that the whole desperate push by American parents to get their kids in the best pre-schools, etc. isn’t geared so much to get them at the top of the pyramid as to provide cushions and safety nets so that they don’t end up drudging at Walmart. It’s like proving a theorem by proving something stronger.

All I want for my kids is that they get BAs in scientific or technical areas so that they’re readily employable, can get jobs that have some intellectual interest, and have some choice about where they live. Anything beyond that is gravy—and I can’t fathom why anyone would want anything “beyond” that for their kids—or themselves. Do people really want more or are they just afraid that if they don’t work like the devil, push as hard as they can, they’ll end up in service sector drudge jobs which the US is cranking out in the greatest abundance.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the book. Tom’s post did hit a nerve in me. Remember Clinton’s effort to have health reform? And all the ads about “socialized” medicine…we have the greatest system going. Yeah yeah. One of my brother is an endocrinologist—our arguments were fierce. Now even he admits the whole thing is broken. So much for market forces.

Wonder how many economists sided with the “market forces” then? Economist often present little graphs concerning the trade-offs between equity (social justice) and efficiency (market forces). I frankly find these graphs amusing. But they learned them in school and never thought much further.

Now I watch as the educational system just implodes. My sons, quite well-off in Westchester, NY try to calculate the cost…insane.

I finally up and left the country for Canada. Here health care is sane…everyone pays into it. Everyone gets it. Maybe I cannot have absolutely the best…so what? Could not afford the very best the states. The deductible was becoming absurd.

But I tell you, even while I waited to be a landed immigrant, I paid a fraction of the insurance costs here than I did in the states. And when I did have to shell out money, actual costs for things like x-rays, tests, etc. were far, far cheaper. And frankly, I have found the care absolutely superb…and I live in a tiny village.

Compared to the states, higher education in Canada is available to all at reasonable prices.

From my point of view, I am watching the U.S. devour itself. It will take time…wealth is still pouring into the very upper class—that is where the economic boom is. But the wage differentials are growing, growing faster than most would like to admit.

It is all so stupid. America has such great promise—but ideology has always been its blind spot. It simply refuses to learn from others.

Jobs in NZ that are
a) very unlikely to be outsourced
b) do not require super-whiz high level training
c) have trouble filling positions
include – nurses – other medical technicians – other care workers, e.g. care for the disabled – builders – mechanics – linesmen, for both electricity companies and telecoms companies – retail staff (every shop in Lambton Quay seems to have a sign out saying “Help Wanted” at the moment) – plumbers – technical drafters – teachers – chefs – waiters – social workers – armed forces (who will train you to do one of the above trades jobs) – non-drug-taking fishermen and forestry workers – farm hands/managers – florists (really) – hairdressers – childcare workers
And this is only a partial list.

I think you would really like the book, honest.

One can probably find a reasonably sounding counterargument for most detailed arguments; it’s agitprop-style arguments that are not refutable in this particular case.