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	<title>Comments on: Pogrom meme</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-2/#comment-116448</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2005 08:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116448</guid>
		<description>Not that I&#039;m a defender of segregation, but is there any evidence that culture-based segregation (in the sense described here: schools, community centers, etc) &lt;i&gt;without discrimination&lt;/i&gt; causes racial, religious or ethnic tensions? Not obvious to me at all. I don&#039;t see the Amish being hated or, say, Chinese in NY and SF.

But practicing crony capitalism based on race or ethnicity outside your community sure does...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not that I&#8217;m a defender of segregation, but is there any evidence that culture-based segregation (in the sense described here: schools, community centers, etc) <i>without discrimination</i> causes racial, religious or ethnic tensions? Not obvious to me at all. I don&#8217;t see the Amish being hated or, say, Chinese in NY and SF.</p>

	<p>But practicing crony capitalism based on race or ethnicity outside your community sure does&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-2/#comment-116429</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Nov 2005 02:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116429</guid>
		<description>Nick -- have you read the white paper? And do you know that, for examples, church schools no longer interview parents? Do you have a practicable solution to the inequity concerning religious schooling?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nick&#8212;have you read the white paper? And do you know that, for examples, church schools no longer interview parents? Do you have a practicable solution to the inequity concerning religious schooling?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-2/#comment-116320</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116320</guid>
		<description>fair enough if we can also agree iv) this wasn&#039;t a riot which can be credibly blamed on any particular public policy and v) that in as much as the claim &quot;the pseudo-left are keen on segregation&quot; means anything, it&#039;s probably wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>fair enough if we can also agree iv) this wasn&#8217;t a riot which can be credibly blamed on any particular public policy and v) that in as much as the claim &#8220;the pseudo-left are keen on segregation&#8221; means anything, it&#8217;s probably wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-2/#comment-116314</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116314</guid>
		<description>So let&#039;s agree that i) there doesn&#039;t seem to be too much evidence of ethnically exclusive projects for the unemployed; ii) there is plenty of evidence for ethnically exclusive &#039;regeneration&#039; projects, and of competition for the same; iii) Chris Bertram has rather generously defended a particular point made by Nick Cohen, and were Mr Cohen to happen by again, he could acknowledge that Chris Bertram isn&#039;t a defender of religious segregation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So let&#8217;s agree that i) there doesn&#8217;t seem to be too much evidence of ethnically exclusive projects for the unemployed; ii) there is plenty of evidence for ethnically exclusive &#8216;regeneration&#8217; projects, and of competition for the same; iii) Chris Bertram has rather generously defended a particular point made by Nick Cohen, and were Mr Cohen to happen by again, he could acknowledge that Chris Bertram isn&#8217;t a defender of religious segregation.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-2/#comment-116308</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116308</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve also just found out that the Asian Resource Centre recently celebrated its Silver Jubilee, so it was there at the time of the first Handsworth riots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve also just found out that the Asian Resource Centre recently celebrated its Silver Jubilee, so it was there at the time of the first Handsworth riots.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116307</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116307</guid>
		<description>Googling for &quot;Birmingham Employment Zone&quot; gets some results. Seems to be some sort of public-private partnership involving Pertemps. The first website I found boasts that 56 per cent of the over 9000 people helped were from ethnic minorities - from which it follows that 44 per cent weren&#039;t!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Googling for &#8220;Birmingham Employment Zone&#8221; gets some results. Seems to be some sort of public-private partnership involving Pertemps. The first website I found boasts that 56 per cent of the over 9000 people helped were from ethnic minorities &#8211; from which it follows that 44 per cent weren&#8217;t!</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116305</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116305</guid>
		<description>Yes, but I&#039;m not actually seeing any &quot;projects for the black unemployed&quot; at all.  A google search is worse than useless (it picks up that article, plus a load of stuff about Birmingham Alabama) but there is nothing I can find on the Birmingham council website, or the DWP website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, but I&#8217;m not actually seeing any &#8220;projects for the black unemployed&#8221; at all.  A google search is worse than useless (it picks up that article, plus a load of stuff about Birmingham Alabama) but there is nothing I can find on the Birmingham council website, or the <span class="caps">DWP</span> website.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116304</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116304</guid>
		<description>I think you have to interpret Nick charitably there Daniel, so 

_you see projects for the black unemployed, not all the unemployed_

= there are some projects which are aimed at the black rather than the generality of unemployed.

rather than

= there are no projects for the unemployed that are aimed at the generality (they are all exclusivist).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think you have to interpret Nick charitably there Daniel, so</p>

	<p><em>you see projects for the black unemployed, not all the unemployed</em></p>

	<p>= there are some projects which are aimed at the black rather than the generality of unemployed.</p>

	<p>rather than</p>

	<p>= there are no projects for the unemployed that are aimed at the generality (they are all exclusivist).</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116303</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116303</guid>
		<description>(and I reiterate, Handsworth isn&#039;t a ghetto in the sense of a monoethnic community).

By the way, Nick Cohen makes a very specific claim about Birmingham in that column which I think is quite likely to be untrue.

&lt;i&gt;Yet in Birmingham, you see projects for the black unemployed, not all the unemployed; for disadvantaged Asians or Indians or Muslims, not all the disadvantaged. &lt;/i&gt;

I cannot find any such projects and I&#039;ve looked throughout the Birmingham city council website.  Particularly, looking through the SRB6 &quot;current projects&quot; sections on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=25254&amp;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&amp;MENU_ID=12548&amp;EXPAND=12546&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Community, Health and Social Exclusion&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=25254&amp;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&amp;MENU_ID=12548&amp;EXPAND=12546&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Business, Economy and Infrastructure&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=26165&amp;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&amp;MENU_ID=12549&amp;EXPAND=12546&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Education, Employment and Training&lt;/a&gt; sections, I find precisely one such scheme; money has been granted for an Afro-Caribbean Resource Centre (there is already an Asian Resource Centre).

The claim that Birmingham has no general programmes aimed at the unemployed or at the disadvantaged is so manifestly false if taken literally (there is no SureStart in Birmingham?  No Job Clubs?) that I&#039;m not sure what metaphorical sense NIck means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>(and I reiterate, Handsworth isn&#8217;t a ghetto in the sense of a monoethnic community).</p>

	<p>By the way, Nick Cohen makes a very specific claim about Birmingham in that column which I think is quite likely to be untrue.</p>

	<p><i>Yet in Birmingham, you see projects for the black unemployed, not all the unemployed; for disadvantaged Asians or Indians or Muslims, not all the disadvantaged. </i></p>

	<p>I cannot find any such projects and I&#8217;ve looked throughout the Birmingham city council website.  Particularly, looking through the <span class="caps">SRB6 </span>&#8220;current projects&#8221; sections on <a href="http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=25254&#038;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&#038;MENU_ID=12548&#038;EXPAND=12546" rel="nofollow">Community, Health and Social Exclusion</a>, <a href="http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=25254&#038;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&#038;MENU_ID=12548&#038;EXPAND=12546" rel="nofollow">Business, Economy and Infrastructure</a> and <a href="http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=26165&#038;CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&#038;MENU_ID=12549&#038;EXPAND=12546" rel="nofollow">Education, Employment and Training</a> sections, I find precisely one such scheme; money has been granted for an Afro-Caribbean Resource Centre (there is already an Asian Resource Centre).</p>

	<p>The claim that Birmingham has no general programmes aimed at the unemployed or at the disadvantaged is so manifestly false if taken literally (there is no SureStart in Birmingham?  No Job Clubs?) that I&#8217;m not sure what metaphorical sense NIck means.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116301</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116301</guid>
		<description>Shorter Dsquared: &#039;I have definitely run out of arguments, but if I accuse somebody else of ranting I might get a last ironic cheer.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shorter Dsquared: &#8216;I have definitely run out of arguments, but if I accuse somebody else of ranting I might get a last ironic cheer.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116297</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 20:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116297</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t actually recall him &quot;talking about&quot; faith schools; just tacking them onto the end of his usual self-flagellating rant about how the whole world&#039;s going to hell and it&#039;s all the fault of people who pay £1.45 every week to read the Observer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t actually recall him &#8220;talking about&#8221; faith schools; just tacking them onto the end of his usual self-flagellating rant about how the whole world&#8217;s going to hell and it&#8217;s all the fault of people who pay &#163;1.45 every week to read the Observer.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116296</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116296</guid>
		<description>Dsquared: &#039;because of a conflict that was defined specifically in economic terms.&#039;
Um, no; because of a conflict that was defined in partly economic terms (competition over the local legal retailing and illegal drugs trades); partly in terms of &#039;respect&#039; (cf the many vox pops with blacks saying that they were treated with contempt by Asian shopkeepers and Asians saying that their premises were threatened by blacks); partly in weird sexual terms (more than one allegation of Asians gang-raping or molesting black women) and partly, yes, in religious terms: unless you&#039;re going to say that the holding of a protest meeting inside a Church, followed by attacks on a nearby mosque, were empty of religious significance. 

Dsquared: &#039; Someone has managed to dig up an alleged grievance about government “community” money, but the actual email that was circulating was entirely about the position of Asians in the private sector.&#039;
Well, in the presence of such expertise one speaks with humility. None the less, Gus John, who does know rather a lot about inner city education and racism, wrote in the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1600704,00.html):
&#039;The answer lies in the strained relationship between the African and Asian communities in Handsworth-Lozells over the past three decades and the way Birmingham city council and government funding regimes have fuelled this hostility. ...
&#039;the perception is that access to funding is anything but equitable. In the past two years there have been inter-ethnic conflicts over the allocation of £49m from the single regeneration budget (SRB) and the balance of representation of African and Asian people on the SRB board. African-Caribbean groups complained of losing out because they were required to find £3,000 to match each £1,000 they were given, something the Asian community found easier to do because of the way their communities and businesses were run. And Asians complained that there were too many Africans on the board.

&#039;What is more, the perception is that access to funding is anything but equitable. In the past two years there have been inter-ethnic conflicts over the allocation of £49m from the single regeneration budget (SRB) and the balance of representation of African and Asian people on the SRB board. African-Caribbean groups complained of losing out because they were required to find £3,000 to match each £1,000 they were given, something the Asian community found easier to do because of the way their communities and businesses were run. And Asians complained that there were too many Africans on the board.&#039;

Gus John knows a lot about it and he is saying that competition for funding is part of the problem. And, unlike you, he is citing dates and figures, rather than referring to one single email. Furthermore, he goes on to argue that poverty and inequality are indeed part of the problem: he just isn&#039;t simple-minded enough to suggest that they are the only causes of the problem.

Dsquared: &#039;I am not at all convinced that this is an appropriate occasion for us to have the “faith schools are bad” sermon.&#039;
Really? Personally I&#039;m sick to death of the use of the word &#039;inappropriate&#039; to mean &#039;might offend any self-appointed community leader with ready media access&#039;. You yourself admit that there&#039;s a case to be made that faith schools didn&#039;t create, but would worsen, pre-existing ethnic tensions: this is precisely what I said and precisely why it is an &#039;appropriate&#039; time for Cohen to talk about faith schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dsquared: &#8216;because of a conflict that was defined specifically in economic terms.&#8217;<br />
Um, no; because of a conflict that was defined in partly economic terms (competition over the local legal retailing and illegal drugs trades); partly in terms of &#8216;respect&#8217; (cf the many vox pops with blacks saying that they were treated with contempt by Asian shopkeepers and Asians saying that their premises were threatened by blacks); partly in weird sexual terms (more than one allegation of Asians gang-raping or molesting black women) and partly, yes, in religious terms: unless you&#8217;re going to say that the holding of a protest meeting inside a Church, followed by attacks on a nearby mosque, were empty of religious significance.</p>

	<p>Dsquared: &#8217; Someone has managed to dig up an alleged grievance about government &#8220;community&#8221; money, but the actual email that was circulating was entirely about the position of Asians in the private sector.&#8217;<br />
Well, in the presence of such expertise one speaks with humility. None the less, Gus John, who does know rather a lot about inner city education and racism, wrote in the Guardian (<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1600704,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1600704,00.html</a>):<br />
&#8216;The answer lies in the strained relationship between the African and Asian communities in Handsworth-Lozells over the past three decades and the way Birmingham city council and government funding regimes have fuelled this hostility. &#8230;<br />
&#8216;the perception is that access to funding is anything but equitable. In the past two years there have been inter-ethnic conflicts over the allocation of &#163;49m from the single regeneration budget (SRB) and the balance of representation of African and Asian people on the <span class="caps">SRB</span> board. African-Caribbean groups complained of losing out because they were required to find &#163;3,000 to match each &#163;1,000 they were given, something the Asian community found easier to do because of the way their communities and businesses were run. And Asians complained that there were too many Africans on the board.</p>

	<p>&#8216;What is more, the perception is that access to funding is anything but equitable. In the past two years there have been inter-ethnic conflicts over the allocation of &#163;49m from the single regeneration budget (SRB) and the balance of representation of African and Asian people on the <span class="caps">SRB</span> board. African-Caribbean groups complained of losing out because they were required to find &#163;3,000 to match each &#163;1,000 they were given, something the Asian community found easier to do because of the way their communities and businesses were run. And Asians complained that there were too many Africans on the board.&#8217;</p>

	<p>Gus John knows a lot about it and he is saying that competition for funding is part of the problem. And, unlike you, he is citing dates and figures, rather than referring to one single email. Furthermore, he goes on to argue that poverty and inequality are indeed part of the problem: he just isn&#8217;t simple-minded enough to suggest that they are the only causes of the problem.</p>

	<p>Dsquared: &#8216;I am not at all convinced that this is an appropriate occasion for us to have the &#8220;faith schools are bad&#8221; sermon.&#8217;<br />
Really? Personally I&#8217;m sick to death of the use of the word &#8216;inappropriate&#8217; to mean &#8216;might offend any self-appointed community leader with ready media access&#8217;. You yourself admit that there&#8217;s a case to be made that faith schools didn&#8217;t create, but would worsen, pre-existing ethnic tensions: this is precisely what I said and precisely why it is an &#8216;appropriate&#8217; time for Cohen to talk about faith schools.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116294</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116294</guid>
		<description>From Daniel:&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;In other words, the problem here is actually the inequality and the poverty, an issue which I believe is still a minor concern of the Left....&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;The fundamental problem here appears to be the extent to which it is worse to not own a shop than to own one, which is something that has (as measured by the inequality statistics) something that hasn’t got better and has arguably got worse over the last ten years....&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;What I (and presumably Bruschetta Boy) object to is the use of a news item to hack out the same old article. It’s “Why The Riots Mean We Must Support My Politics”.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I think I&#039;ll just let this stand without comment....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>From Daniel:<blockquote><em>In other words, the problem here is actually the inequality and the poverty, an issue which I believe is still a minor concern of the Left&#8230;.</em></blockquote></p>

	<p><em>The fundamental problem here appears to be the extent to which it is worse to not own a shop than to own one, which is something that has (as measured by the inequality statistics) something that hasn&#8217;t got better and has arguably got worse over the last ten years&#8230;.</em></p>

	<p><em>What I (and presumably Bruschetta Boy) object to is the use of a news item to hack out the same old article. It&#8217;s &#8220;Why The Riots Mean We Must Support My Politics&#8221;.</em>I think I&#8217;ll just let this stand without comment&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116289</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116289</guid>
		<description>Well maybe.  But the actual facts of this riot don&#039;t actually seem to fit the theory.  Both sides actually defined the conflict as one in which &quot;blacks&quot; (including Carribeans who are usually secular or Christians and Africans who are usually secular, Christians or Muslims) and &quot;Asians&quot; (including Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs) fought against each other because of a conflict that was defined specifically in economic terms.

In other words, the problem here is actually the inequality and the poverty, an issue which I believe is still a minor concern of the Left.  These were two groups that can be marked out by &quot;race&quot; (as long as you&#039;re prepared to call all black Britons a &quot;race&quot; and all South Asian Britons another separate &quot;race&quot;), but they didn&#039;t actually live separate lives at all; quite the reverse, they met each other whenever they went shopping for hair products.  Someone has managed to dig up an alleged grievance about government &quot;community&quot; money, but the actual email that was circulating was entirely about the position of Asians in the private sector.

I am not at all convinced that this is an appropriate occasion for us to have the &quot;faith schools are bad&quot; sermon.  It might very well be that faith schools are bad and will make this problem worse, but not having faith schools isn&#039;t going to make it better.  The fundamental problem here appears to be the extent to which it is worse to not own a shop than to own one, which is something that has (as measured by the inequality statistics) something that hasn&#039;t got better and has arguably got worse over the last ten years.

What I (and presumably Bruschetta Boy) object to is the use of a news item to hack out the same old article.  It&#039;s &quot;Why The Riots Mean We Must Support My Politics&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well maybe.  But the actual facts of this riot don&#8217;t actually seem to fit the theory.  Both sides actually defined the conflict as one in which &#8220;blacks&#8221; (including Carribeans who are usually secular or Christians and Africans who are usually secular, Christians or Muslims) and &#8220;Asians&#8221; (including Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs) fought against each other because of a conflict that was defined specifically in economic terms.</p>

	<p>In other words, the problem here is actually the inequality and the poverty, an issue which I believe is still a minor concern of the Left.  These were two groups that can be marked out by &#8220;race&#8221; (as long as you&#8217;re prepared to call all black Britons a &#8220;race&#8221; and all South Asian Britons another separate &#8220;race&#8221;), but they didn&#8217;t actually live separate lives at all; quite the reverse, they met each other whenever they went shopping for hair products.  Someone has managed to dig up an alleged grievance about government &#8220;community&#8221; money, but the actual email that was circulating was entirely about the position of Asians in the private sector.</p>

	<p>I am not at all convinced that this is an appropriate occasion for us to have the &#8220;faith schools are bad&#8221; sermon.  It might very well be that faith schools are bad and will make this problem worse, but not having faith schools isn&#8217;t going to make it better.  The fundamental problem here appears to be the extent to which it is worse to not own a shop than to own one, which is something that has (as measured by the inequality statistics) something that hasn&#8217;t got better and has arguably got worse over the last ten years.</p>

	<p>What I (and presumably Bruschetta Boy) object to is the use of a news item to hack out the same old article.  It&#8217;s &#8220;Why The Riots Mean We Must Support My Politics&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-116284</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/10/30/pogrom-meme/#comment-116284</guid>
		<description>Abb1 has actually made a fair point, and alas the fault lies in my lack of clarity.  I should have stated that the UK government is now in the habit of asking community leaders to compete against each other for grants- eg a pot of money can be intended for area x, but if Ethnic Minority Group A has a more convincing bid for using it than Ethnic Minority Group B, A will get more than B, which is an obvious source of conflict. Cantle talked about this a lot re Oldham, and press reports on Brum have mentioned the same thing. 

Obviously it&#039;s vanishingly unlikely that the hooligans tearing up the streets are particulary worried by that. But it&#039;s relevant because if we a) set up &#039;ethnic minority leaders&#039; as interlocutors for the police and government and then b) set various &#039;ethnic minority leaders&#039; to compete against each other for cash, they&#039;re unlikely to be co-operating to lessen ethnic tension.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1 has actually made a fair point, and alas the fault lies in my lack of clarity.  I should have stated that the UK government is now in the habit of asking community leaders to compete against each other for grants- eg a pot of money can be intended for area x, but if Ethnic Minority Group A has a more convincing bid for using it than Ethnic Minority Group B, A will get more than B, which is an obvious source of conflict. Cantle talked about this a lot re Oldham, and press reports on Brum have mentioned the same thing.</p>

	<p>Obviously it&#8217;s vanishingly unlikely that the hooligans tearing up the streets are particulary worried by that. But it&#8217;s relevant because if we a) set up &#8216;ethnic minority leaders&#8217; as interlocutors for the police and government and then b) set various &#8216;ethnic minority leaders&#8217; to compete against each other for cash, they&#8217;re unlikely to be co-operating to lessen ethnic tension.</p>
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