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	<title>Comments on: Boris Johnson on Bombing Al-Jazeera</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125707</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125707</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And as Al Jazeera is widely perceived to have chosen to act as the “information ministry” for the fascist Islamist movement in general and Bin Laden’s network in particular&lt;/i&gt;

The thing about perceptions is that it is generally a good idea if they have some degree of grounding in reality.

If you can&#039;t tell the difference between a giant and a windmill, then the noblest of intentions won&#039;t prevent you from looking an idiot and being a menace.

Al jazeera may well be big, scary and above all unfamiliar, but don&#039;t let that lead you to the same mistake as Don Quixote.

soru</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>And as Al Jazeera is widely perceived to have chosen to act as the &#8220;information ministry&#8221; for the fascist Islamist movement in general and Bin Laden&#8217;s network in particular</i></p>

	<p>The thing about perceptions is that it is generally a good idea if they have some degree of grounding in reality.</p>

	<p>If you can&#8217;t tell the difference between a giant and a windmill, then the noblest of intentions won&#8217;t prevent you from looking an idiot and being a menace.</p>

	<p>Al jazeera may well be big, scary and above all unfamiliar, but don&#8217;t let that lead you to the same mistake as Don Quixote.</p>

	<p>soru</p>
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		<title>By: IJ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125700</link>
		<dc:creator>IJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125700</guid>
		<description>Attacking the headquarters of Al Jazeera was &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001118.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recommended&lt;/a&gt; many times in the past.  It wasn&#039;t done, of course, but there are few enforceable rules to stop warfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Attacking the headquarters of Al Jazeera was <a HREF="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001118.html" rel="nofollow">recommended</a> many times in the past.  It wasn&#8217;t done, of course, but there are few enforceable rules to stop warfare.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125660</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125660</guid>
		<description>Odd.. I thought it a common war strategy to take down your enemy’s command, control and communications infrastructure. I imagine there would be many benefits to denying your enemy the ability to disseminate information and propaganda electronically. And as Al Jazeera is widely perceived to have chosen to act as the &quot;information ministry&quot; for the fascist Islamist movement in general and Bin Laden&#039;s network in particular. It would stand to reason that sooner or later Al Jazeera might find itself looking at a situation not unlike one that occurred in &#039;98. In which a satellite guided bomb from a B-2 &quot;accidentally&quot; found its way into the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Which, coincidentally, occurred immediately after the Americans learned that the Chinese were providing the Serb military with logistical support.  

Considering what they could do if they chose to. And considering the fact that, as divided as the American public is about why they went to war, the general attitude of most of them is one of “Lets just take the leash off the military, let em do what they do best and end this thing. Then bring em home.” 
Far from getting indignant at the fact the idea of bombing AJ was tossed about – I’m rather surprised at the restraint shown so far by the fact they’re still on the air.

And don’t think any concern for the opinion of Europeans or anyone else ways heavy on their decision making process. Paraphrasing here – But the attitude towards the complaining of foreigners (Europeans in particular) has been summed up for me as “Complain? Let em complain all they want. You figure the more energy they spend bitching about us – the less likely it is they’ll l fall back into their default mode of acting out their frustrations &amp; start killing each other off in obscene numbers again.. Naaah, better to have em hate on us than us have to waste any more blood and treasure stopping anymore of their genocides.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Odd.. I thought it a common war strategy to take down your enemy&#8217;s command, control and communications infrastructure. I imagine there would be many benefits to denying your enemy the ability to disseminate information and propaganda electronically. And as Al Jazeera is widely perceived to have chosen to act as the &#8220;information ministry&#8221; for the fascist Islamist movement in general and Bin Laden&#8217;s network in particular. It would stand to reason that sooner or later Al Jazeera might find itself looking at a situation not unlike one that occurred in &#8216;98. In which a satellite guided bomb from a B-2 &#8220;accidentally&#8221; found its way into the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Which, coincidentally, occurred immediately after the Americans learned that the Chinese were providing the Serb military with logistical support.</p>

	<p>Considering what they could do if they chose to. And considering the fact that, as divided as the American public is about why they went to war, the general attitude of most of them is one of &#8220;Lets just take the leash off the military, let em do what they do best and end this thing. Then bring em home.&#8221;<br />
Far from getting indignant at the fact the idea of bombing AJ was tossed about &#8211; I&#8217;m rather surprised at the restraint shown so far by the fact they&#8217;re still on the air.</p>

	<p>And don&#8217;t think any concern for the opinion of Europeans or anyone else ways heavy on their decision making process. Paraphrasing here &#8211; But the attitude towards the complaining of foreigners (Europeans in particular) has been summed up for me as &#8220;Complain? Let em complain all they want. You figure the more energy they spend bitching about us &#8211; the less likely it is they&#8217;ll l fall back into their default mode of acting out their frustrations &#038; start killing each other off in obscene numbers again.. Naaah, better to have em hate on us than us have to waste any more blood and treasure stopping anymore of their genocides.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125650</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125650</guid>
		<description>engels: 1500? Feh, stuff for teenagers.  According to the Guardian, Tolkien did indeed &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/classics/0,6121,362922,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;say it&lt;/a&gt;, but rather dated the end of literature at 1100.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>engels: 1500? Feh, stuff for teenagers.  According to the Guardian, Tolkien did indeed <a href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/classics/0,6121,362922,00.html" rel="nofollow">say it</a>, but rather dated the end of literature at 1100.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125489</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125489</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;... rather assumes that Labour MPs bother attending the chamber, outside of voting&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Adjournment debates, for instance, are typically very sparsely attended. I don&#039;t think it&#039;d be hard to pick a suitable moment, so long as nobody got wind of what he was planning to do. Of course, Hansard may be edited after-the-fact (so that MPs can correct their misstatements and so forth -- compare, for instance, John Prescott as rendered in Hansard with his speeches as broadcast); I wonder whether (in practice) Johnson could be forced to withdraw the text from the published record?

An alternative would be to find a pliant peer to read it in the Lords; I don&#039;t know what the rules for proceedings in camera are but it&#039;d be harder to pass the motion for secret proceedings given there&#039;s no Labour majority there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>&#8230; rather assumes that Labour MPs bother attending the chamber, outside of voting</blockquote><br />
Adjournment debates, for instance, are typically very sparsely attended. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;d be hard to pick a suitable moment, so long as nobody got wind of what he was planning to do. Of course, Hansard may be edited after-the-fact (so that MPs can correct their misstatements and so forth&#8212;compare, for instance, John Prescott as rendered in Hansard with his speeches as broadcast); I wonder whether (in practice) Johnson could be forced to withdraw the text from the published record?</p>

	<p>An alternative would be to find a pliant peer to read it in the Lords; I don&#8217;t know what the rules for proceedings in camera are but it&#8217;d be harder to pass the motion for secret proceedings given there&#8217;s no Labour majority there.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125482</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125482</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“English literature only comes down to 1815. After that there are merely books.”

I’d heard that line attributed to Tolkien&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It can&#039;t have been Tolkien: he would have said 1500.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>&#8220;English literature only comes down to 1815. After that there are merely books.&#8221;</blockquote></p>

	<p>I&#8217;d heard that line attributed to Tolkien</p>

	<p>It can&#8217;t have been Tolkien: he would have said 1500.</p>
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		<title>By: IJ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125469</link>
		<dc:creator>IJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125469</guid>
		<description>The liberal stand against the war in Iraq was questioned in the press at the weekend.  The &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1651679,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; recalls the plot in the film &#039;Three Days of the Condor&#039;: the nation&#039;s government thinks it must do all it can to secure supplies of finite energy for its people.  In the absence of an enforceable world order, there are effectively no rules for some countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The liberal stand against the war in Iraq was questioned in the press at the weekend.  The <a HREF="http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1651679,00.html" rel="nofollow">article</a> recalls the plot in the film &#8216;Three Days of the Condor&#8217;: the nation&#8217;s government thinks it must do all it can to secure supplies of finite energy for its people.  In the absence of an enforceable world order, there are effectively no rules for some countries.</p>
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		<title>By: dr ngo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125332</link>
		<dc:creator>dr ngo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125332</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;dr ngo, I’d heard that line attributed to Tolkien, miserable old sod that he was.&lt;/i&gt;

That may well be, but it was published unattributed in &lt;i&gt;The Times&lt;/i&gt; (and not by Tolkien, whose name I would have recognized).  Has a nice ring to it, in any event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>dr ngo, I&#8217;d heard that line attributed to Tolkien, miserable old sod that he was.</i></p>

	<p>That may well be, but it was published unattributed in <i>The Times</i> (and not by Tolkien, whose name I would have recognized).  Has a nice ring to it, in any event.</p>
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		<title>By: Backword Dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125275</link>
		<dc:creator>Backword Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125275</guid>
		<description>To dc&#039;s point 9. Because the detention of an MP at Her Majesty&#039;s Pleasure might bring down the government, which Boris&#039;s colleagues would be extremely grateful for.

To Dan Hardie&#039;s point 10, that rather assumes that Labour MPs bother attending the chamber, outside of voting. There&#039;s not much evidence of that. Remember the hunt protest? The place was virtually empty. The cameras rarely show how empty the seats are. Also, the chamber isn&#039;t big enough to seat all 649 should they turn up at the same time. Some have to stand or sit on the steps in the really big debates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To dc&#8217;s point 9. Because the detention of an MP at Her Majesty&#8217;s Pleasure might bring down the government, which Boris&#8217;s colleagues would be extremely grateful for.</p>

	<p>To Dan Hardie&#8217;s point 10, that rather assumes that Labour MPs bother attending the chamber, outside of voting. There&#8217;s not much evidence of that. Remember the hunt protest? The place was virtually empty. The cameras rarely show how empty the seats are. Also, the chamber isn&#8217;t big enough to seat all 649 should they turn up at the same time. Some have to stand or sit on the steps in the really big debates.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Hardie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125273</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hardie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125273</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know which is worse, that &#039;I spy strangers!&#039; has gone, or that I didn&#039;t know and a kindly American had to tell me. And weren&#039;t they supposed to wear top hats while spying strangers? 

It reminds me of the Dwight MacDonald attack on the Church of England ditching the King James Bible: &#039;Yes, they didn&#039;t change &#039;Jesus wept&#039;. But I&#039;m sure there was strong support for &#039;Jesus burst into tears&#039;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know which is worse, that &#8216;I spy strangers!&#8217; has gone, or that I didn&#8217;t know and a kindly American had to tell me. And weren&#8217;t they supposed to wear top hats while spying strangers?</p>

	<p>It reminds me of the Dwight MacDonald attack on the Church of England ditching the King James Bible: &#8216;Yes, they didn&#8217;t change &#8216;Jesus wept&#8217;. But I&#8217;m sure there was strong support for &#8216;Jesus burst into tears&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125269</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125269</guid>
		<description>dr ngo, I&#039;d heard that line attributed to Tolkien, miserable old sod that he was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>dr ngo, I&#8217;d heard that line attributed to Tolkien, miserable old sod that he was.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125259</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 05:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125259</guid>
		<description>The Indy hints (albeit on precious little substance) that the &#039;bomb Al-J&#039; headline is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article329622.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;tip of the iceberg&lt;/a&gt;, as far as the forthcoming OSA trial is concerned.

I think the &#039;I am Spartacus&#039; approach is the best way to call Blair&#039;s bluff here. Either that, or the Peter Wright approach. (Funny to think of the pre-Web days, when people had to buy &lt;i&gt;Spycatcher&lt;/i&gt; in Australia...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Indy hints (albeit on precious little substance) that the &#8216;bomb Al-J&#8217; headline is the <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article329622.ece" rel="nofollow">tip of the iceberg</a>, as far as the forthcoming <span class="caps">OSA</span> trial is concerned.</p>

	<p>I think the &#8216;I am Spartacus&#8217; approach is the best way to call Blair&#8217;s bluff here. Either that, or the Peter Wright approach. (Funny to think of the pre-Web days, when people had to buy <i>Spycatcher</i> in Australia&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: dr ngo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125258</link>
		<dc:creator>dr ngo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 04:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125258</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But then, it has been all downhill since 1819, hasn’t it?&lt;/i&gt;

It has indeed, Mrs. Tipton, it has indeed.

One of my favorite memories from my days as a student in London (mid-1960s) arose during one of the routine disparagements, in the pages of &lt;i&gt;The Times&lt;/i&gt;, over the proposal to drop the Anglo-Saxon requirement for those reading English at either Oxford or Cambridge (I forget which), on the grounds that those studying modern literature had less need of A-S than of other subjects.  Amid the more or less reasoned, more or less detailed, analyses of this proposal there was one letter which read in its entirety (I quote from memory, alas):

&quot;English literature only comes down to 1815.  After that there are merely books.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But then, it has been all downhill since 1819, hasn&#8217;t it?</i></p>

	<p>It has indeed, Mrs. Tipton, it has indeed.</p>

	<p>One of my favorite memories from my days as a student in London (mid-1960s) arose during one of the routine disparagements, in the pages of <i>The Times</i>, over the proposal to drop the Anglo-Saxon requirement for those reading English at either Oxford or Cambridge (I forget which), on the grounds that those studying modern literature had less need of A-S than of other subjects.  Amid the more or less reasoned, more or less detailed, analyses of this proposal there was one letter which read in its entirety (I quote from memory, alas):</p>

	<p>&#8220;English literature only comes down to 1815.  After that there are merely books.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: pdf23ds</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125125</link>
		<dc:creator>pdf23ds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 22:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125125</guid>
		<description>8: There is the credibility problem with that approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>8: There is the credibility problem with that approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/11/26/boris-johnson-on-bombing-al-jazeera/comment-page-1/#comment-125121</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4067#comment-125121</guid>
		<description>Matt, your first para at No. 12 is, if correct, the most disappointing thing I have read all day. But then, it has been all downhill since 1819, hasn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Matt, your first para at No. 12 is, if correct, the most disappointing thing I have read all day. But then, it has been all downhill since 1819, hasn&#8217;t it?</p>
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