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	<title>Comments on: Domestic surveillance UK-style</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-132620</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2005 01:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-132620</guid>
		<description>Britons never have been free, they just had permission to act that way for a while. That permission is now being withdrawn by the government as inconvenient.

I don&#039;t see what all the complaining is about; have a revolution, establish the people as sovereign, run things your way, fine. But don&#039;t whinge (excellent word!) because the people you let run you are running you their way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Britons never have been free, they just had permission to act that way for a while. That permission is now being withdrawn by the government as inconvenient.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t see what all the complaining is about; have a revolution, establish the people as sovereign, run things your way, fine. But don&#8217;t whinge (excellent word!) because the people you let run you are running you their way.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-132499</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-132499</guid>
		<description>Admittedly, we are curiously ambivalent about guilt for motoring crimes in Britain but that is not a characteristic national trait. In fact, we (fortunately) endure an unusually low rate of traffic accident fatalities per head of population compared with almost all other OECD countries - the only close competitor is Sweden, which has a population of 9 million and a land area only a bit short of twice that of Britain. We evidently attach much weight to the intentions motivating personal behaviour as compared with the consequences: it apparently matters much less if you kill a group of children as a drunk driver than if you kill fewer as a paedophile.

Some in Britain have tried to make issue of the extent of public CCTV monitoring - we exceeded an estimated 4 million public CCTV cameras several years before 9/11. The cameras are widely accepted, perhaps because the implications were not widely appreciated and the cameras have become very inconspicuous. Casual observation and hearsay also suggest that few folk appreciate how trackable are the locations of the mobile phones which they regularly carry around even though the location of phones has featured as evidence in several high profile criminal trials.

On balance, public reaction to the Congestion Charge applied to motor vehicles in central London (which depends on similar technology to speed cameras) has been favourable despite the campaigns of some tabloids. The prospect of road pricing by satellite surveillance of all motor vehicles has been mooted without so far provoking appreciable adverse reaction. The popular claim to have been working late at the office will soon cease to function as an alibi for anything unless supported by vehicle tracking evidence.

Given the extent of public acceptance of privacy-invasion by all this monitoring, survelliance and tracking, I am a bit puzzled at the uproar about the proposals for ID cards with biometrics. Personally, I regard the threat to the confidentiality of personal medical records by a national database for the NHS a more serious issue. Given the surge in the incidence of STDs in recent years, I would suppose the loss of confidentiality for medical records could generate blackmailing opportunities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Admittedly, we are curiously ambivalent about guilt for motoring crimes in Britain but that is not a characteristic national trait. In fact, we (fortunately) endure an unusually low rate of traffic accident fatalities per head of population compared with almost all other <span class="caps">OECD</span> countries &#8211; the only close competitor is Sweden, which has a population of 9 million and a land area only a bit short of twice that of Britain. We evidently attach much weight to the intentions motivating personal behaviour as compared with the consequences: it apparently matters much less if you kill a group of children as a drunk driver than if you kill fewer as a paedophile.</p>

	<p>Some in Britain have tried to make issue of the extent of public <span class="caps">CCTV</span> monitoring &#8211; we exceeded an estimated 4 million public <span class="caps">CCTV</span> cameras several years before 9/11. The cameras are widely accepted, perhaps because the implications were not widely appreciated and the cameras have become very inconspicuous. Casual observation and hearsay also suggest that few folk appreciate how trackable are the locations of the mobile phones which they regularly carry around even though the location of phones has featured as evidence in several high profile criminal trials.</p>

	<p>On balance, public reaction to the Congestion Charge applied to motor vehicles in central London (which depends on similar technology to speed cameras) has been favourable despite the campaigns of some tabloids. The prospect of road pricing by satellite surveillance of all motor vehicles has been mooted without so far provoking appreciable adverse reaction. The popular claim to have been working late at the office will soon cease to function as an alibi for anything unless supported by vehicle tracking evidence.</p>

	<p>Given the extent of public acceptance of privacy-invasion by all this monitoring, survelliance and tracking, I am a bit puzzled at the uproar about the proposals for ID cards with biometrics. Personally, I regard the threat to the confidentiality of personal medical records by a national database for the <span class="caps">NHS</span> a more serious issue. Given the surge in the incidence of STDs in recent years, I would suppose the loss of confidentiality for medical records could generate blackmailing opportunities.</p>
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		<title>By: Simstim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-132353</link>
		<dc:creator>Simstim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-132353</guid>
		<description>Chris Lightfoot: it&#039;s because it&#039;s impinging on the British person&#039;s God-given right to speed.  All that  other stuff, that&#039;s only going to happen to &quot;the terrorists&quot; or other &quot;proper&quot; criminals.  This also accounts for the difference in acceptability between CCTV and speed cameras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Chris Lightfoot: it&#8217;s because it&#8217;s impinging on the British person&#8217;s God-given right to speed.  All that  other stuff, that&#8217;s only going to happen to &#8220;the terrorists&#8221; or other &#8220;proper&#8221; criminals.  This also accounts for the difference in acceptability between <span class="caps">CCTV</span> and speed cameras.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131892</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131892</guid>
		<description>In all this, perhaps two factors intrigue me the most.

For an ancient historic nation with one of the great traditions in libertarian writing and commitment - Magna Carta, John Locke, Adam Smith, John Wilkes, Tom Paine, Edmund Burke, JS Mill, Isiaih Berlin - we are now well on the way to being the most monitored, tracked, surveyed and officially tabbed, supposedly on Dr Goebbel&#039;s infamous rationale: Those who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear. Despite or possibly because of that, we now have a prison population at record levels and the largest per capita prison population in Western Europe:

&quot;More people are jailed in England and Wales than in any other western European country - and more, per capita, than Libya, Malaysia and Burma.&quot;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3059183.stm

Naturally, it swells my heart with patriotic fervour to know that we have proportionally more in prison than those beacons of libertarian democracy: Libya, Malaysia and Burma. Moreover, violent crime is still increasing steadily and relentlessly; although Siddiq Khan, the group leader of the London bombers of 7/7, had been previously identified and monitored by MI5, the internal security service, they discounted him as likely to pose a serious threat and dropped the surveillance. Rather like the recently proposed high-tech ID cards intended to preserve both security and our civil liberties, the heavy monitoring infrastructure evidently doesn&#039;t actually prevent terrorist outrages.

The second factor is that this state of affairs has been driven through by a government claiming to be left-centred and liberalising, committed to open, cleaner government and freedom of information about government as well as habitually given to denouncing the centralising and controlling agendas of preceding Thatcherite tendencies.

We might draw the appropriate logical conclusions from all the conjunctions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In all this, perhaps two factors intrigue me the most.</p>

	<p>For an ancient historic nation with one of the great traditions in libertarian writing and commitment &#8211; Magna Carta, John Locke, Adam Smith, John Wilkes, Tom Paine, Edmund Burke, <span class="caps">JS </span>Mill, Isiaih Berlin &#8211; we are now well on the way to being the most monitored, tracked, surveyed and officially tabbed, supposedly on Dr Goebbel&#8217;s infamous rationale: Those who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear. Despite or possibly because of that, we now have a prison population at record levels and the largest per capita prison population in Western Europe:</p>

	<p>&#8220;More people are jailed in England and Wales than in any other western European country &#8211; and more, per capita, than Libya, Malaysia and Burma.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3059183.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3059183.stm</a></p>

	<p>Naturally, it swells my heart with patriotic fervour to know that we have proportionally more in prison than those beacons of libertarian democracy: Libya, Malaysia and Burma. Moreover, violent crime is still increasing steadily and relentlessly; although Siddiq Khan, the group leader of the London bombers of 7/7, had been previously identified and monitored by <span class="caps">MI5</span>, the internal security service, they discounted him as likely to pose a serious threat and dropped the surveillance. Rather like the recently proposed high-tech ID cards intended to preserve both security and our civil liberties, the heavy monitoring infrastructure evidently doesn&#8217;t actually prevent terrorist outrages.</p>

	<p>The second factor is that this state of affairs has been driven through by a government claiming to be left-centred and liberalising, committed to open, cleaner government and freedom of information about government as well as habitually given to denouncing the centralising and controlling agendas of preceding Thatcherite tendencies.</p>

	<p>We might draw the appropriate logical conclusions from all the conjunctions.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131883</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131883</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Bye Bye Freedom&lt;/strong&gt;

As seen in The Independent and Crooked Timber yesterday, The Telegraph reports on the scheme to monitor the movements of each and every car in the country. A massive increase in the number of roadside cameras able to identify and</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Bye Bye Freedom</strong></p>

	<p>As seen in The Independent and Crooked Timber yesterday, The Telegraph reports on the scheme to monitor the movements of each and every car in the country. A massive increase in the number of roadside cameras able to identify and</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Dodsworth</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131845</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Dodsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131845</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Doctors fear the computerisation of medical records could threaten patient confidentiality.&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s been nearly fifteen years since I worked for the NHS, but the word on the street back then was that GPs fear the computerisation of medical records because their funding depends on how many patients they have registered. A full-on computerised patient record system would cost them money by forcing them to clean up inactive and duplicate records. 

I was working in a hospital, though - and it appears that hospitals and GPs are natural enemies.

(Note also that there were plans for a full-on computerised patient record system fifteen years ago, but it still hasn&#039;t materialized. This is because relatively few people want it and no one wants to pay for it. And because the NHS Information Services Committee of the time were both largely powerless and largely useless, of course.)

On the other hand, everyone involved seemed to be aware of at least some privacy issues. Apparently, some health and life insurance companies will pay cash with no questions asked for medical records.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Doctors fear the computerisation of medical records could threaten patient confidentiality.</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s been nearly fifteen years since I worked for the <span class="caps">NHS</span>, but the word on the street back then was that GPs fear the computerisation of medical records because their funding depends on how many patients they have registered. A full-on computerised patient record system would cost them money by forcing them to clean up inactive and duplicate records.</p>

	<p>I was working in a hospital, though &#8211; and it appears that hospitals and GPs are natural enemies.</p>

	<p>(Note also that there were plans for a full-on computerised patient record system fifteen years ago, but it still hasn&#8217;t materialized. This is because relatively few people want it and no one wants to pay for it. And because the <span class="caps">NHS </span>Information Services Committee of the time were both largely powerless and largely useless, of course.)</p>

	<p>On the other hand, everyone involved seemed to be aware of at least some privacy issues. Apparently, some health and life insurance companies will pay cash with no questions asked for medical records.</p>
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		<title>By: Bro. Bartleby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131844</link>
		<dc:creator>Bro. Bartleby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131844</guid>
		<description>It gets worse?
It will get better.
When the daycare centers get the tots computer savvy, then the elementary teachers taking charge with mandatory student blogs, and soon it will all seem sort of natural to tap out your every thought on the keyboard, then so it will go into middle school ...
And then?
You doctor will call up YOUR blog, do a few searches to discover all your ailments and complaints, then go about with the treatment; so too your psychiatrist will search for any weirdness in your postings; your banker will keep tabs on your spending habits; your lawyer will search for potential lawsuit material; and your mother will keep tabs on your marriage ... and will be emailing your doctor, your psychiatrist, your banker, your lawyer, your wife ... just to point out the errata and to set the record straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It gets worse?<br />
It will get better.<br />
When the daycare centers get the tots computer savvy, then the elementary teachers taking charge with mandatory student blogs, and soon it will all seem sort of natural to tap out your every thought on the keyboard, then so it will go into middle school &#8230;<br />
And then?<br />
You doctor will call up <span class="caps">YOUR</span> blog, do a few searches to discover all your ailments and complaints, then go about with the treatment; so too your psychiatrist will search for any weirdness in your postings; your banker will keep tabs on your spending habits; your lawyer will search for potential lawsuit material; and your mother will keep tabs on your marriage &#8230; and will be emailing your doctor, your psychiatrist, your banker, your lawyer, your wife &#8230; just to point out the errata and to set the record straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131838</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131838</guid>
		<description>It gets worse.

Possibly because I no longer own and drive a car, I am less concerned about the tracking of all motor vehicle movements than I am about the threat to the confidentiality of personal medical records from the massive National Health Service (NHS) project now underway to spend £6.2 billions creating a national computer database of the records:

&quot;Doctors fear the computerisation of medical records could threaten patient confidentiality. In future records will be stored on a national database, which will allow staff to access information wherever someone is treated. However, doctors are concerned the system, part of the NHS&#039;s £6.2bn IT upgrade, could be open to abuse. . . &quot; 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4633213.stm

Personally, I am of an age when I have no special cause to worry unduly about who knows the details of my medical history but that is not true of everyone. It seems to me probable that women are particularly vunerable to blackmail. My GP - or any hospital consultant I might visit - has the great convenience of being able to call up my medical records on screen at a mouse click. Doubtless, the records are password protected but I once asked my GP if he knew where the records are actually located and he had no idea.

Dozens of computer developers will likely be working to create the national database and they will probably find it possible to access personal records. I am quite willing to believe that there are valuable benefits of convenience in having a comprehensive national database of personal medical records accessible by any number of interested parties but how do so many other countries manage healthcare without them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It gets worse.</p>

	<p>Possibly because I no longer own and drive a car, I am less concerned about the tracking of all motor vehicle movements than I am about the threat to the confidentiality of personal medical records from the massive National Health Service (NHS) project now underway to spend &#163;6.2 billions creating a national computer database of the records:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Doctors fear the computerisation of medical records could threaten patient confidentiality. In future records will be stored on a national database, which will allow staff to access information wherever someone is treated. However, doctors are concerned the system, part of the <span class="caps">NHS</span>&#8217;s &#163;6.2bn IT upgrade, could be open to abuse. . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4633213.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4633213.stm</a></p>

	<p>Personally, I am of an age when I have no special cause to worry unduly about who knows the details of my medical history but that is not true of everyone. It seems to me probable that women are particularly vunerable to blackmail. My <span class="caps">GP </span>- or any hospital consultant I might visit &#8211; has the great convenience of being able to call up my medical records on screen at a mouse click. Doubtless, the records are password protected but I once asked my GP if he knew where the records are actually located and he had no idea.</p>

	<p>Dozens of computer developers will likely be working to create the national database and they will probably find it possible to access personal records. I am quite willing to believe that there are valuable benefits of convenience in having a comprehensive national database of personal medical records accessible by any number of interested parties but how do so many other countries manage healthcare without them?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Jones (really)</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131824</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Jones (really)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 21:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131824</guid>
		<description>It sounds appalling to me but isn&#039;t the Independent headline a little misleading? 

It makes it sound like, starting January 1st, every car journey in GB will be tracked beginnig to end. I bet this is no where near likely. Are there already CCTVs pointed at every cottage on the moor, every shack in the forest, every cul-de-sac in suburbia? If so, why do they need an agreement with the private business using the cameras? The infrastructure isn&#039;t there yet by a long shot (not that it won&#039;t be sometime in the future.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It sounds appalling to me but isn&#8217;t the Independent headline a little misleading?</p>

	<p>It makes it sound like, starting January 1st, every car journey in GB will be tracked beginnig to end. I bet this is no where near likely. Are there already <span class="caps">CCT</span>Vs pointed at every cottage on the moor, every shack in the forest, every cul-de-sac in suburbia? If so, why do they need an agreement with the private business using the cameras? The infrastructure isn&#8217;t there yet by a long shot (not that it won&#8217;t be sometime in the future.)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131815</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131815</guid>
		<description>One of the funny things about the UK is how radically different a debate about privacy becomes when people&#039;s motor cars are introduced. For instance, &lt;a href=&quot;http://ex-parrot.com/~chris/wwwitter/20040702-spot_the_difference.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;compare editorials from The Sun&lt;/a&gt; on the subjects of vehicle tracking and on the government&#039;s ID card proposals, which would record details of every routine identity check in a centralised database:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Once every car, van, lorry and motorbike in the land is linked by satellite to a Big Brother computer, they&#039;ve got us.

They can track us, control us, fine us and snoop on us.

This is still a free country. Let&#039;s keep it that way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
vs
&lt;blockquote&gt;IDENTITY cards are an excellent idea but they will be pointless if they&#039;re watered down.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Shurely shome mishtake?

Now, it&#039;d be an error to mistake Sun editorials for public opinion, but you can see the same sort of contrast in straw polls on the BBC, for instance.

I&#039;d love to know why tracking people&#039;s every move is OK, &lt;em&gt;right up to the point when they get in a car&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One of the funny things about the UK is how radically different a debate about privacy becomes when people&#8217;s motor cars are introduced. For instance, <a href="http://ex-parrot.com/~chris/wwwitter/20040702-spot_the_difference.html" rel="nofollow">compare editorials from The Sun</a> on the subjects of vehicle tracking and on the government&#8217;s ID card proposals, which would record details of every routine identity check in a centralised database:<br />
<blockquote>Once every car, van, lorry and motorbike in the land is linked by satellite to a Big Brother computer, they&#8217;ve got us.</blockquote></p>

	<p>They can track us, control us, fine us and snoop on us.</p>

	<p>This is still a free country. Let&#8217;s keep it that way.<br />
vs<br />
<blockquote><span class="caps">IDENTITY</span> cards are an excellent idea but they will be pointless if they&#8217;re watered down.</blockquote></p>

	<p>Shurely shome mishtake?</p>

	<p>Now, it&#8217;d be an error to mistake Sun editorials for public opinion, but you can see the same sort of contrast in straw polls on the <span class="caps">BBC</span>, for instance.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;d love to know why tracking people&#8217;s every move is OK, <em>right up to the point when they get in a car</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Bro. Bartleby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131811</link>
		<dc:creator>Bro. Bartleby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131811</guid>
		<description>Got a cell phone? You then are already carrying around a GPS that if so inclinded, NSA can track your every movement. Oh yeah, for about $15 a month, you too can track your son or daughter or husband or wife when they are carrying their cell phone. Ahh, to return to Tiananmen Square when surveillance was so ... was so pure and uncomplicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Got a cell phone? You then are already carrying around a <span class="caps">GPS</span> that if so inclinded, <span class="caps">NSA</span> can track your every movement. Oh yeah, for about $15 a month, you too can track your son or daughter or husband or wife when they are carrying their cell phone. Ahh, to return to Tiananmen Square when surveillance was so &#8230; was so pure and uncomplicated.</p>
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		<title>By: bellatrys</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131810</link>
		<dc:creator>bellatrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 19:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131810</guid>
		<description>Because the EZ Pass toll paying system does, yes, record where you are when you go through a toll on that system, and deduct even if you would rather pay cash on that occasions, they provide a foil packet to cover the transmitter.

Now, if you&#039;re paranoid, you might worry about this being used to track your out-of-state movements and cover it for that reason, too, not just the financial ones.

If you&#039;re *really* paranoid, like me, you might at least wonder if the mylar actually blocks the signal, or just changes it to not deduct, while still recording your vehicle&#039;s passage through the checkpoint...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Because the <span class="caps">EZ </span>Pass toll paying system does, yes, record where you are when you go through a toll on that system, and deduct even if you would rather pay cash on that occasions, they provide a foil packet to cover the transmitter.</p>

	<p>Now, if you&#8217;re paranoid, you might worry about this being used to track your out-of-state movements and cover it for that reason, too, not just the financial ones.</p>

	<p>If you&#8217;re <strong>really</strong> paranoid, like me, you might at least wonder if the mylar actually blocks the signal, or just changes it to not deduct, while still recording your vehicle&#8217;s passage through the checkpoint&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: serial catowner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131796</link>
		<dc:creator>serial catowner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131796</guid>
		<description>Well, maybe you&#039;d like some sugar with that pill.  In the U.S. the trucking companies already use GPS and onboard computers to monitor everything the driver does.  My guess is that in just a few years you will be offered a lower rate on car insurance if you agree to onboard monitoring of your driving.

Driving ain&#039;t going to be what it used to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, maybe you&#8217;d like some sugar with that pill.  In the U.S. the trucking companies already use <span class="caps">GPS</span> and onboard computers to monitor everything the driver does.  My guess is that in just a few years you will be offered a lower rate on car insurance if you agree to onboard monitoring of your driving.</p>

	<p>Driving ain&#8217;t going to be what it used to.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bro. Bartleby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131791</link>
		<dc:creator>Bro. Bartleby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131791</guid>
		<description>And I recall watching CNN when the Chinese pulled their plug during the Tiananmen Square protests, but prior to the pulling of the plug, the CNN camera pointed to some of the surveillance cameras atop tall poles in the square, and we watching the scene on televisions in America were shaking our heads -- imagine, cameras spying on their own citizens! Certainly the icon of communism! And today? We in America are surrounded by surveillance cameras, recording our every movement, yet the shock of 1989 is strangely absent. It is amazing what we will give up for the promise of security.
Bro. Bartleby</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And I recall watching <span class="caps">CNN</span> when the Chinese pulled their plug during the Tiananmen Square protests, but prior to the pulling of the plug, the <span class="caps">CNN</span> camera pointed to some of the surveillance cameras atop tall poles in the square, and we watching the scene on televisions in America were shaking our heads&#8212;imagine, cameras spying on their own citizens! Certainly the icon of communism! And today? We in America are surrounded by surveillance cameras, recording our every movement, yet the shock of 1989 is strangely absent. It is amazing what we will give up for the promise of security.<br />
Bro. Bartleby</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/comment-page-1/#comment-131773</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2005/12/22/domestic-surveillance-uk-style/#comment-131773</guid>
		<description>Banning opposition party symbols is different from &lt;i&gt;recording&lt;/i&gt; license plates. A better analogy would would be requirement to register cars - or firearms for that matter. 

Tim MCVeigh, was driving car without a license because he felt that registering a car was an unreasonable burden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Banning opposition party symbols is different from <i>recording</i> license plates. A better analogy would would be requirement to register cars &#8211; or firearms for that matter.</p>

	<p>Tim MCVeigh, was driving car without a license because he felt that registering a car was an unreasonable burden.</p>
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