Comments on: St Bob, ahead of the curve http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:13:42 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Bro. Ed, the Mad Monk http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-139427 Bro. Ed, the Mad Monk Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:43:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-139427 What do you expect from a religion created by a committee? (Google 'Council of Nicea'). What do you expect from a religion created by a committee? (Google ‘Council of Nicea’).

]]> By: JoséAngel http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-138627 JoséAngel Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:33:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-138627 St Bob, always ahead. From the same song: "A push of the button And a shot the world wide And you never ask questions When God's on your side" Such questions as "who's REALLY got weapons of mass destruction", I guess... St Bob, always ahead. From the same song:

“A push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God’s on your side”

Such questions as “who’s REALLY got weapons of mass destruction”, I guess…

]]> By: Casey http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-138251 Casey Sat, 14 Jan 2006 03:17:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-138251 Theres a great Borges short story "Three Versions of Judas" that has a scholar posit at the end that Judas was the real secret savior as his suffering disgrace and humiliation was actually greater as the betrayer of Jesus then Jesus himself on the cross. The scholar announces this to the world and is ignored which confirms to him that his idea is right as god means for it to be kept secret. The scholar then goes mad and kills himself. Theres a great Borges short story “Three Versions of Judas” that has a scholar posit at the end that Judas was the real secret savior as his suffering disgrace and humiliation was actually greater as the betrayer of Jesus then Jesus himself on the cross. The scholar announces this to the world and is ignored which confirms to him that his idea is right as god means for it to be kept secret. The scholar then goes mad and kills himself.

]]> By: radek http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-138139 radek Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:39:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-138139 To continue with the literary connections, this also pops up in Catcher In the Rye where Holden Caufield gets into an argument with some nuns and says that "Jesus wouldn't do that to ol' Judas" (i.e. send him to hell). Or something like that. To continue with the literary connections, this also pops up in Catcher In the Rye where Holden Caufield gets into an argument with some nuns and says that “Jesus wouldn’t do that to ol’ Judas” (i.e. send him to hell). Or something like that.

]]> By: Bro. Bartleby http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137915 Bro. Bartleby Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:17:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137915 Again, know your translators before you place all eternity into the translator's words. If only my grandparents knew (and all those who thought the King James Bible dropped out of the heavens, intact and inerrant) that it was Lancelot Andrews and his all too human company of translators who were responsible for endowing the KJV with the royal lexicon ... to the delight of James I. Again, know your translators before you place all eternity into the translator’s words. If only my grandparents knew (and all those who thought the King James Bible dropped out of the heavens, intact and inerrant) that it was Lancelot Andrews and his all too human company of translators who were responsible for endowing the KJV with the royal lexicon … to the delight of James I.

]]> By: Maynard Handley http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137910 Maynard Handley Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:26:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137910 I tell you, it's all the damn _Da Vinci Code_'s fault. Now the Vatican has to wiggle double-quick to try to create enough smoke and confusion to stop people remembering all the stuff that was said in there about Jesus not being divine. I tell you, if they'd just ordered a fatwa against Dan Brown they'd be a lot better off. I tell you, it’s all the damn Da Vinci Code’s fault. Now the Vatican has to wiggle double-quick to try to create enough smoke and confusion to stop people remembering all the stuff that was said in there about Jesus not being divine.

I tell you, if they’d just ordered a fatwa against Dan Brown they’d be a lot better off.

]]> By: wcw http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137905 wcw Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:46:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137905 The song for which you're looking is "Stand Up For Judas," written by Leon Rosselson. You probably heard the Dick Gaughan version, and if you heard the original instead, find a way to hear Gaughan's. It is indeed fabulous, deserving of the same worldwide yuletide overexposure that "Silent Night" currently enjoys. Gaughan's treatment is the atheist anthem I know we've all pined for lo these many cold years. "...Now Jesus brought division where none had been before Not the slaves against their masters but the poor against the poor Set son to rise up against father, and brother to fight against brother For he that is not with me is against me, was his teaching Said Jesus, I am the answer You unbelievers shall burn forever, shall die in your sins Not sheep and goats, said Judas, But together we may dare Shake off the chains of misery we share.." My kind of carol. The song for which you’re looking is “Stand Up For Judas,” written by Leon Rosselson. You probably heard the Dick Gaughan version, and if you heard the original instead, find a way to hear Gaughan’s. It is indeed fabulous, deserving of the same worldwide yuletide overexposure that “Silent Night” currently enjoys. Gaughan’s treatment is the atheist anthem I know we’ve all pined for lo these many cold years.

“…Now Jesus brought division where none had been before
Not the slaves against their masters but the poor against the poor
Set son to rise up against father, and brother to fight against brother
For he that is not with me is against me, was his teaching
Said Jesus, I am the answer
You unbelievers shall burn forever, shall die in your sins
Not sheep and goats, said Judas, But together we may dare
Shake off the chains of misery we share..”

My kind of carol.

]]> By: Barry Freed http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137904 Barry Freed Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:45:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137904 Peter Ramus: Thank you very much. I heard that song on Bob Fass' inimitable " Radio Unnameable" on NY's Pacifica station WBAI and found it so stirring it has haunted me ever since. Should we ever meet I owe you a beer. Peter Ramus: Thank you very much. I heard that song on Bob Fass’ inimitable ” Radio Unnameable” on NY’s Pacifica station WBAI and found it so stirring it has haunted me ever since. Should we ever meet I owe you a beer.

]]> By: Dan Nexon http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137901 Dan Nexon Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:33:05 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137901 On how to reconcile God's omnipotence with evil, see Augustine's City of God (or, for that matter, the opening of The Silmarillion, which dramatizes - more or less - the same argument). On how to reconcile God’s omnipotence with evil, see Augustine’s City of God (or, for that matter, the opening of The Silmarillion, which dramatizes – more or less – the same argument).

]]> By: peter ramus http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137899 peter ramus Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:29:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137899 <a href="http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/12/330490.shtml#206357" rel="nofollow">Stand up for Judas</a> Stand up for Judas

]]> By: Kenny Easwaran http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137894 Kenny Easwaran Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:19:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137894 I see I've been beaten to The Last Temptation of Christ, and I didn't know the Borges, but this theme is also prominent in Umberto Eco's The Island of the Day Before. So it's been a common heresy, though I guess it might not be heresy any more. I see I’ve been beaten to The Last Temptation of Christ, and I didn’t know the Borges, but this theme is also prominent in Umberto Eco’s The Island of the Day Before. So it’s been a common heresy, though I guess it might not be heresy any more.

]]> By: Barry Freed http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137888 Barry Freed Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:29:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137888 <i>A difference?</i> Clearly. The latter is of a piece with the kenotic <i>telos</i> of the Passion (and of the Incarnation as well), foreshadowing it. whereas the former has no such depth and is rather more consistent with hatred and persecution of the Jews. I remember hearing a rabble-rousing Irish folk song [NB Kieran: is this redundant? ;-) ]in which the singer declares his alleigence with Judas over and against those who would compromise in making peace with the opressors. It was great, does anyone know the name of the tune? A difference?

Clearly. The latter is of a piece with the kenotic telos of the Passion (and of the Incarnation as well), foreshadowing it. whereas the former has no such depth and is rather more consistent with hatred and persecution of the Jews.

I remember hearing a rabble-rousing Irish folk song [NB Kieran: is this redundant? ;-) ]in which the singer declares his alleigence with Judas over and against those who would compromise in making peace with the opressors. It was great, does anyone know the name of the tune?

]]> By: Bro. Bartleby http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137887 Bro. Bartleby Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:02:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137887 Of interest is that both Dylan and the Vatican choose the traditional translations of the Greek paradidomi as 'betrayed' whereas the same word is used far more often in scripture as 'deliver up' or 'give over'. "And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again." "And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again." A difference? Of interest is that both Dylan and the Vatican choose the traditional translations of the Greek paradidomi as ‘betrayed’ whereas the same word is used far more often in scripture as ‘deliver up’ or ‘give over’.

“And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.”

“And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.”

A difference?

]]> By: Mike http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137885 Mike Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:28:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137885 <i>So, the Times has “gone downhill” by simply repeating words written and published 6 years ago.</i> Certainly has, if its (presumably University-educated) writers have to crib semi-literate swill from Los Angeles. So, the Times has “gone downhill” by simply repeating words written and published 6 years ago.

Certainly has, if its (presumably University-educated) writers have to crib semi-literate swill from Los Angeles.

]]> By: Barry Freed http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-137884 Barry Freed Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:26:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/12/st-bob-ahead-of-the-curve/#comment-137884 Has the Church embraced radical Protestant dialectical neo-orthodoxy? There is a very long footnote in Karl Barth's <i>magnum opus</i>, the"Church Dogmatics," where he posits as much, placing Judas as the very pivot of Chrirstian (Barth would say World) <i>Heilsgeschicte</i>. I distinctly recall the radical death-of-God theologian and mad prophet Thomas JJ Altizer (with whom I had the great good fortune of studying some time ago) saying that he regarded that footnote as the very heart of the "Church Dogmatics." Has the Church embraced radical Protestant dialectical neo-orthodoxy? There is a very long footnote in Karl Barth’s magnum opus, the”Church Dogmatics,” where he posits as much, placing Judas as the very pivot of Chrirstian
(Barth would say World) Heilsgeschicte. I distinctly recall the radical death-of-God theologian and mad prophet Thomas JJ Altizer (with whom I had the great good fortune of studying some time ago) saying that he regarded that footnote as the very heart of the “Church Dogmatics.”

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