Comments on: The Army and Vietnam, part 2 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 26 May 2012 21:58:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: serial catowner http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-141267 serial catowner Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:17:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-141267 Let's try connecting a few dots: James Woolsey (former CIA director)-Ahmad Chalabi (his client)-SCIRI- Badr Militia- Iran. Or, you could wait 50 years until the documents are declassified. Let’s try connecting a few dots: James Woolsey (former CIA director)-Ahmad Chalabi (his client)-SCIRI- Badr Militia- Iran.

Or, you could wait 50 years until the documents are declassified.

]]> By: Zephania http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-141087 Zephania Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:40:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-141087 I have no evidence to support the contention that they are or are not. Let us wait for the next George Crile (or equivalent) book. I have no evidence to support the contention that they are or are not. Let us wait for the next George Crile (or equivalent) book.

]]> By: Sebastian holsclaw http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-141078 Sebastian holsclaw Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:39:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-141078 "The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read another branch of the CIA) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic." That still isn't clear to me. Are you saying that the CIA funded the mujahideen in Afghanistan to defeat the Soviets, and that the CIA is either now, or has recently funded the mujahideen for the purpose of creating a West vs. Islam dialectic? “The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read another branch of the CIA) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic.”

That still isn’t clear to me. Are you saying that the CIA funded the mujahideen in Afghanistan to defeat the Soviets, and that the CIA is either now, or has recently funded the mujahideen for the purpose of creating a West vs. Islam dialectic?

]]> By: Zephania http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-141044 Zephania Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:27:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-141044 ... and from wikipedia "<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilson_%28politician%29" rel="nofollow">Wilson returned to public attention in 2002 with the publication of Charlie Wilson's War: The Extraordinary Story of the Largest Covert Operation in History, by George Crile. In this book, Crile argued that the actions of Wilson, as well as CIA agent Gust Avrakotos, were chiefly responsible with funding the mujahideen and thus they were vital players in the downfall of the Soviet Union. All the weapons and training were subsequently used towards a civil war among the competing Afghan warlords. This civil war led to the rise of the Taliban and Al Qaeda camps which link to the events of September 11, 2001 attacks and the current war in Iraq. Based on the book by George Crile, a movie of the same name, starring Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts, is reportedly in the works.</a>" … and from wikipedia “Wilson returned to public attention in 2002 with the publication of Charlie Wilson’s War: The Extraordinary Story of the Largest Covert Operation in History, by George Crile. In this book, Crile argued that the actions of Wilson, as well as CIA agent Gust Avrakotos, were chiefly responsible with funding the mujahideen and thus they were vital players in the downfall of the Soviet Union. All the weapons and training were subsequently used towards a civil war among the competing Afghan warlords. This civil war led to the rise of the Taliban and Al Qaeda camps which link to the events of September 11, 2001 attacks and the current war in Iraq.

Based on the book by George Crile, a movie of the same name, starring Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts, is reportedly in the works.”

]]> By: Zephania http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-141043 Zephania Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:24:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-141043 "<i>Sorry, I’m not totally clear on which bogus group of terrorists the CIA is funding. Could you clarify?</i>" Try "Charlie Wilson's War: The Extraordinary Story of the largest Covert Operation in History" by George Crile. “Sorry, I’m not totally clear on which bogus group of terrorists the CIA is funding. Could you clarify?”

Try “Charlie Wilson’s War: The Extraordinary Story of the largest Covert Operation in History” by George Crile.

]]> By: Sebastian Holsclaw http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140824 Sebastian Holsclaw Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:04:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140824 "Very much agree. The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read another branch of the CIA) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic." Sorry, I'm not totally clear on which bogus group of terrorists the CIA is funding. Could you clarify? “Very much agree. The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read another branch of the CIA) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic.”

Sorry, I’m not totally clear on which bogus group of terrorists the CIA is funding. Could you clarify?

]]> By: Zephania http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140482 Zephania Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:07:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140482 "<i>The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is much closer to </i>[that of] <i>the Iraq.</i>" Very much agree. The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read _another branch of the CIA_) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic. The latter process has been gathering steam ever since the demise of the Soviet Union and the embrace of communist China. “The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is much closer to [that of] the Iraq.”

Very much agree. The CIA in both cases are funding a bogus group of terrorists (read another branch of the CIA) in order to replace the capitalist vs communist dialectic with a West vs Islam dialectic. The latter process has been gathering steam ever since the demise of the Soviet Union and the embrace of communist China.

]]> By: Danny Yee http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140304 Danny Yee Sat, 21 Jan 2006 01:53:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140304 One hopes that most people in the NYPD can speak New Yorkese, whereas only a tiny fraction off the Marines seem to be able to speak Arabic... One hopes that most people in the NYPD can speak New Yorkese, whereas only a tiny fraction off the Marines seem to be able to speak Arabic…

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140295 Barry Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:00:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140295 Bartelby, re-using BS doesn't make it smell better. Bartelby, re-using BS doesn’t make it smell better.

]]> By: john cook http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140275 john cook Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:08:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140275 Looks like the 70's again IMPORTANT .. pass it along ... Quote from Bush in 2004 -- "A wiretap requires a court order," President Bush declared in a statement in 2004. He added, "When we're talking about chasing down terriorists, we're talking about getting a court order when we do so. It's important for our fellow citizens to understand [that] constitutional guarantees are in place... because we value the Constitution." Looks like the 70’s again

IMPORTANT .. pass it along …

Quote from Bush in 2004—
“A wiretap requires a court order,” President Bush declared in a statement in 2004. He added, “When we’re talking about chasing down terriorists, we’re talking about getting a court order when we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand [that] constitutional guarantees are in place… because we value the Constitution.”

]]> By: chew2 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140265 chew2 Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:15:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140265 Vietnam and Mao are the wrong place to look for lessons. The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is much closer to the Iraq. Unfortunately not a lot has been written about that war, at least in English. There you had 100,000 outnumbered Soviet troops, plus an Afghan army and secret police fighting a disparate and disunited group of guerillas and tribal warlords. From what little I've read, the guerillas adopted similar tactics of assasination and terrorism against the "puppet" regime, as well ambushing the Soviet military convoys. There was no unifying ideology as in Vietnam. The society was tribal as in Iraq. Vietnam and Mao are the wrong place to look for lessons.

The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is much closer to the Iraq. Unfortunately not a lot has been written about that war, at least in English.

There you had 100,000 outnumbered Soviet troops, plus an Afghan army and secret police fighting a disparate and disunited group of guerillas and tribal warlords. From what little I’ve read, the guerillas adopted similar tactics of assasination and terrorism against the “puppet” regime, as well ambushing the Soviet military convoys. There was no unifying ideology as in Vietnam. The society was tribal as in Iraq.

]]> By: Bro. Bartleby http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140257 Bro. Bartleby Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:23:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140257 Today: This just in from Iraq, from a US Army blogger: "January 20, 2006 It wasn’t too bad. Chicken Cordon Bleu with Rice Pilaf and Green Beans. Had some milk to keep my bones and teeth strong. ... There’s nothing happening in the IZ at 0500 in the morning, unless you want to be the only one on the street. Lunch at the hotel wasn’t as good as breakfast. I was hoping for something better. ... For some reason, I always hear gunfire in the IZ. I hardly ever hear it on the FOB or at Abu Ghraib. It’s only when we're at the IZ. I’ve been told that it from the guys at the range but I have my doubts. I have yet to see any combat here, although I’m not hoping for it. Well, maybe if I survived and no one got hurt. Just so I could say that I was in combat. I’ll have to tell everyone back home I went to a combat zone and never saw combat. It always happened somewhere else." Back then: Apocalypse Now Willard: "Charlie didn't get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death, or victory." Today:
This just in from Iraq, from a US Army blogger:
“January 20, 2006
It wasn’t too bad. Chicken Cordon Bleu with Rice Pilaf and Green Beans. Had some milk to keep my bones and teeth strong. … There’s nothing happening in the IZ at 0500 in the morning, unless you want to be the only one on the street. Lunch at the hotel wasn’t as good as breakfast. I was hoping for something better.
…
For some reason, I always hear gunfire in the IZ. I hardly ever hear it on the FOB or at Abu Ghraib. It’s only when we’re at the IZ. I’ve been told that it from the guys at the range but I have my doubts. I have yet to see any combat here, although I’m not hoping for it. Well, maybe if I survived and no one got hurt. Just so I could say that I was in combat. I’ll have to tell everyone back home I went to a combat zone and never saw combat. It always happened somewhere else.”

Back then:
Apocalypse Now
Willard: “Charlie didn’t get much USO. He was dug in too deep or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home: death, or victory.”

]]> By: Bro. Bartleby http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140255 Bro. Bartleby Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:10:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140255 Hey, great, I can reuse a post from "Shadows and Fog": When the bad guys take up the tactics of a common criminal, then ‘modern warfare’ is no different than cops and robbers. The ‘problem’ that the US military faces in Iraq is the exact same problem every cop in the world faces: a single bad guy can create havoc in a town or city and even a hundred cops can’t catch him. Most criminals are caught by chance, not by an orchestrated police offensive, or even by ten thousand police marching through the city. The Marines can comb Fallujah just as the NYPD can comb NYC for a single bad guy, and you already know that the NYPD most likely will never find the bad guy, so why the surprise that Marines can’t find a bad guy, not in familiar NYC, but in a distant foreign land. Hey, great, I can reuse a post from “Shadows and Fog”:

When the bad guys take up the tactics of a common criminal, then ‘modern warfare’ is no different than cops and robbers. The ‘problem’ that the US military faces in Iraq is the exact same problem every cop in the world faces: a single bad guy can create havoc in a town or city and even a hundred cops can’t catch him. Most criminals are caught by chance, not by an orchestrated police offensive, or even by ten thousand police marching through the city. The Marines can comb Fallujah just as the NYPD can comb NYC for a single bad guy, and you already know that the NYPD most likely will never find the bad guy, so why the surprise that Marines can’t find a bad guy, not in familiar NYC, but in a distant foreign land.

]]> By: soru http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-140233 soru Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:22:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/20/the-army-and-vietnam-part-2/#comment-140233 textbook stuff. soru textbook stuff.

soru

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