Comments on: An ounce of inefficiency http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 20 Mar 2010 08:46:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: hirvi http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-4/#comment-141868 hirvi Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:46:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141868 "However, the introduction of the Euro has made life a little more inefficent in places like the Netherlands, where the smallest guilder-cent coins had been discontinued and the total rounded up or down" Nick: I don't know what happens in NL, but we have never had 1 or 2-cent coins at all (except in collectors' packs) and everyone I know is pleased not to have worthless coins in his pocket. We see this as efficiency, not inefficiency. Btw, the 'rounding' isn't quite what it looks. If you go in a supermarket and buy 20 items, it's the end-price that's rounded, not the price of every item - and the end-price is only rounded if you pay cash: if you pay by card, you pay the exact amount. “However, the introduction of the Euro has made life a little more inefficent in places like the Netherlands, where the smallest guilder-cent coins had been discontinued and the total rounded up or down”

Nick: I don’t know what happens in NL, but we have never had 1 or 2-cent coins at all (except in collectors’ packs) and everyone I know is pleased not to have worthless coins in his pocket. We see this as efficiency, not inefficiency.

Btw, the ‘rounding’ isn’t quite what it looks. If you go in a supermarket and buy 20 items, it’s the end-price that’s rounded, not the price of every item – and the end-price is only rounded if you pay cash: if you pay by card, you pay the exact amount.

]]> By: tom brandt http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-4/#comment-141852 tom brandt Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:43:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141852 John, I am a software developer with clients who supply products to large chains like Target. For many (not all) items, my clients pre-tag the packages with the retail price. John,
I am a software developer with clients who supply products to large chains like Target. For many (not all) items, my clients pre-tag the packages with the retail price.

]]> By: perianwyr http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-4/#comment-141851 perianwyr Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:35:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141851 <i>Miles, kilometers, the distance stays the same doesn’t it?</i> Converting from cm to mm is a mere jump of a decimal point, whereas converting from feet to inches requires an actual math operation. Also, there isn't a convenient unit beneath the inch. Miles, kilometers, the distance stays the same doesn’t it?

Converting from cm to mm is a mere jump of a decimal point, whereas converting from feet to inches requires an actual math operation. Also, there isn’t a convenient unit beneath the inch.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141845 Ray Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:49:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141845 oz is ounce, pronounced like 'bounce' without the 'b'. <b>16</b> ounces is a pound, and <b>14</b> pounds is a stone, and <b>8</b> stone is a hundredweight (because it contains <b>112</b> pounds, you see), and <b>20</b> hundredweight (or <b>2240</b> pounds) is a ton. Easy! Or 1 oz is just under 30 grams, which is just under .03 kg, or a little under 30,000 mg, if you can remember all of that without your heading exploding from the sheer complexity of it all. oz is ounce, pronounced like ‘bounce’ without the ‘b’.
16 ounces is a pound, and 14 pounds is a stone, and 8 stone is a hundredweight (because it contains 112 pounds, you see), and 20 hundredweight (or 2240 pounds) is a ton. Easy!
Or 1 oz is just under 30 grams, which is just under .03 kg, or a little under 30,000 mg, if you can remember all of that without your heading exploding from the sheer complexity of it all.

]]> By: Matt McIrvin http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141823 Matt McIrvin Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:26:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141823 Small cultural differences abound. By US standards, in most European restaurants it takes forever for the bill to come. Even in fairly nice restaurants, the modern US custom is to present the bill quickly when it becomes clear the customers don't want to order anything else, so that they can divide up the damage over dessert and coffee and get out of there whenever they like. One side effect is that Americans will go out for lunch on fairly tight schedules and often expect to be finished in much less than an hour, even if it's a sit-down place. In most European countries, the idea seems to be that there's something vaguely inhospitable about this, as if the proprietors are pushing you out the door, so the bill typically arrives in a more leisurely manner. Anyway, when I was recently visiting Spain with some other Americans, one of them told me a story about this: he once visited Ireland unaware of both European restaurant service customs and European tipping customs, and got so irritated by the slow-arriving bill that he decided to leave a miserly tip--and, of course, ended up leaving a completely appropriate tip for completely appropriate service, entirely by accident. Small cultural differences abound. By US standards, in most European restaurants it takes forever for the bill to come. Even in fairly nice restaurants, the modern US custom is to present the bill quickly when it becomes clear the customers don’t want to order anything else, so that they can divide up the damage over dessert and coffee and get out of there whenever they like. One side effect is that Americans will go out for lunch on fairly tight schedules and often expect to be finished in much less than an hour, even if it’s a sit-down place.

In most European countries, the idea seems to be that there’s something vaguely inhospitable about this, as if the proprietors are pushing you out the door, so the bill typically arrives in a more leisurely manner.

Anyway, when I was recently visiting Spain with some other Americans, one of them told me a story about this: he once visited Ireland unaware of both European restaurant service customs and European tipping customs, and got so irritated by the slow-arriving bill that he decided to leave a miserly tip—and, of course, ended up leaving a completely appropriate tip for completely appropriate service, entirely by accident.

]]> By: BM http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141821 BM Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:31:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141821 Moving to USA from Israel, the best thing was the lack of significant coins - now I can go "coinless" and actually have a wallet that fits in my pocket. I don't know how I'd even be able to live somewhere else. Regarding tax, this seems to be a general thing that in the US you are more aware of sales tax, income tax etc. while in Israel they try to make the tax as transparent as possible (everyone quotes the prices and salaries after tax, many people will not even be aware how much tax they are paying). Perhaps it's not a coincidence that Israeli taxes are higher. That said, I doubt I'll ever be able to understand what is an oz (and how you pronounce it). Moving to USA from Israel, the best thing was the lack of significant coins – now I can go “coinless” and actually have a wallet that fits in my pocket.
I don’t know how I’d even be able to live somewhere else.

Regarding tax, this seems to be a general thing that in the US you are more aware of sales tax, income tax etc. while in Israel they try to make the tax as transparent as possible (everyone quotes the prices and salaries after tax, many people will not even be aware how much tax they are paying). Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that Israeli taxes are higher.

That said, I doubt I’ll ever be able to understand what is an oz (and how you pronounce it).

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141812 John Quiggin Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:51:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141812 According to <a href="http://www.click2houston.com/money/5433819/detail.html" rel="nofollow"> this report, all the major chains set different prices at different stores.</a> According to this report, all the major chains set different prices at different stores.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141800 Ray Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:07:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141800 That sounds weird to me. For context, the food in supermarkets in Ireland tends not to have price tags at all, there are signs on the shelves instead. Larger ticket items are individually priced in store. But if that's the way things are generally done in the US, that is a good reason for not including sales tax in a price. That sounds weird to me. For context, the food in supermarkets in Ireland tends not to have price tags at all, there are signs on the shelves instead. Larger ticket items are individually priced in store. But if that’s the way things are generally done in the US, that is a good reason for not including sales tax in a price.

]]> By: JLS http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141797 JLS Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:01:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141797 “In fact France has the lowest percentage of people in unions in develelopped world (7% or 9%) 4% in private company.” If you think that statistic is relevant in determining the inefficiency caused by French unions, you have not lived in France. I'm French and I live in France. I have workef in ten companies I have never seen an union. JLS “In fact France has the lowest percentage of people in unions in develelopped world (7% or 9%) 4% in private company.”

If you think that statistic is relevant in determining the inefficiency caused by French unions, you have not lived in France.

I’m French and I live in France.
I have workef in ten companies I have never seen an union.

JLS

]]> By: tom brandt http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141782 tom brandt Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:47:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141782 I believe they do, except for the occassional local store mark-down for some special reason. In that case, the mark-down usually noted by a special coupon or sign on the shelf. The price tag on the item still has the regular retail price. I believe they do, except for the occassional local store mark-down for some special reason. In that case, the mark-down usually noted by a special coupon or sign on the shelf. The price tag on the item still has the regular retail price.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141766 Ray Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:41:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141766 Do toasters, for example, sell for the same (pre-tax) price in every Target store nationwide? That <b>would</b> make a difference, but I didn't think it happened. Do toasters, for example, sell for the same (pre-tax) price in every Target store nationwide? That would make a difference, but I didn’t think it happened.

]]> By: tom brandt http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141750 tom brandt Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:20:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141750 Ray, Actually, in many cases the goods are pre-tagged with the retail price, especially those going to the large chains like Target or Sears. Ray,
Actually, in many cases the goods are pre-tagged with the retail price, especially those going to the large chains like Target or Sears.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141746 Ray Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:11:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141746 Catowner, that's another good reason for the store to put the post-tax price on the tags. They have to know which items the tax applies to, while the customers don't. The 'savings' is in knowing how much something will cost you to buy. Catowner, that’s another good reason for the store to put the post-tax price on the tags. They have to know which items the tax applies to, while the customers don’t. The ‘savings’ is in knowing how much something will cost you to buy.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141745 Ray Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:07:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141745 <i>The sales tax question is grudgingly more efficient: when you have state sales tax and local sales tax, and various exceptions that change according to state and local law, forcing vendors to mark up items at after-tax prices would be time-consuming and expensive</i> Why? The vendor is going to know what taxes and exceptions apply better than the customers - they <b>have to</b>, since they have to know how much money to collect at the register. And its not like the goods come from some off-shore warehouse pre-tagged - each shop is going to put the price tags on <b>anyway</b>, so why not put the post-tax price on? The sales tax question is grudgingly more efficient: when you have state sales tax and local sales tax, and various exceptions that change according to state and local law, forcing vendors to mark up items at after-tax prices would be time-consuming and expensive

Why? The vendor is going to know what taxes and exceptions apply better than the customers – they have to, since they have to know how much money to collect at the register. And its not like the goods come from some off-shore warehouse pre-tagged – each shop is going to put the price tags on anyway, so why not put the post-tax price on?

]]> By: serial catowner http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/comment-page-3/#comment-141744 serial catowner Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:06:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/01/24/an-ounce-of-inefficiency/#comment-141744 How could it possibly matter? I go to the grocery store, buy the items with reduced prices, slide a debit card while the cashier punches buttons, and get a tape that lists each item, and the total tax calculated on the basis of what is taxable and what the local rate is. Y'see, in America grocery stores also sell items that are taxable along with food items that may not be. And, wrong as it may be, Americans prefer keeping government as local as possible. So where is the savings in "knowing" what the price will be with the tax? And that, in a nutshell, is why we don't care. Miles, kilometers, the distance stays the same doesn't it? Lots of us go to Canada and somehow survive the imperial gallon. And remain blissfully unaware that higher minds calculate distances in factions of lightyears. How could it possibly matter?

I go to the grocery store, buy the items with reduced prices, slide a debit card while the cashier punches buttons, and get a tape that lists each item, and the total tax calculated on the basis of what is taxable and what the local rate is.

Y’see, in America grocery stores also sell items that are taxable along with food items that may not be. And, wrong as it may be, Americans prefer keeping government as local as possible.

So where is the savings in “knowing” what the price will be with the tax?

And that, in a nutshell, is why we don’t care. Miles, kilometers, the distance stays the same doesn’t it? Lots of us go to Canada and somehow survive the imperial gallon. And remain blissfully unaware that higher minds calculate distances in factions of lightyears.

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