Comments on: WTF alert!

By: abb1

abb1 — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 21:11:25 +0000

Yeah, but this is unfair to France, Germany, Italy, etc. – they are also ‘ideas’ to some extent, while America, of course, has its own share of ‘genes and blood’ problem. Shouldn’t idealize or caricature too much.

By: Bro. Bartleby

Bro. Bartleby — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:39:14 +0000

It means … when yelling at the television camera from the Superdome mess in New Orleans, the Black lady said, “We’re Americans! This isn’t right!”
And true. She is an American. It wasn’t right.
What I am discussing is self identity, and when one identifies oneself with an ‘idea’ (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights) and not genes and blood, then the ‘potential’ exists for change for the better. When self identity is genes and blood, then the future is forever divided.

By: novakant

novakant — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 13:48:32 +0000

so it doesn’t matter if you’re the only black family in a rural town in Iowa and it doesn’t matter if you’re if you’re a hassidic jew in the bible belt, coz, hey, we’re all americans after all?

sounds great in theory and hollywood scripts, but, alas, it’s simply not true

By: Bro. Bartleby

Bro. Bartleby — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:48:49 +0000

Z point is, or I should make clear, ‘the’ point is that it all doesn’t matter in America, one can be ‘all of the above’ OR ‘none of the above’ and one is still called, identified as, is an American. Whereas in Europe, what is a German? a Frenchman? a Dane? Well, I suppose it depends on your roots (autochthonous), but in plain language in Europe ethnicity is as important to some ‘pure bred’ folks as it is with the indigenous folks of America. For them, blood and genes count. When your self identify is part and parcel with your blood and genes, then you have a tough time identifying with all the mutts and mongrels that call themselves Americans, those who identify with an ‘idea’ and not physical characteristics. But alas, we still cling to our romance with the pure-bred Irish Setters and the Toy Poodles.

By: Z

Fri, 03 Feb 2006 08:17:58 +0000

Just to cast a funny sociological/demographical fact in. Contra Bro.Bartelby, the US has actually a much lower rate of inter-racial marriage than most european states, especially France. The contrast is particularly stark if one compares marriage between blacks and whites in the US and between muslims and christians in France. So the hidden horror that the Muslims (non assimilators, as in my daughter will not marry your son, end of issue!) etc. should really read “the hidden horror that the american whites (non assimilators, as in my son will not marry your daughter, end of issue!) etc.”.

Besides, while it is true that Americans like to think about themselves as “from the melting-pot” while French perhaps like to invoke “nos ancetres les gaulois”, in the 1870-1920 period, there was actually more immigration in France (relative to population of course) than in the US. This is not true anymore, but Americans feeling they live in an exceptionnaly diverse country and French feeling they lives in an exceptionnaly homogeneous country are badly mistaken.

By: Jamie

Jamie — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:22:08 +0000

Luci, I think that should be "hoi informed polloi". Maynard H., our president is truthy. If he's thereby Foucaudian, so much the better!

By: Maynard Handley

Maynard Handley — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:48:01 +0000

I imagine they’d prefer to live in the US where the president is able to make statements like “We plan to reduce our dependence on middle eastern oil by 75%”, when he plans to do no such thing, but the statement is true because it is “expressing a higher truth”.

Does is get more Foucaltian than that?

By: John Quiggin

John Quiggin — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:23:42 +0000

Steve, I'm surprised you used plumbers rather than soldiers as an example. You did enlist at 18, didn't you?

By: luci

luci — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:19:35 +0000

when society values the political opinions of academics as much as they value the political opinions of plumbers, society will have taken a great step forward.

(Leaving aside the peculiarity of mocking academics on an academic blog) anti-elitist banter is always fun. I’d agree that the political opinions of informed hoi polloi should be taken at about the same value as the ivory tower twits.

But…..how many, say, plumbers believed that Saddam Hussein or Iraq attacked the US on 9/11? How does that compare to the proportion of academics who’d get that fact wrong?

Does it matter in a democracy?

(OTOH, I’d guess a slightly larger percentage of “liberal” academic types implored us to take “seriously” the threat from Iraq than regular-joes believed the WMD nonsense).

By: yabonn

yabonn — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:11:47 +0000

59 Google hits for “Spanish Grandmas”.

Not bad.

By: Colin Danby

Colin Danby — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:40:25 +0000

As you suggest, Brendan, the people who make this sort of statement regard it as so self-evidently true that furnishing evidence would only diminish it. More to the point they have no clue about how to think about historical cause and effect, how to move from hypothesis to defensible conclusion. I’m reminded of our recent discussion of causes for the collapse of the Roman Empire.

I run into variants of the entartete Kunst argument all the time on the blogosphere, with certain names and alleged doctrines serving as lightning-rods. The funny thing is that Foucault also plays the bogeyman for certain varieties of leftish complaint, because people think he has undermined our faith in the state or in the underpinnings of identity politics. Makes me want to teach him more often.

By: Bro. Bartleby

Bro. Bartleby — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:09:48 +0000

23.
If you were a Spanish grandma, you’d understand what ‘less than zero’ means when a family gathering can be counted on one hand.

And yes, from an American perspective, who cares if the Spanish become mutts like us. Either America is an example for the future, or, the future will be filled with ‘darkie-haters’ and ‘whitie-haters’ and ‘yellow-haters’ and ‘brown-haters’ and just good old fashioned haters. But, I believe, America provides the ‘potential’ for a future that looks more like ‘so what’ and then perhaps we can all join in that declaration quest of happiness.

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:54:06 +0000

Bartly- how does a “1.07 birth rate” translate in to a “less than zero” birth rate? That’s what was so funny to me. (You seem to have birth rate mixed up with population growth rate, though that’s not negative in Spain, either.) And of course, the answer to the birth rate question is, “so what?” Spain get a bit darker. Who but a darkie-hater cares?

By: Carlos

Carlos — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:44:04 +0000

It should be remembered that the USA (and probably most of the other countries in the Americas) is an exception in regard to the assimilation issue. Most countries in the world are relatively homogeneous ethnically, at least in comparison with countries from the American continent, which were populated by large and relatively recent waves of inmigrants. My guess is that an inmigrant would have just as much problems assimilating into China or Iran as into Europe.

By: Bro. Bartleby

Bro. Bartleby — Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:23:33 +0000

17.
Recent example, all the anguish and hand wringing in France because the Muslims are not assimilating, while in the U.S. it is just a fact of life and so be it, unless you’re a neo-nazi, in which case, they too wish not to assimilate, and for the rest of us, cheers to that. Okay, time for getting down and dirty, as we say in the monestary. Europe in like the Westminster Kennel Club dog show, America is like your neighborhood dog pound … simply put, we Americans are mutts, and have long ago given up the idea of being ‘pure breds’ … alas, hidden under the veneer of assimilation in Europe, is the want to remain pure breds. So the hidden horror that the Muslims (non assimilators, as in my daughter will not marry your son, end of issue!) will soon be the majority, and will surely vote themselves into office. And then the pugs and terriers and chihuahuas will find themselves in a world of their own making. And the mutts of America? We can feel smug, that is, as long as the Hasidic Jews don’t become the majority … at which time we at the monestary will be wearing yarmulkes.