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	<title>Comments on: The liberalism of fools</title>
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	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: soru</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143820</link>
		<dc:creator>soru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143820</guid>
		<description>I guess it shouldn&#039;t be surprising that science fiction authors seem to be the only ones able to come close to understanding the world of 2006.

soru</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I guess it shouldn&#8217;t be surprising that science fiction authors seem to be the only ones able to come close to understanding the world of 2006.</p>

	<p>soru</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Stross</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143748</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Stross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2006 12:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143748</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m startled at the number of readers who just don&#039;t  Get what Ken was saying. They read the words but missed the meaning, which is a not-terribly-obscure metaphor. Some folks thought &quot;the liberalism of fools&quot; was an attack  on liberal values, or an assertion that liberal values are only held by fools, or lead inevitably to foolishness. Others thought he was literally talking about anti-clericalism or anti-catholicism. And others think ... well.

Let&#039;s put it in words of one syllable, shall we?

If your petit-bourgeois lifestyle is precarious and seems to be under attack, the temptation is to look for an external attacker rather than to  consider the reasons why it is precarious. It&#039;s a lot easier to swallow the idea that you&#039;re being put out of business because of some conspiracy of evil international bankers than it is to swallow the possibility that you might just be screwed because the economic system is buggy -- because the conspiracy theory holds out the promise of a quick fix (if you shoot the conspirators). When the economic or social pressure heats up, fools turn to conspiracy  theories and prejudice instead of looking for underlying causes of the malaise.

Today we live in a globalized world. It costs about one month&#039;s average earnings for a citizen of a developed country, and takes about 48 hours, to reach the antipodes. Back in 1806, that&#039;s about what it would have cost (and taken) to travel halfway across England, or across one of the New England states, by stage coach. We are living cheek by jowl with people who we don&#039;t know and don&#039;t much care for, and in many cases they don&#039;t care much for us, either. Meanwhile, actions taken at home reverberate around this shrunken world in much the same way that events happening in a town ten miles down the road would have reverberated back in regency England. 

So we&#039;re harvesting a bumper crop of conspiracies and racism, the liberalism of fools, as Ken put it. It&#039;s easier to blame the strangers than to grapple with the possibility that the current world situation -- for which we are partially responsible -- puts their concerns square in our lap, or that big corporations working out of our capitals can upset them by tripling the price of drinking water or publishing offensive cartoons.

Finally, There&#039;s the classic mistaken assumption that &quot;the enemy of my enemy is my friend&quot;. It&#039;s an error that Hitchens and others, liberals who should have known  better, fell into. Having decided that radical Islam was a direct threat (rather than the system that resulted in the production of a violent, radical Islamicist movement on our doorstep) they lent their support to the Strong Man who promised to hold the threat at bay -- ignoring the evidence that his faction are largely responsible for the existence of the threat in the first place. It&#039;s the same error as the 1930s liberals who backed Stalin unconditionally because he was opposed to fascism; or the 1930s conservatives who wanted to back off on that nice Mr Hitler because he was tough on communism.

&quot;But still, there it was: a religion identified with reaction, and progressives with a blind spot about a powerful state that they saw as that religion&#039;s most formidable foe.&quot;

And there you have it. Nasty xenophobia being harnessed to support a strongly nationalistic, not to say racist, regime. Couldn&#039;t happen here, could it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m startled at the number of readers who just don&#8217;t  Get what Ken was saying. They read the words but missed the meaning, which is a not-terribly-obscure metaphor. Some folks thought &#8220;the liberalism of fools&#8221; was an attack  on liberal values, or an assertion that liberal values are only held by fools, or lead inevitably to foolishness. Others thought he was literally talking about anti-clericalism or anti-catholicism. And others think &#8230; well.</p>

	<p>Let&#8217;s put it in words of one syllable, shall we?</p>

	<p>If your petit-bourgeois lifestyle is precarious and seems to be under attack, the temptation is to look for an external attacker rather than to  consider the reasons why it is precarious. It&#8217;s a lot easier to swallow the idea that you&#8217;re being put out of business because of some conspiracy of evil international bankers than it is to swallow the possibility that you might just be screwed because the economic system is buggy&#8212;because the conspiracy theory holds out the promise of a quick fix (if you shoot the conspirators). When the economic or social pressure heats up, fools turn to conspiracy  theories and prejudice instead of looking for underlying causes of the malaise.</p>

	<p>Today we live in a globalized world. It costs about one month&#8217;s average earnings for a citizen of a developed country, and takes about 48 hours, to reach the antipodes. Back in 1806, that&#8217;s about what it would have cost (and taken) to travel halfway across England, or across one of the New England states, by stage coach. We are living cheek by jowl with people who we don&#8217;t know and don&#8217;t much care for, and in many cases they don&#8217;t care much for us, either. Meanwhile, actions taken at home reverberate around this shrunken world in much the same way that events happening in a town ten miles down the road would have reverberated back in regency England.</p>

	<p>So we&#8217;re harvesting a bumper crop of conspiracies and racism, the liberalism of fools, as Ken put it. It&#8217;s easier to blame the strangers than to grapple with the possibility that the current world situation&#8212;for which we are partially responsible&#8212;puts their concerns square in our lap, or that big corporations working out of our capitals can upset them by tripling the price of drinking water or publishing offensive cartoons.</p>

	<p>Finally, There&#8217;s the classic mistaken assumption that &#8220;the enemy of my enemy is my friend&#8221;. It&#8217;s an error that Hitchens and others, liberals who should have known  better, fell into. Having decided that radical Islam was a direct threat (rather than the system that resulted in the production of a violent, radical Islamicist movement on our doorstep) they lent their support to the Strong Man who promised to hold the threat at bay&#8212;ignoring the evidence that his faction are largely responsible for the existence of the threat in the first place. It&#8217;s the same error as the 1930s liberals who backed Stalin unconditionally because he was opposed to fascism; or the 1930s conservatives who wanted to back off on that nice Mr Hitler because he was tough on communism.</p>

	<p>&#8220;But still, there it was: a religion identified with reaction, and progressives with a blind spot about a powerful state that they saw as that religion&#8217;s most formidable foe.&#8221;</p>

	<p>And there you have it. Nasty xenophobia being harnessed to support a strongly nationalistic, not to say racist, regime. Couldn&#8217;t happen here, could it?</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Arben Fox</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143702</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Arben Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 20:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143702</guid>
		<description>A bit late, but this post got me thinking about the cartoon controversy and the limits of our various liberal and conservative reactions to such, &lt;a href=&quot;http://inmedias.blogspot.com/2006/02/liberals-theocons-and-cartoons.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A bit late, but this post got me thinking about the cartoon controversy and the limits of our various liberal and conservative reactions to such, <a href="http://inmedias.blogspot.com/2006/02/liberals-theocons-and-cartoons.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143700</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 19:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143700</guid>
		<description>Does he have to be talking about a particular religion here?

It could be American progressives railing against Christian conservatives and, liberals opposing political Zionism, or Europeans fearing Muslim minorities.

Look to American religious conservatives who criticize the boogeyman of &quot;secular humanism&quot; or communists who speak of &quot;capitalist pigs.&quot;

There is an unsettling human instinct to define an enemy and hate with an unreasoning, righteous rage.  Progressive intellectuals are no more immune than anyone else, no matter how rational they think they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Does he have to be talking about a particular religion here?</p>

	<p>It could be American progressives railing against Christian conservatives and, liberals opposing political Zionism, or Europeans fearing Muslim minorities.</p>

	<p>Look to American religious conservatives who criticize the boogeyman of &#8220;secular humanism&#8221; or communists who speak of &#8220;capitalist pigs.&#8221;</p>

	<p>There is an unsettling human instinct to define an enemy and hate with an unreasoning, righteous rage.  Progressive intellectuals are no more immune than anyone else, no matter how rational they think they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143611</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 09:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143611</guid>
		<description>Update: I was referring, in 42, to the Poor Man&#039;s first post on the cartoons. He now has another, longer one, to which updates II and III &lt;i&gt;strongly&lt;/i&gt; conform to Macleod&#039;s conjecture. This is starting to worry me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Update: I was referring, in 42, to the Poor Man&#8217;s first post on the cartoons. He now has another, longer one, to which updates II and <span class="caps">III </span><i>strongly</i> conform to Macleod&#8217;s conjecture. This is starting to worry me.</p>
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		<title>By: john c. halasz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143545</link>
		<dc:creator>john c. halasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143545</guid>
		<description>The Danish government is a rightwing government that is de facto aligned with the originating newspaper and has been pursuing populist polemics against &quot;multiculturalism&quot; as part of its electoral agenda. Just so you get the particular Danish context for this hydra-headed monster. I wouldn&#039;t advocate press censorship in Denmark, over here, or over there, but, not only is it absurd to claim that we have a disinterestedly &quot;free&quot; press over here, removed from the operations and influences of established power and its agendas, but claiming that freedom of the press, which is not endangered over here by foreign influences in any case, is the main consideration at issue is just the height of ideological hypocrisy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Danish government is a rightwing government that is de facto aligned with the originating newspaper and has been pursuing populist polemics against &#8220;multiculturalism&#8221; as part of its electoral agenda. Just so you get the particular Danish context for this hydra-headed monster. I wouldn&#8217;t advocate press censorship in Denmark, over here, or over there, but, not only is it absurd to claim that we have a disinterestedly &#8220;free&#8221; press over here, removed from the operations and influences of established power and its agendas, but claiming that freedom of the press, which is not endangered over here by foreign influences in any case, is the main consideration at issue is just the height of ideological hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Green</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143542</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:02:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143542</guid>
		<description>Well, that may be so John, but I&#039;m damned glad that the Danish government said (effectively) that it was not their business to enforce Muslim taboos on their own population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, that may be so John, but I&#8217;m damned glad that the Danish government said (effectively) that it was not their business to enforce Muslim taboos on their own population.</p>
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		<title>By: john c. halasz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143535</link>
		<dc:creator>john c. halasz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143535</guid>
		<description>What Macleod&#039;s sly innuendo slips up on, it seems to me, is that back then the RC church was still a powerful influence tightly allied to dominant power centers in many countries, whereas Islam, in the West, at least, is not. (&quot;Over there&quot;, the situations are more ambiguous in that regard, but still, the terrorist component is both a small minority outside the mainstream and specifically directed against established dominant powers.) Now, I&#039;ll admit I haven&#039;t followed this whole extended &quot;cartoon&quot; incident/controversy with utter absorbtion, since I&#039;m not hooked up with the electronic mass media, to keep up with the latest state-of-play, and the whole thing strikes me as a bit Yogi Berra-ish. But it&#039;s baldly obvious that it has popped up in the overall context of a massively violent Western aggression against a predominantly Muslim nation, with threats of more to come, together with a more diffuse, but broader cultural/political aggressive pressure on the Arab and Islamic world, claiming that the West can and should &quot;force them to be free&quot;, that is, be more like us, in our absurdly idealized image of ourselves,-  (and while we steal their oil)- without any regard for the heritages, internal balances or normative recognitions of their own societies, (however inadequate we or they might feel them to be). (That there is internecine conflict and violence amongst themselves only points to the direness and precariousness of the overall situation.) To deal with the situation in self-regarding fashion as a matter of &quot;values&quot; without regard for real conditions and, further, to deploy it as a self-confirming opportunities to affirm the superiority of one&#039;s own &quot;values&quot; in the conflict is merely a denegation and reiteration of the whole FUBAR situation. Still more absurd is to assert that there is or ought to be a &quot;unity&quot; of &quot;values&quot; with respect to the &quot;progressive&quot; position of the West, since there are any number of cleavages and conflicts of &quot;values&quot; here: viz. freedom of speech/expression vs. tolerance vs. equal claim to respect and dignity vs. standards of justification vs.  majority rule vs. minority rights vs. norms of civic participation vs. social exclusions vs. differentially distributed power-relations vs. solidarity with human sufferings, etc. There is no point to talking about &quot;values&quot; without first considering the real conditions and specific situations that would make for their possible application, and, I think, facing up to those real conditions and confronting the various ideological value claims that are ostensibly made on their behalf with interpretations and analyses that take into account the real bases and many-sidedness of the issues would be the only real and reasonable hope of advancing any mutual understanding amidst all the noise and violence. The reactive violence of the Muslims resembles nothing so much as a projective identification directed against the West that refuses to grant them any hearing or legitimate voice, amidst its own agressive self-preoccupation. One peculiarity I&#039;ve noticed among the variously pained or triumphant attempts of Westerners to work out the &quot;values&quot; position on this issue, is the readiness with which they dismiss the Muslims&#039; complaint about blasphemy/idolatry,- (the two terms can not wholely be distingushed or separated),- as if that were completely unrecognizable, and an obscurely and repressively theological issue, which should not be allowed to be of any account. The oddity is that foundational Western traditions are build on some of the same or similar understandings and not just in religious guises. Even if the rioters&#039; might hold to narrowly theocratic strictures on the issue, what is fundamentally at stake, in their as well as our own traditions, in the prohibition against blasphemy/idolatry is the fundamental status and recognition of the &quot;properly&quot; human, as the &quot;foundation&quot; for any ethical compact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What Macleod&#8217;s sly innuendo slips up on, it seems to me, is that back then the RC church was still a powerful influence tightly allied to dominant power centers in many countries, whereas Islam, in the West, at least, is not. (&#8220;Over there&#8221;, the situations are more ambiguous in that regard, but still, the terrorist component is both a small minority outside the mainstream and specifically directed against established dominant powers.) Now, I&#8217;ll admit I haven&#8217;t followed this whole extended &#8220;cartoon&#8221; incident/controversy with utter absorbtion, since I&#8217;m not hooked up with the electronic mass media, to keep up with the latest state-of-play, and the whole thing strikes me as a bit Yogi Berra-ish. But it&#8217;s baldly obvious that it has popped up in the overall context of a massively violent Western aggression against a predominantly Muslim nation, with threats of more to come, together with a more diffuse, but broader cultural/political aggressive pressure on the Arab and Islamic world, claiming that the West can and should &#8220;force them to be free&#8221;, that is, be more like us, in our absurdly idealized image of ourselves,-  (and while we steal their oil)- without any regard for the heritages, internal balances or normative recognitions of their own societies, (however inadequate we or they might feel them to be). (That there is internecine conflict and violence amongst themselves only points to the direness and precariousness of the overall situation.) To deal with the situation in self-regarding fashion as a matter of &#8220;values&#8221; without regard for real conditions and, further, to deploy it as a self-confirming opportunities to affirm the superiority of one&#8217;s own &#8220;values&#8221; in the conflict is merely a denegation and reiteration of the whole <span class="caps">FUBAR</span> situation. Still more absurd is to assert that there is or ought to be a &#8220;unity&#8221; of &#8220;values&#8221; with respect to the &#8220;progressive&#8221; position of the West, since there are any number of cleavages and conflicts of &#8220;values&#8221; here: viz. freedom of speech/expression vs. tolerance vs. equal claim to respect and dignity vs. standards of justification vs.  majority rule vs. minority rights vs. norms of civic participation vs. social exclusions vs. differentially distributed power-relations vs. solidarity with human sufferings, etc. There is no point to talking about &#8220;values&#8221; without first considering the real conditions and specific situations that would make for their possible application, and, I think, facing up to those real conditions and confronting the various ideological value claims that are ostensibly made on their behalf with interpretations and analyses that take into account the real bases and many-sidedness of the issues would be the only real and reasonable hope of advancing any mutual understanding amidst all the noise and violence. The reactive violence of the Muslims resembles nothing so much as a projective identification directed against the West that refuses to grant them any hearing or legitimate voice, amidst its own agressive self-preoccupation. One peculiarity I&#8217;ve noticed among the variously pained or triumphant attempts of Westerners to work out the &#8220;values&#8221; position on this issue, is the readiness with which they dismiss the Muslims&#8217; complaint about blasphemy/idolatry,- (the two terms can not wholely be distingushed or separated),- as if that were completely unrecognizable, and an obscurely and repressively theological issue, which should not be allowed to be of any account. The oddity is that foundational Western traditions are build on some of the same or similar understandings and not just in religious guises. Even if the rioters&#8217; might hold to narrowly theocratic strictures on the issue, what is fundamentally at stake, in their as well as our own traditions, in the prohibition against blasphemy/idolatry is the fundamental status and recognition of the &#8220;properly&#8221; human, as the &#8220;foundation&#8221; for any ethical compact.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143527</guid>
		<description>Er, right. OK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Er, right. OK.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-2/#comment-143526</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 22:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143526</guid>
		<description>And still almost no one here says a damn thing about the position of muslims in Europe: generalizations on top of generalizations in response to an allegory.
Why aren&#039;t muslims bahaving rationally?
Because most people don&#039;t behave rationally under the best circumstances, and muslims in Europe are treated like shit.
The question is not: why aren&#039;t they playing the game at our level?  No one plays the game at that level.

Jimmy Doyle: &quot;I only meant to imply that mainstream leftist opinion in the Europe and the UK at the time of 9/11 was antipathetic to the general culture of the Bush US.&quot;

Oh, and why should any &#039;mainstream leftist&#039; anywhere feel anything other than antipathy for the &quot;Bush&quot; US?
Is that similar to the &quot;Thatcherite&quot; UK?

And if you weren&#039;t already aware, &#039;mainstream leftist&#039; is entirely oxymoronic only in one country on this planet. I&#039;d love to be a mainstream leftist, but we have no one but green-haired teenagers wearing T shirts that say &quot;Noam Chomsky is God&quot; 
and then some people who call themselves &#039;liberals.&#039; And they&#039;re guilty enough about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And still almost no one here says a damn thing about the position of muslims in Europe: generalizations on top of generalizations in response to an allegory.<br />
Why aren&#8217;t muslims bahaving rationally?<br />
Because most people don&#8217;t behave rationally under the best circumstances, and muslims in Europe are treated like shit.<br />
The question is not: why aren&#8217;t they playing the game at our level?  No one plays the game at that level.</p>

	<p>Jimmy Doyle: &#8220;I only meant to imply that mainstream leftist opinion in the Europe and the UK at the time of 9/11 was antipathetic to the general culture of the Bush US.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Oh, and why should any &#8216;mainstream leftist&#8217; anywhere feel anything other than antipathy for the &#8220;Bush&#8221; US?<br />
Is that similar to the &#8220;Thatcherite&#8221; UK?</p>

	<p>And if you weren&#8217;t already aware, &#8216;mainstream leftist&#8217; is entirely oxymoronic only in one country on this planet. I&#8217;d love to be a mainstream leftist, but we have no one but green-haired teenagers wearing T shirts that say &#8220;Noam Chomsky is God&#8221;<br />
and then some people who call themselves &#8216;liberals.&#8217; And they&#8217;re guilty enough about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-1/#comment-143516</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143516</guid>
		<description>Pardon me, Jimmy. I&#039;ll rewrite.

I’d also try to change the subject from “The Muslims involved with the violent protests are protesting the cartoons” to “The Muslims involved with the violent protests have a huge list of grievances (which, co-incidentally, is similar to a list of my own) and this cartoon issue is merely the straw that broke the camel’s back.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Pardon me, Jimmy. I&#8217;ll rewrite.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;d also try to change the subject from &#8220;The Muslims involved with the violent protests are protesting the cartoons&#8221; to &#8220;The Muslims involved with the violent protests have a huge list of grievances (which, co-incidentally, is similar to a list of my own) and this cartoon issue is merely the straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-1/#comment-143514</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143514</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...how to make a moral judgment in our favor and against our enemies.&lt;/i&gt;

In &lt;i&gt;our&lt;/i&gt; favor? I&#039;m not one of those who insult Muslims gratuitously and why would I want to make moral judgment in &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; favor? &lt;i&gt;Our&lt;/i&gt; enemies? I don&#039;t have any enemies, especially not in this situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8230;how to make a moral judgment in our favor and against our enemies.</i></p>

	<p>In <i>our</i> favor? I&#8217;m not one of those who insult Muslims gratuitously and why would I want to make moral judgment in <i>their</i> favor? <i>Our</i> enemies? I don&#8217;t have any enemies, especially not in this situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-1/#comment-143513</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 21:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143513</guid>
		<description>Jaybird,

The only true exceptionless generalisations beginning &quot;The Muslims...&quot; are those detailing Islamic religious practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jaybird,</p>

	<p>The only true exceptionless generalisations beginning &#8220;The Muslims&#8230;&#8221; are those detailing Islamic religious practices.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jaybird</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-1/#comment-143512</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaybird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 20:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143512</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the best way to deal with this quantry is through moral equivalence. &quot;It&#039;s not like both sides don&#039;t have some good points... and a lot of bomb throwing fanatics!&quot;

I&#039;d also try to change the subject from &quot;The Muslims are protesting the cartoons&quot; to &quot;The Muslims have a huge list of grievances (which, co-incidentally, is similar to a list of my own) and this cartoon issue is merely the straw that broke the camel&#039;s back. Wait, I shouldn&#039;t use that simile, I need to find one more inclusive...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It seems to me that the best way to deal with this quantry is through moral equivalence. &#8220;It&#8217;s not like both sides don&#8217;t have some good points&#8230; and a lot of bomb throwing fanatics!&#8221;</p>

	<p>I&#8217;d also try to change the subject from &#8220;The Muslims are protesting the cartoons&#8221; to &#8220;The Muslims have a huge list of grievances (which, co-incidentally, is similar to a list of my own) and this cartoon issue is merely the straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back. Wait, I shouldn&#8217;t use that simile, I need to find one more inclusive&#8230;&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/comment-page-1/#comment-143510</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 20:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/08/the-liberalism-of-fools/#comment-143510</guid>
		<description>Dr Slack,

Perhaps I didn&#039;t make myself clear. I only meant to imply that mainstream leftist opinion in the Europe and the UK at the time of 9/11 was antipathetic to the general culture of the Bush US. Far from being a caricature or a strawman, I don&#039;t see how this can be denied. What&#039;s more, for a substantial portion of leftists this amounted to straightforward bigotry, and still does. Decca Aitkenhead in the Guardian mentioned recently, in an entirely matter-of-fact way, that if she spent a holiday in New York City, everyone in her London circle would disapprove to the extent of demanding an explanation. Rick Moody, a couple of weeks ago, in a Guardian article on Brokeback Mountain, casually referred to the US as &quot;arguably the most homophobic nation on earth.&quot; This can only mean that, for him, and the many who read such sentiments without demur, &lt;i&gt; any slur will do&lt;/i&gt;. The examples are somewhat scattered, but there are quite a few more, and they mean &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dr Slack,</p>

	<p>Perhaps I didn&#8217;t make myself clear. I only meant to imply that mainstream leftist opinion in the Europe and the UK at the time of 9/11 was antipathetic to the general culture of the Bush US. Far from being a caricature or a strawman, I don&#8217;t see how this can be denied. What&#8217;s more, for a substantial portion of leftists this amounted to straightforward bigotry, and still does. Decca Aitkenhead in the Guardian mentioned recently, in an entirely matter-of-fact way, that if she spent a holiday in New York City, everyone in her London circle would disapprove to the extent of demanding an explanation. Rick Moody, a couple of weeks ago, in a Guardian article on Brokeback Mountain, casually referred to the US as &#8220;arguably the most homophobic nation on earth.&#8221; This can only mean that, for him, and the many who read such sentiments without demur, <i> any slur will do</i>. The examples are somewhat scattered, but there are quite a few more, and they mean <i>something</i>.</p>
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