I can’t think of an example where, for example, the former prime minister would be in the following position …

“As the Cold War ended, following the juridical investigations into mysterious acts of terrorism in Italy, Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti was forced to confirm in August 1990 that a secret army existed in Italy and other countries across Western Europe that were part of the North Atlantic Treat Organization (NATO). Coordinated by the unorthodox warfare section of NATO, the secret army had been set up by the US secret service Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6 or SIS) after the end of the Second World War to fight Communism in Western Europe.”

Perhaps the two points are related?

(The quote is from Daniele Ganser’s book, Operation Gladio).

mmm … in Berlusconi’s Italy magistrates issue international arrest warrants against 22 CIA members for kidnapping. I can’t imagine that happening in Moronica.

(Plame is an exception – that is an example of treason not justice).

Incidentally, I’ve seriously considered sellign tee-shirts with a characature of Berlusconi as Pinocchio, with a very, very long nose with the caption, “In this election, size matters…” But Prodi’s nose would be only slightly shorter, I think.

Vik from Milan

imbecilli le provocazioni di Calderoli.

Chi fomenta l’odio religioso in una società che si definisce civile
viene messo in disparte, emarginato.

Noi invece li facciamo ministri.

E ora ne paghiamo le conseguenze,
perchè temo che gli episodi di ieri siano solo l’inizio,
l’immagine dell’Italia già duramente provata
dalla nostra sudditanza e criminale complicità
agli Stati Uniti,
in quelle guerre tramite cui pretendiamo di esportare
i nostri sublimi valori democratici,
(gli stessi da cui che poi partoriscono
illuminate menti come quella del ministro della lega)
sarà ulteriormente danneggiata da questa inopinata iniezione di intolleranza.

Non voglio pensare di trovarmi dinnanzi
durante i mie viaggi
qualche folle estremista religioso che mi sventaglia un coltello dinnanzi
domandandomi se la penso come il Calderoli…

Propongo di esportare Lui al posto della nostra democrazia,
potremmo spedirlo in Pakistan,
già li vedo,
lui e Bin Laden che si alternano sul cucuzzolo della montagna
a salmodiare odio razziale e religioso.

Spediamocelo presto,
senza timore che se lo mangino vivo,
si sa,
da quella parti la carne di maiale
non si sfiora neanche con un dito.

ps.
Via a calci nel sedere anche
Clemente Mimun,
questo ebreo di destra,
pardon
estrema destra filosionista,
vada a condurre nei salotti di casa sua
queste messe in scena di una violenza verbale e intolleranza inaudite.
Non in mondovisione nella nostra rete statale,
lui è responsabile quanto Calderoli.

Well like most people I would define objective as meaning ‘according to me’:)

More seriously, reading a description of post-war Italian politics is simply breathtaking. Bad as British and American political leaders are (or French or German….) I can’t think of an example where, for example, the prime minister was plausibly accused of murder, where the mafia did (and to a slight lesser extent still does) have an influence on the formation of public policy, and where there are persistent (and plausible) accusations of government complicity in neo-fascist terrorism. (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/7178).

Italy, we should never forget, is a country where the fascists actually sit in the government .

Sounds like a perfect description of the US political system at the present time.

Because of Berlusconi and his influence (even in opposition)? Or more structurally, in relation to political movements/ governments of left and center as well as right?

It’s always struck me that despite some vague anti-Slavic prejudices left in the minds of Northern Europes that sometimes lead them to attack Russia, Bush and Blair’s ideal ‘democracy’ would be something like a cross between Putin’s Russia and Berlusconi’s Italy. In other words, a country which does have regular (and fair) elections, but with a neutered and controlled press, no (or emasculated) trade unions, an extremely strong ‘security state apparatus’, and real power wielded in the dark and behind the scences by ‘oligarchs’ or that mysterious new kind of businessman who ain’t exactly a businessman, but who ain’t exactly a mafiosi either.

Of course when the right wing blogs attack the decay of democracy in Europe it ain’t Italy they have in mind, even though Italy is by any objective standard the least democratic state in the EU.