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	<title>Comments on: The Kingmaker</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145478</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145478</guid>
		<description>I reckon john emerson is right about the Bushies gearing up for another fight with swarthy furriners before the elections, though I think a terrorism scare might be easier for them than repeating their foreign aggression.  But I think the obvious way for the Dems to counter this is to lay down a marker or two now that publicly warns of this.  Hillary should give a low-key speech saying, in effect, &quot;I predict that there will be a manufactured scare before the elections&quot;.

This gives you options when the threat comes to pass.  If it looks a really convincing threat, you can say that you didn&#039;t of course mean this particular threat, which is a real one which could not be foreseen and (grave and statesmanlike look on face) you support the President 100% in this hour of peril.  If, as is much more likely, it *looks* fake and exaggerated to anyone with clear vision it will be much easier to make the punters see what&#039;s in front of their eyes by referring back to this obscure speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I reckon john emerson is right about the Bushies gearing up for another fight with swarthy furriners before the elections, though I think a terrorism scare might be easier for them than repeating their foreign aggression.  But I think the obvious way for the Dems to counter this is to lay down a marker or two now that publicly warns of this.  Hillary should give a low-key speech saying, in effect, &#8220;I predict that there will be a manufactured scare before the elections&#8221;.</p>

	<p>This gives you options when the threat comes to pass.  If it looks a really convincing threat, you can say that you didn&#8217;t of course mean this particular threat, which is a real one which could not be foreseen and (grave and statesmanlike look on face) you support the President 100% in this hour of peril.  If, as is much more likely, it <strong>looks</strong> fake and exaggerated to anyone with clear vision it will be much easier to make the punters see what&#8217;s in front of their eyes by referring back to this obscure speech.</p>
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		<title>By: J Thomas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145405</link>
		<dc:creator>J Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145405</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How is it obvious that the US right, the Israeli right and the Iranian right would not all plausibly derive at least a near-term benefit from ‘a wave of anti-US sentiment?’&lt;/i&gt;

Erstwhile has a very good point here. Get a government that&#039;s surviving on short-term benefits, and it might very well attack iran.

Now consider the intelligence people are saying iran is 10 years from a bomb. If we stage a little attack and hit a few sites that don&#039;t actually do that much damage, Bush can claim that we set back iran&#039;s nuclear ambitions by 10 years. 

A whole lot of uproar, not much actual attack. Then we quit. Would iran keep responding? Stir up trouble that we&#039;d respond to, start a real war? I dunno. If they don&#039;t, it&#039;s a great photo-op of a war for Bush. A clean easy propaganda victory.

A few months ago I was seeing various estimates that the attack was scheduled for late March. Now John Emerson suggests something vaguer that might imply an attack in July/August. When would be the best time for US domestic purposes, like the elections? What international considerations would require it come sooner or later?

Has anybody heard recent rumors about when it&#039;s actually scheduled?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>How is it obvious that the US right, the Israeli right and the Iranian right would not all plausibly derive at least a near-term benefit from &#8216;a wave of anti-US sentiment?&#8217;</i></p>

	<p>Erstwhile has a very good point here. Get a government that&#8217;s surviving on short-term benefits, and it might very well attack iran.</p>

	<p>Now consider the intelligence people are saying iran is 10 years from a bomb. If we stage a little attack and hit a few sites that don&#8217;t actually do that much damage, Bush can claim that we set back iran&#8217;s nuclear ambitions by 10 years.</p>

	<p>A whole lot of uproar, not much actual attack. Then we quit. Would iran keep responding? Stir up trouble that we&#8217;d respond to, start a real war? I dunno. If they don&#8217;t, it&#8217;s a great photo-op of a war for Bush. A clean easy propaganda victory.</p>

	<p>A few months ago I was seeing various estimates that the attack was scheduled for late March. Now John Emerson suggests something vaguer that might imply an attack in July/August. When would be the best time for US domestic purposes, like the elections? What international considerations would require it come sooner or later?</p>

	<p>Has anybody heard recent rumors about when it&#8217;s actually scheduled?</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145403</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145403</guid>
		<description>I agree there was a period when Assad appeared strengthened for the reasons you suggest, JQ, but the Lebenese situation seems (to this casual observer) to have reversed that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree there was a period when Assad appeared strengthened for the reasons you suggest, JQ, but the Lebenese situation seems (to this casual observer) to have reversed that.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145394</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145394</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Not really, but the Christian Armageddonists come pretty close. They really are hoping for the world to come to an end.

Is Bush one of them? I don’t know, and neither does he. I doubt that he thinks of them as suicidal lunatics, though; he seems quite respectful of them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;
Before the folks whitewashed whitehouse.gov, I used to have a link to a speech bush gave in his first term to some fundies where he bragged that when the rapture comes, the whitehouse will be &quot;unmanned.&quot;

I suspect that the real reason that North Korea is allowed to have nukes isn&#039;t that they lack oil, it is more that there is exactly no mention of NK in the bible. But Babylon (in what is now called Iraq) gets lots of mention in the bible.

The rapturists reject that dirty resurrection bit from the bible: they want to be whisked up to heaven straight away. Avoiding the messy bit of dieing. That&#039;s why &lt;em&gt;left behind&lt;/em&gt; is such a popular series of books among the rapturists. Mr Clark, over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Slacktivist&lt;/a&gt;, does a good job of deconstructing just what nonsense is going on in &lt;em&gt;left behind&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em><blockquote>Not really, but the Christian Armageddonists come pretty close. They really are hoping for the world to come to an end.</blockquote></em></p>

	<p>Is Bush one of them? I don&#8217;t know, and neither does he. I doubt that he thinks of them as suicidal lunatics, though; he seems quite respectful of them.<br />
Before the folks whitewashed whitehouse.gov, I used to have a link to a speech bush gave in his first term to some fundies where he bragged that when the rapture comes, the whitehouse will be &#8220;unmanned.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I suspect that the real reason that North Korea is allowed to have nukes isn&#8217;t that they lack oil, it is more that there is exactly no mention of NK in the bible. But Babylon (in what is now called Iraq) gets lots of mention in the bible.</p>

	<p>The rapturists reject that dirty resurrection bit from the bible: they want to be whisked up to heaven straight away. Avoiding the messy bit of dieing. That&#8217;s why <em>left behind</em> is such a popular series of books among the rapturists. Mr Clark, over at <a href="http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/" rel="nofollow">Slacktivist</a>, does a good job of deconstructing just what nonsense is going on in <em>left behind</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145346</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145346</guid>
		<description>&quot;Like who? Iran, yes. Syria? Doesn’t seem like it.&quot;

I think that Assad is better off thanks to the invasion. He clearly has something to bargain with now (making life easy/hard for Baathist exiles/foreign jihadis). And foreign threats of invasion always shore up an incumbent government even if (as Assad has surely realised by now) there&#039;s very little chance that they will be followed up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Like who? Iran, yes. Syria? Doesn&#8217;t seem like it.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I think that Assad is better off thanks to the invasion. He clearly has something to bargain with now (making life easy/hard for Baathist exiles/foreign jihadis). And foreign threats of invasion always shore up an incumbent government even if (as Assad has surely realised by now) there&#8217;s very little chance that they will be followed up.</p>
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		<title>By: W. Kiernan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145300</link>
		<dc:creator>W. Kiernan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145300</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;brendan:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;...it&#039;s much more likely that any attack will be carried out by some &#039;friend&#039; of the US (perhaps even Israel) in order to stop Iraq simply exploding in a wave of anti-US sentiment.&lt;/i&gt;

Right!  The Islamic masses are currently blaming the government of the U.S.A. for a private newspaper in &lt;i&gt;Denmark&lt;/i&gt; having printed cartoons which offended their princess-and-the-pea-sensitive sensibilities.  But here you imagine they aren&#039;t going to blame the U.S.A. when Israel, recipient of several billion dollars every year in U.S. military subsidies, launches a massive bombing campaign in Iran, incidentally wiping out thousands of Iranian civilians - no, certainly the sensible, level-headed Moslems will say, &quot;Hey, now, let&#039;s not get irrational; those were &lt;i&gt;Israeli&lt;/i&gt; F-16s that blew up and/or irradiated my co-religionists; why in Heaven should we be upset with those nice Americans?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>brendan:</b> <i>&#8230;it&#8217;s much more likely that any attack will be carried out by some &#8216;friend&#8217; of the <span class="caps">US </span>(perhaps even Israel) in order to stop Iraq simply exploding in a wave of anti-US sentiment.</i></p>

	<p>Right!  The Islamic masses are currently blaming the government of the U.S.A. for a private newspaper in <i>Denmark</i> having printed cartoons which offended their princess-and-the-pea-sensitive sensibilities.  But here you imagine they aren&#8217;t going to blame the U.S.A. when Israel, recipient of several billion dollars every year in U.S. military subsidies, launches a massive bombing campaign in Iran, incidentally wiping out thousands of Iranian civilians &#8211; no, certainly the sensible, level-headed Moslems will say, &#8220;Hey, now, let&#8217;s not get irrational; those were <i>Israeli</i> F-16s that blew up and/or irradiated my co-religionists; why in Heaven should we be upset with those nice Americans?&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145215</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145215</guid>
		<description>ps -- OOPS. Forgot to put in: replying to #2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ps&#8212;<span class="caps">OOPS</span>. Forgot to put in: replying to #2.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145212</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145212</guid>
		<description>Actually, it is a myth that the U.S. is generously aiding the Iraqi economy. On the contrary, Iraq would be a good bet for loans on a large scale by emerging markets investors. which would be more efficiently spent and contain inducements that would lead to more productive economic activity, instead of the rentseeking the U.S. is presently encouraging  -- plus, there is a huge surplus of money held by the Gulf States at the moment which is just aching to find an investment outlet.  A U.S. withdrawal would radically change Kuwait&#039;s compass points -- once again, Kuwait would have to consider making the kind of loans to Iraq that it made in the 80s, when Kuwait feared Iran. After all, Sadr has made noises himself about Kuwait&#039;s rightful place as part of Eretz Iraq. A theme in Iraqi politics going back to the 50s. I imagine Kuwait would shrewdly view it as in its self interest not to allow Iraq to get desperate ... 

The U.S. occupation has stunted Iraq economically -- as imperialists normally do stunt the colonial peripheries they deign to occupy. Surely among the great benefits that will accrue to Iraq when the U.S. leaves will be resuming its old economic policies, which were, pre-80s, extremely successful. Who knows, someday the Iraqis might even get back the petty cash -- the 8 billion or so - the Americans stole from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually, it is a myth that the U.S. is generously aiding the Iraqi economy. On the contrary, Iraq would be a good bet for loans on a large scale by emerging markets investors. which would be more efficiently spent and contain inducements that would lead to more productive economic activity, instead of the rentseeking the U.S. is presently encouraging &#8212;plus, there is a huge surplus of money held by the Gulf States at the moment which is just aching to find an investment outlet.  <span class="caps">A U</span>.S. withdrawal would radically change Kuwait&#8217;s compass points&#8212;once again, Kuwait would have to consider making the kind of loans to Iraq that it made in the 80s, when Kuwait feared Iran. After all, Sadr has made noises himself about Kuwait&#8217;s rightful place as part of Eretz Iraq. A theme in Iraqi politics going back to the 50s. I imagine Kuwait would shrewdly view it as in its self interest not to allow Iraq to get desperate &#8230;</p>

	<p>The U.S. occupation has stunted Iraq economically&#8212;as imperialists normally do stunt the colonial peripheries they deign to occupy. Surely among the great benefits that will accrue to Iraq when the U.S. leaves will be resuming its old economic policies, which were, pre-80s, extremely successful. Who knows, someday the Iraqis might even get back the petty cash&#8212;the 8 billion or so &#8211; the Americans stole from them.</p>
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		<title>By: Erstwhile</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145202</link>
		<dc:creator>Erstwhile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145202</guid>
		<description>How is it obvious that the US right, the Israeli right and the Iranian right would not all plausibly derive at least a near-term benefit from &#039;&lt;i&gt;a wave of anti-US sentiment&lt;/i&gt;?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How is it obvious that the US right, the Israeli right and the Iranian right would not all plausibly derive at least a near-term benefit from &#8216;<i>a wave of anti-US sentiment</i>?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145189</guid>
		<description>Just to keep you all informed: the Iraqi PM seems strangely unimpressed by the US government&#039;s decision that it ought to decide who is in the Iraqi cabinet. What&#039;s wrong with him? Doesn&#039;t he understand democracy? The Iraqis do get to vote in US elections, right? 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1714607,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to keep you all informed: the Iraqi PM seems strangely unimpressed by the US government&#8217;s decision that it ought to decide who is in the Iraqi cabinet. What&#8217;s wrong with him? Doesn&#8217;t he understand democracy? The Iraqis do get to vote in US elections, right?</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1714607,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1714607,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145174</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145174</guid>
		<description>Yes, only the US is ruled by suicidal lunatics.

Not really, but the Christian Armageddonists come pretty close. They really are hoping for the world to come to an end. 

Is Bush one of them? I don&#039;t know, and neither does he. I doubt that he thinks of them as suicidal lunatics, though; he seems quite respectful of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, only the US is ruled by suicidal lunatics.</p>

	<p>Not really, but the Christian Armageddonists come pretty close. They really are hoping for the world to come to an end.</p>

	<p>Is Bush one of them? I don&#8217;t know, and neither does he. I doubt that he thinks of them as suicidal lunatics, though; he seems quite respectful of them.</p>
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		<title>By: chris y</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145172</link>
		<dc:creator>chris y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145172</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s quite possible to imagine a government in either Britain or Israel in the near future which is cynical and amoral. It&#039;s much harder to imagine one that is entirely made up of suicidal lunatics and commands a majority of suicidal lunatics in Parliament/Knesset. So I think we can safely rule out either of those countries unilaterally attacking Iran for the benefit of the US State Department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s quite possible to imagine a government in either Britain or Israel in the near future which is cynical and amoral. It&#8217;s much harder to imagine one that is entirely made up of suicidal lunatics and commands a majority of suicidal lunatics in Parliament/Knesset. So I think we can safely rule out either of those countries unilaterally attacking Iran for the benefit of the <span class="caps">US </span>State Department.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145168</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145168</guid>
		<description>&quot;The US has deprived itself of any practical option of using military force to stop Iran developing real nuclear weapons&quot;.

Bush doesn&#039;t know that, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The US has deprived itself of any practical option of using military force to stop Iran developing real nuclear weapons&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Bush doesn&#8217;t know that, though.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145166</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145166</guid>
		<description>JQ,

&quot;the occupation of Iraq has strengthened the position of every anti-American government in the region&quot;

Like who? Iran, yes. Syria? Doesn&#039;t seem like it. What other &quot;anti-American governments&quot; are there?

&quot;the US has deprived itself of any practical option of using military force to stop Iran developing real nuclear weapons&quot;

Do you say this is a bad thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JQ,</p>

	<p>&#8220;the occupation of Iraq has strengthened the position of every anti-American government in the region&#8221;</p>

	<p>Like who? Iran, yes. Syria? Doesn&#8217;t seem like it. What other &#8220;anti-American governments&#8221; are there?</p>

	<p>&#8220;the US has deprived itself of any practical option of using military force to stop Iran developing real nuclear weapons&#8221;</p>

	<p>Do you say this is a bad thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/comment-page-1/#comment-145162</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/02/21/the-kingmaker/#comment-145162</guid>
		<description>By the way, jet, what Iran is trying to do at the moment is enrich uranium. Enriched uranium is a dual-use product - you either put it in a bomb or you put it in a reactor. It&#039;s good for both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>By the way, jet, what Iran is trying to do at the moment is enrich uranium. Enriched uranium is a dual-use product &#8211; you either put it in a bomb or you put it in a reactor. It&#8217;s good for both.</p>
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