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	<title>Comments on: Wikipedia and sausages</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Korner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146451</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Korner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 18:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146451</guid>
		<description>Eszter etc.:  If &quot;vanity posts&quot; did not create controversy that required the editorial attention of Wikiarchons then I think that it would be mostly unobjectionable.  As I understand it, the problem comes when entries that are not much viewed create Wikiwars that suck editorial resources from more widely viewed entries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eszter etc.:  If &#8220;vanity posts&#8221; did not create controversy that required the editorial attention of Wikiarchons then I think that it would be mostly unobjectionable.  As I understand it, the problem comes when entries that are not much viewed create Wikiwars that suck editorial resources from more widely viewed entries.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted McManus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146393</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted McManus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146393</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snausages</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snausages" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snausages</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob mcmanus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146389</link>
		<dc:creator>bob mcmanus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 14:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146389</guid>
		<description>I use two other Web encyclopedias regularly, another occasionally:All Music Guide,IMDB, and Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. All have controversial content. AMG and Stanford are expert based, without reader input;IMDB puts controversy into the review section.

I would put Amazon into that class, except they really provide very little useful author information;very disappointing.

It might be interesting to compare these projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I use two other Web encyclopedias regularly, another occasionally:All Music Guide,IMDB, and Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. All have controversial content. <span class="caps">AMG</span> and Stanford are expert based, without reader input;IMDB puts controversy into the review section.</p>

	<p>I would put Amazon into that class, except they really provide very little useful author information;very disappointing.</p>

	<p>It might be interesting to compare these projects.</p>
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		<title>By: agm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146355</link>
		<dc:creator>agm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146355</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sausage</a></p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146354</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146354</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It cannot be cited in any scholarly way, since a given article may have changed beyond recognition at any time.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d suggest that in most academic settings, a citation of &lt;i&gt;Britannica&lt;/i&gt; would be no less frowned upon, unless it were in the context of the encyclopaedia as a historical primary text -- i.e. the  Thirteenth Edition&#039;s entry on psychoanalysis, written by a certain S. Freud.

The point of an encylopaedia is to set you on your way, ideally in the right direction. And Wikipedia seems fairly good at that task.

&lt;i&gt;I’ve been wondering when somebody – Google or Microsoft – would set up an edited edition of Wikipedia.&lt;/i&gt;

I believe that &#039;Jimbo&#039; Wales has proposed &#039;version freezes&#039; along the lines of software versioning that could be categorised as &#039;editions&#039; and released in some form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It cannot be cited in any scholarly way, since a given article may have changed beyond recognition at any time.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;d suggest that in most academic settings, a citation of <i>Britannica</i> would be no less frowned upon, unless it were in the context of the encyclopaedia as a historical primary text&#8212;i.e. the  Thirteenth Edition&#8217;s entry on psychoanalysis, written by a certain S. Freud.</p>

	<p>The point of an encylopaedia is to set you on your way, ideally in the right direction. And Wikipedia seems fairly good at that task.</p>

	<p><i>I&#8217;ve been wondering when somebody &#8211; Google or Microsoft &#8211; would set up an edited edition of Wikipedia.</i></p>

	<p>I believe that &#8216;Jimbo&#8217; Wales has proposed &#8216;version freezes&#8217; along the lines of software versioning that could be categorised as &#8216;editions&#8217; and released in some form.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry (not the famous one)</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146352</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry (not the famous one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 06:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146352</guid>
		<description>Back to sausages: and the making of sausages is fascinating, not repellent. When I toured Farmer John&#039;s disassembly plant in Vernon, California some years ago (you outsiders might remember it from the murals used in Carrie), I thought it was a model for early 20th century technology, in which nothing was wasted: the blood was collected for fertilizer, the heads were either sold whole or chiseled for meat, offal was used for god knows what. Everything but the oink as they say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Back to sausages: and the making of sausages is fascinating, not repellent. When I toured Farmer John&#8217;s disassembly plant in Vernon, California some years ago (you outsiders might remember it from the murals used in Carrie), I thought it was a model for early 20th century technology, in which nothing was wasted: the blood was collected for fertilizer, the heads were either sold whole or chiseled for meat, offal was used for god knows what. Everything but the oink as they say.</p>
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		<title>By: Randolph Fritz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146351</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolph Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 06:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146351</guid>
		<description>...and you can&#039;t document any designs of living architects.  Even 50-year dead ones, you&#039;ll have to take your own pictures and make your drawings.  There are almost no good free photographs of living people, so forget photos for bio articles; even photos of dead people are encumbered, unless you make your own copies from primary sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8230;and you can&#8217;t document any designs of living architects.  Even 50-year dead ones, you&#8217;ll have to take your own pictures and make your drawings.  There are almost no good free photographs of living people, so forget photos for bio articles; even photos of dead people are encumbered, unless you make your own copies from primary sources.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146345</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146345</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been cataloguing comic books for the library I work at and to my surprise and delight, Wikipedia has the most comprehesive bibliographies (many of them annotated) for all the major characters and titles. It&#039;s exhaustive and awe inspiring, at least in this librarian&#039;s opinion. Brittanica? They wouldn&#039;t touch icky comic books with an eleven and a half foot pole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve been cataloguing comic books for the library I work at and to my surprise and delight, Wikipedia has the most comprehesive bibliographies (many of them annotated) for all the major characters and titles. It&#8217;s exhaustive and awe inspiring, at least in this librarian&#8217;s opinion. Brittanica? They wouldn&#8217;t touch icky comic books with an eleven and a half foot pole.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146343</guid>
		<description>I happen to be writing a lot about electrcity issues in a technical manner (e.g. reactive power, or static var compensators).  I did a degree in electrical engineering a few years back, so quite often I find I know something, but I&#039;m not sure how to explain it in words.  Wikipedia is very good for this and much more detailed than any other encyclopedia I&#039;ve had the pleasure of using.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I happen to be writing a lot about electrcity issues in a technical manner (e.g. reactive power, or static var compensators).  I did a degree in electrical engineering a few years back, so quite often I find I know something, but I&#8217;m not sure how to explain it in words.  Wikipedia is very good for this and much more detailed than any other encyclopedia I&#8217;ve had the pleasure of using.</p>
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		<title>By: Hedley Lamarr</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146331</link>
		<dc:creator>Hedley Lamarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146331</guid>
		<description>The more I read Wikepedia, the more I like it, especially for non-controversial topics. 

Sausages, by the way, have been unhappily given a bad name over the years. They are often good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The more I read Wikepedia, the more I like it, especially for non-controversial topics.</p>

	<p>Sausages, by the way, have been unhappily given a bad name over the years. They are often good.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Goard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146327</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Goard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 23:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146327</guid>
		<description>My biggest Wikipedia battle (actually Wiktionary) was over the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hella&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;entry for &quot;hella&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m a former grad student in linguistics, and a native Northern Californian of the appropriate age, and even someone who has researched intensifiers and probably conversant with &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of the sparse published linguistics literature on &quot;hella&quot;.  As you might expect, the authentic examples in the current incarnation of the entry are mostly my work, as is the sole link to an abstract.  I had to fight to save (something like) my part-of-speech classification, but have given up on getting rid of some clear errors.  (Most notably the belief -- by outsiders or by linguistically ignorant insiders -- that &quot;hella&quot; can be described as a contraction of &quot;hell of a&quot;.  The syntactic positions in which they can occur are too profoundly different.  Far more likely is an extension of the construction that many other dialects share in &quot;sorta&quot; and &quot;kinda&quot;.)

But what gets me the most is what happened to a brief sociolinguistic passage I wrote, referencing two cases of stigma: a &quot;South Park&quot; episode where the obnoxious Eric Cartman annoys the other kids (in Colorado, if you didn&#039;t know) by excessively using &quot;hella&quot;; and a T-shirt seen around Southern Californian campuses that read, &quot;NorCal hella sucks!&quot;  Apparently this passage got removed because &quot;two anecdotes don&#039;t count as an established sociological fact&quot; or some such.  Well, see for yourself what&#039;s up there now.

In short, the wasted effort and lingering frustration has left me a bit jaded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My biggest Wikipedia battle (actually Wiktionary) was over the <a href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hella" rel="nofollow">entry for &#8220;hella&#8221;</a>.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m a former grad student in linguistics, and a native Northern Californian of the appropriate age, and even someone who has researched intensifiers and probably conversant with <i>all</i> of the sparse published linguistics literature on &#8220;hella&#8221;.  As you might expect, the authentic examples in the current incarnation of the entry are mostly my work, as is the sole link to an abstract.  I had to fight to save (something like) my part-of-speech classification, but have given up on getting rid of some clear errors.  (Most notably the belief&#8212;by outsiders or by linguistically ignorant insiders&#8212;that &#8220;hella&#8221; can be described as a contraction of &#8220;hell of a&#8221;.  The syntactic positions in which they can occur are too profoundly different.  Far more likely is an extension of the construction that many other dialects share in &#8220;sorta&#8221; and &#8220;kinda&#8221;.)</p>

	<p>But what gets me the most is what happened to a brief sociolinguistic passage I wrote, referencing two cases of stigma: a &#8220;South Park&#8221; episode where the obnoxious Eric Cartman annoys the other kids (in Colorado, if you didn&#8217;t know) by excessively using &#8220;hella&#8221;; and a T-shirt seen around Southern Californian campuses that read, &#8220;NorCal hella sucks!&#8221;  Apparently this passage got removed because &#8220;two anecdotes don&#8217;t count as an established sociological fact&#8221; or some such.  Well, see for yourself what&#8217;s up there now.</p>

	<p>In short, the wasted effort and lingering frustration has left me a bit jaded.</p>
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		<title>By: tom van dyke</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146324</link>
		<dc:creator>tom van dyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146324</guid>
		<description>I like the &lt;i&gt;Wiki&lt;/i&gt;.  Not only does it feature the conventional wisdom, it also &quot;teaches the controversy.&quot;

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I like the <i>Wiki</i>.  Not only does it feature the conventional wisdom, it also &#8220;teaches the controversy.&#8221;</p>

	<p>;-)</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146322</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146322</guid>
		<description>Another strength of Wikipedia is that it is an international project, at least more so then standard encyclopedias. Which means that you get more than just an American centered or, uh, Britannica centered view of the world.

(It&#039;s true that a formal encyclopedia might invite foreign scholars&#039; contributions, but there&#039;s likely to be some serious selection bias, as those invited will largely reflect the views of the inviters)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another strength of Wikipedia is that it is an international project, at least more so then standard encyclopedias. Which means that you get more than just an American centered or, uh, Britannica centered view of the world.</p>

	<p>(It&#8217;s true that a formal encyclopedia might invite foreign scholars&#8217; contributions, but there&#8217;s likely to be some serious selection bias, as those invited will largely reflect the views of the inviters)</p>
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		<title>By: Simstim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146321</link>
		<dc:creator>Simstim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146321</guid>
		<description>By #30, I apparently meant #31!  I&#039;m finding CT&#039;s commenting system&#039;s habit of inserting comments at semi-random places more than slightly annoying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>By #30, I apparently meant #31!  I&#8217;m finding CT&#8217;s commenting system&#8217;s habit of inserting comments at semi-random places more than slightly annoying.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/comment-page-1/#comment-146320</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/01/wikipedia-and-sausages/#comment-146320</guid>
		<description>Yeah, if you really want to know about a particular topic, rather than just surfing around to pick up on stuff you never knew was interesting, definetly read the talk pages. Sometimes there&#039;s more info there then in the actual articles.

And the strength of Wiki is definetly in its breadth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, if you really want to know about a particular topic, rather than just surfing around to pick up on stuff you never knew was interesting, definetly read the talk pages. Sometimes there&#8217;s more info there then in the actual articles.</p>

	<p>And the strength of Wiki is definetly in its breadth</p>
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