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	<title>Comments on: Marx and economic nationalism</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Mr Ripley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146709</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 06:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nine hundred years after the Crusades, Jesus still has His apologists:  these things take a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nine hundred years after the Crusades, Jesus still has His apologists:  these things take a while.</p>
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		<title>By: snuh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146694</link>
		<dc:creator>snuh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>steve, as a general rule, anyone who mentions walter duranty is living in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>steve, as a general rule, anyone who mentions walter duranty is living in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt Pohl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146675</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt Pohl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Steve: The truth means nothing to you, does it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Steve: The truth means nothing to you, does it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kervick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146669</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kervick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sorry about the garbled last paragraph in 24.  Here it is again:

That quote definitely does show the writer making a more typical &lt;i&gt;Economist&lt;/i&gt;-style point: that any ideas of which Marx would approve are thereby bad. The title, however, seems aimed more at hoisting leftists on their own ideological petard, and pointing out that even the leftist Marx thought the argument for domestic vs. foreign ownership was based on a canard. Could it be that the titlewriter and the author are not exactly on the same page?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry about the garbled last paragraph in 24.  Here it is again:</p>

	<p>That quote definitely does show the writer making a more typical <i>Economist</i>-style point: that any ideas of which Marx would approve are thereby bad. The title, however, seems aimed more at hoisting leftists on their own ideological petard, and pointing out that even the leftist Marx thought the argument for domestic vs. foreign ownership was based on a canard. Could it be that the titlewriter and the author are not exactly on the same page?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kervick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146667</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kervick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146667</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Granted, fully interpreting The Economist requires years of austere training. Nonetheless this later passage from the same leader tells decisively for Henry’s reading and against Dan’s:

“The idea that it is somehow in the French national interest that a utility should not become owned by an Italian firm, or in the American interest that ports be kept out of Arab hands, is one to gladden the heart of Karl Marx. His view was that ownership, and hence the power to exploit, was all; hence socialist governments’ fateful desire to nationalise the ‘commanding heights’ of their own economies.”&lt;/i&gt;

That quote definitely does show the writer making a more typical &lt;i&gt;Economist&lt;/i&gt;-style point: that any ideas of which Marx would approve are thereby &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt;.  The title, however, seems aimed more at hoisting leftists on their own ideological petard, and pointing out that even the leftist Marx thought the argument for domestic vs. foreign ownership was based on a canard. Could it be that the title-writer and the author are not exactly on the same page?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Granted, fully interpreting The Economist requires years of austere training. Nonetheless this later passage from the same leader tells decisively for Henry&#8217;s reading and against Dan&#8217;s:</i></p>

	<p>&#8220;The idea that it is somehow in the French national interest that a utility should not become owned by an Italian firm, or in the American interest that ports be kept out of Arab hands, is one to gladden the heart of Karl Marx. His view was that ownership, and hence the power to exploit, was all; hence socialist governments&#8217; fateful desire to nationalise the &#8216;commanding heights&#8217; of their own economies.&#8221;</p>

	<p>That quote definitely does show the writer making a more typical <i>Economist</i><del>style point: that any ideas of which Marx would approve are thereby <i>bad</i>.  The title, however, seems aimed more at hoisting leftists on their own ideological petard, and pointing out that even the leftist Marx thought the argument for domestic vs. foreign ownership was based on a canard. Could it be that the title</del>writer and the author are not exactly on the same page?</p>
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		<title>By: hirvi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146646</link>
		<dc:creator>hirvi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146646</guid>
		<description>&quot;Lazy journalism (which is quite untypical for the Economist)&quot;

Untypical?

Excuse me, but that rag encouraged Americans to vote GW Bush, and supported the Iraq war when it was still in the incubation phase (and thereafter).

Most people I know think many &lt;i&gt;Economist&lt;/i&gt; articles are written by interns, and not read through by adults.

Needless to say, few of us subscribe any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Lazy journalism (which is quite untypical for the Economist)&#8221;</p>

	<p>Untypical?</p>

	<p>Excuse me, but that rag encouraged Americans to vote <span class="caps">GW </span>Bush, and supported the Iraq war when it was still in the incubation phase (and thereafter).</p>

	<p>Most people I know think many <i>Economist</i> articles are written by interns, and not read through by adults.</p>

	<p>Needless to say, few of us subscribe any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146645</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good Lord.  Am I really reading an academic blog that is still, 15 years after the wall, 50 years after Stalin, and 150 years after the old fool himself, defending Karl Marx? Next up: &quot;no, really.  Walter Duranty was right in his own way...&quot;  Sheesh.  And they say conservatives are stuck in the past.

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Good Lord.  Am I really reading an academic blog that is still, 15 years after the wall, 50 years after Stalin, and 150 years after the old fool himself, defending Karl Marx? Next up: &#8220;no, really.  Walter Duranty was right in his own way&#8230;&#8221;  Sheesh.  And they say conservatives are stuck in the past.</p>

	<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Easwaran</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146641</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Easwaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 09:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146641</guid>
		<description>But the Economist would &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; engage in the misinterpretation of Karl Marx!

Actually, seeing the quote there, I had the thought that Dan did in #16 - that quote looks to me to say that Marx is suggesting that &lt;i&gt;blocking&lt;/i&gt; foreign takeovers is deceitful, and that thus we should support free trade.  Of course, I haven&#039;t either read the article or the Marx passage they&#039;re quoting, so I shouldn&#039;t say anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But the Economist would <i>never</i> engage in the misinterpretation of Karl Marx!</p>

	<p>Actually, seeing the quote there, I had the thought that Dan did in #16 &#8211; that quote looks to me to say that Marx is suggesting that <i>blocking</i> foreign takeovers is deceitful, and that thus we should support free trade.  Of course, I haven&#8217;t either read the article or the Marx passage they&#8217;re quoting, so I shouldn&#8217;t say anything.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Goard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146638</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Goard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 06:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146638</guid>
		<description>Strange how Marx has become to economics what Hitler is to ethics.  True, relative to widespread advances in mathematics and philosophy, it does astound me that any version of the labor theory of value (and hence, the exploitation theory of capital) was taken seriously by the nineteenth century.  But to see such a complex intellectual used as a totem of evil, is appalling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Strange how Marx has become to economics what Hitler is to ethics.  True, relative to widespread advances in mathematics and philosophy, it does astound me that any version of the labor theory of value (and hence, the exploitation theory of capital) was taken seriously by the nineteenth century.  But to see such a complex intellectual used as a totem of evil, is appalling.</p>
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		<title>By: theogon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146636</link>
		<dc:creator>theogon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 06:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;em&gt;How many historical and conceptual errors can be squeezed into a couple of sentences? We should have a contest.&lt;/em&gt;

Horowitz, et. al. would obviously win, especially if the subject veers anywhere near the views of leftist theoreticians. A more interesting contest would be exclusive to sources like &lt;em&gt;The Economist&lt;/em&gt;, who should know better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>How many historical and conceptual errors can be squeezed into a couple of sentences? We should have a contest.</em></p>

	<p>Horowitz, et. al. would obviously win, especially if the subject veers anywhere near the views of leftist theoreticians. A more interesting contest would be exclusive to sources like <em>The Economist</em>, who should know better.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146626</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 04:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146626</guid>
		<description>Granted, fully interpreting _The Economist_  requires years of austere training.  Nonetheless this later passage from the same leader tells decisively for Henry&#039;s reading and against Dan&#039;s:

&quot;The idea that it is somehow in the French national interest that a utility should not become owned by an Italian firm, or in the American interest that ports be kept out of Arab hands, is one to gladden the heart of Karl Marx.  His view was that ownership, and hence the power to exploit, was all; hence socialist governments&#039; fateful desire to nationalise the &#039;commanding heights&#039; of their own economies.&quot;

How many historical and conceptual errors can be squeezed into a couple of sentences?  We should have a contest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Granted, fully interpreting <em>The Economist</em>  requires years of austere training.  Nonetheless this later passage from the same leader tells decisively for Henry&#8217;s reading and against Dan&#8217;s:</p>

	<p>&#8220;The idea that it is somehow in the French national interest that a utility should not become owned by an Italian firm, or in the American interest that ports be kept out of Arab hands, is one to gladden the heart of Karl Marx.  His view was that ownership, and hence the power to exploit, was all; hence socialist governments&#8217; fateful desire to nationalise the &#8216;commanding heights&#8217; of their own economies.&#8221;</p>

	<p>How many historical and conceptual errors can be squeezed into a couple of sentences?  We should have a contest.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Wisse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146622</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146622</guid>
		<description>Yes, I&#039;m with Dan; I didn&#039;t see the howler either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, I&#8217;m with Dan; I didn&#8217;t see the howler either.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kervick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146612</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kervick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Mar 2006 00:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4388#comment-146612</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Rather unfortunately for the leader writer, who seems never to have read Marx, there’s no support in Marx’s writings for economic patriotism or for defending national interests. Indeed, if you care to consult the man’s works, Marx was enthusiastically in favour of the bourgeoisie’s penchant for ripping down barriers to international exchange.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m puzzled Henry.  Isn&#039;t that precisely the leader writer&#039;s point?  Granted, it is odd for &lt;i&gt;The Economist&lt;/i&gt;, of all magazines, to trot out Marx to provide rhetorical ammunition in support of some point they want to make.  But I took it that the writer was suggesting that, according to Marx, protectionist efforts to thwart foreign takeovers are not genuinely motivated by lofty conceptions of the &quot;national interest&quot;, but are really just dishonest and deceptive populist appeals by domestic capitalists aimed at protecting their own private interests.

The writer&#039;s somewhat ham-handed rhetorical strategy here seems to be to resist economic nationalism coming from the left by noting that even a presumed &quot;hero of the left&quot; like Marx thought economic nationalism was a scam.

Of course &lt;i&gt;The Economist&lt;/i&gt; wants to turn that point about the politics of domestic capitalism toward the defense of globlization, wheras Marx would have thought that globalized capitalism is no better, or less deceptive and exploitative, than the domestic variety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Rather unfortunately for the leader writer, who seems never to have read Marx, there&#8217;s no support in Marx&#8217;s writings for economic patriotism or for defending national interests. Indeed, if you care to consult the man&#8217;s works, Marx was enthusiastically in favour of the bourgeoisie&#8217;s penchant for ripping down barriers to international exchange.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;m puzzled Henry.  Isn&#8217;t that precisely the leader writer&#8217;s point?  Granted, it is odd for <i>The Economist</i>, of all magazines, to trot out Marx to provide rhetorical ammunition in support of some point they want to make.  But I took it that the writer was suggesting that, according to Marx, protectionist efforts to thwart foreign takeovers are not genuinely motivated by lofty conceptions of the &#8220;national interest&#8221;, but are really just dishonest and deceptive populist appeals by domestic capitalists aimed at protecting their own private interests.</p>

	<p>The writer&#8217;s somewhat ham-handed rhetorical strategy here seems to be to resist economic nationalism coming from the left by noting that even a presumed &#8220;hero of the left&#8221; like Marx thought economic nationalism was a scam.</p>

	<p>Of course <i>The Economist</i> wants to turn that point about the politics of domestic capitalism toward the defense of globlization, wheras Marx would have thought that globalized capitalism is no better, or less deceptive and exploitative, than the domestic variety.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Green</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146609</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Marxism&quot; is just a convenient smear to throw at people whose economic views they don&#039;t like. It&#039;s not rational. They wouldn&#039;t associate Marxism with forms of state intervention that they like, like patents, or R&amp;D subsidies disguised as &quot;military spending&quot;, because that would obviously be absurd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Marxism&#8221; is just a convenient smear to throw at people whose economic views they don&#8217;t like. It&#8217;s not rational. They wouldn&#8217;t associate Marxism with forms of state intervention that they like, like patents, or R&#038;D subsidies disguised as &#8220;military spending&#8221;, because that would obviously be absurd.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/04/marx-and-economic-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-146608</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s a widespread confusion, one of whose roots may be the tendency for some contemporary antglobalizationists to mix rhetoric from the socialist, nationalist, and social-conservative traditions. I just had a weird exchange on Timothy Shortell&#039;s blog with an anonymous economist who admitted he&#039;d read no heterodox economics at all, but who was nonetheless convinced that its essence was hostility to markets.

Possibly some people also confuse Marx with central planning, and so construct a market-antimarket divide that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s a widespread confusion, one of whose roots may be the tendency for some contemporary antglobalizationists to mix rhetoric from the socialist, nationalist, and social-conservative traditions. I just had a weird exchange on Timothy Shortell&#8217;s blog with an anonymous economist who admitted he&#8217;d read no heterodox economics at all, but who was nonetheless convinced that its essence was hostility to markets.</p>

	<p>Possibly some people also confuse Marx with central planning, and so construct a market-antimarket divide that way.</p>
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