Comments on: The invention of tradition (karate edition) http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:16:39 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147172 John Emerson Fri, 10 Mar 2006 02:50:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147172 No, Bjork is right. The Icelanders have been getting shitfaced for a thousand years. Fact. No, Bjork is right. The Icelanders have been getting shitfaced for a thousand years. Fact.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147168 John Quiggin Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:14:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147168 Quite right, Kwanzaa. In fact <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2004/12/24/christmas-as-usual/" rel="nofollow">Christmas</a> is the classic example of a tradition invented in the 19th century. Quite right, Kwanzaa. In fact Christmas is the classic example of a tradition invented in the 19th century.

]]> By: kwanzaa http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147149 kwanzaa Thu, 09 Mar 2006 20:07:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147149 I think this is a good argument for Kwanzaa. Some people look down on Kwanzaa claiming it is a "made up holiday" and hence lacks the authenticity of "real holidays." But if the majority of traditions are of such recent vintage, then this argument completely falls apart. I'm just saying ... I think this is a good argument for Kwanzaa.

Some people look down on Kwanzaa claiming it is a “made up holiday” and hence lacks the authenticity of “real holidays.” But if the majority of traditions are of such recent vintage, then this argument completely falls apart.

I’m just saying …

]]> By: MDP http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147133 MDP Thu, 09 Mar 2006 16:50:20 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147133 "Many scholars" agree that only <a href="http://www.abirwarriorarts.com/history.htm" rel="nofollow">one genuinely ancient martial art</a> exists today: <blockquote>It is common knowledge that there are no nations whose martial systems have survived in an unbroken chain to remain in physical practice or in theory today as they were in ancient times. .... There is however one exception to this rule. It is the People of Israel. .... Many scholars have confirmed this. .... Twelve Tribes dance steps and the form and shapes of the Hebrew letters contained deadly martial applications forgotten by virtually the rest of the world's Jewry.</blockquote> “Many scholars” agree that only one genuinely ancient martial art exists today:

It is common knowledge that there are no nations whose martial systems have survived in an unbroken chain to remain in physical practice or in theory today as they were in ancient times. …. There is however one exception to this rule. It is the People of Israel. …. Many scholars have confirmed this. …. Twelve Tribes dance steps and the form and shapes of the Hebrew letters contained deadly martial applications forgotten by virtually the rest of the world’s Jewry.

]]> By: SusanC http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147099 SusanC Thu, 09 Mar 2006 00:11:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147099 I'd like to recommend Marshall Sahlin's essay on the invention of tradition in <a HREF="http://www.prickly-paradigm.com/paradigm1.pdf" rel="nofollow">Waiting for Foucault, Still</a> I’d like to recommend Marshall Sahlin’s essay on the invention of tradition in Waiting for Foucault, Still

]]> By: des von bladet http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147098 des von bladet Wed, 08 Mar 2006 23:45:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147098 Simstim: Nah, I'm pretty sure that was Marx. (And a pony!) Simstim: Nah, I’m pretty sure that was Marx. (And a pony!)

]]> By: Simstim http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147095 Simstim Wed, 08 Mar 2006 22:11:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147095 Des, surely you mean robot-pirate-ninjas... with lasers! Des, surely you mean robot-pirate-ninjas… with lasers!

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147087 John Emerson Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:03:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147087 "I come from a country where, from the age of 15, you drink a litre of Vodka every Friday straight from the bottle. I watched my Grandparents doing that and it's my pattern, just like it's been my family's release for a thousands years. Alcohol is how people in Iceland lose themselves, switch their conscience off and run riot." <a href="http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/breakwater/2370/bjorkallweb_pages/bjorkigenic_biosphere.htm#" rel="nofollow">Accurate citation</a> “I come from a country where, from the age of 15, you drink a litre of Vodka every Friday straight from the bottle.

I watched my Grandparents doing that and it’s my pattern, just like it’s been my family’s release for a thousands years. Alcohol is how people in Iceland lose themselves, switch their conscience off and run riot.”

Accurate citation

]]> By: Kenny Easwaran http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147086 Kenny Easwaran Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:57:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147086 Is this really an effect of capitalism destroying ancient traditions, or rather just that traditions rarely get very ancient without having been transformed radically? I mean, try to think of Indian food without tomatoes, potatoes, and chili peppers - and that's what it was like just a couple hundred years ago! Is this really an effect of capitalism destroying ancient traditions, or rather just that traditions rarely get very ancient without having been transformed radically? I mean, try to think of Indian food without tomatoes, potatoes, and chili peppers – and that’s what it was like just a couple hundred years ago!

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147082 John Emerson Wed, 08 Mar 2006 20:45:31 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147082 Also Bruce Lincoln and Perry Anderson's brother. Bjork: "When I was in high school in Iceland, on Friday afternoon we'd buy a bottle of vodka and spend the weekend drinking it. This has been our tradition for a thousand years." Also Bruce Lincoln and Perry Anderson’s brother.

Bjork: “When I was in high school in Iceland, on Friday afternoon we’d buy a bottle of vodka and spend the weekend drinking it. This has been our tradition for a thousand years.”

]]> By: Nick Miller http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147073 Nick Miller Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:02:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147073 Wow, that ends that. Jim Harrison brought his silver bullet. ;) Wow, that ends that. Jim Harrison brought his silver bullet. ;)

]]> By: Jim Harrison http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147072 Jim Harrison Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:58:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147072 Ironically, the tradition of insisting that traditions are mostly recent is actually quite old. Centuries before Eric Hobsbawm, philologists like Lorenzo Valla and Isaac Casaubon were demonstrating that ancient texts weren't ancient at all. Ironically, the tradition of insisting that traditions are mostly recent is actually quite old. Centuries before Eric Hobsbawm, philologists like Lorenzo Valla and Isaac Casaubon were demonstrating that ancient texts weren’t ancient at all.

]]> By: des von bladet http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147068 des von bladet Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:32:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147068 As Hegel may or may not have said somewhere, "History repeats itself; the first time as an unregarded TV docu-drama, the second time with an elaborate pseudo-historical legitimation apparatus. And ninjas!" As Hegel may or may not have said somewhere, “History repeats itself; the first time as an unregarded TV docu-drama, the second time with an elaborate pseudo-historical legitimation apparatus. And ninjas!”

]]> By: Hogan http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147064 Hogan Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:35:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147064 <i>Or was Marx himself just an invention of the 19th century?</i> I thought it was the other way round. Or was Marx himself just an invention of the 19th century?

I thought it was the other way round.

]]> By: Peter http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-147060 Peter Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:11:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/08/the-invention-of-tradition-karate-edition/#comment-147060 Did not Karl Marx somewhere define "tradition" as "the collected errors of past generations"? Or was Marx himself just an invention of the 19th century? Did not Karl Marx somewhere define “tradition” as “the collected errors of past generations”? Or was Marx himself just an invention of the 19th century?

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