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	<title>Comments on: A Shameful Confession</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: brooksfoe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149567</link>
		<dc:creator>brooksfoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149567</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been looking and looking through my complete works of Diderot for anything about explosions or monkeys, and I&#039;m still not coming up with anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve been looking and looking through my complete works of Diderot for anything about explosions or monkeys, and I&#8217;m still not coming up with anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149514</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149514</guid>
		<description>Dr S - It was one post.  With 182 comments.  Followed soon after by another post.  With 55 comments.  And now this thread, which is not primarily about Hitchens but that hasn&#039;t deterred the usual obsessing.

It&#039;s not just the rote Hitchens-bashing.  I&#039;d react the same way in the case of a hate figure I feel less ambivalent about.  A thorough and measured demolition of Michelle Malkin&#039;s hypocrisies, yes; 100 comments offering minor variations on &quot;Malkin is a lying bitch&quot;, no.  You may feel differently.  And I&#039;d enjoy a joke about Malkin.  If it was a *good* joke.

I was aware of the earlier CT discussion you cite, Dr S.  I thought of mentioning it in my initial comment, but &quot;See how good you can do when you really try&quot; would have sounded a tad patronising...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dr S &#8211; It was one post.  With 182 comments.  Followed soon after by another post.  With 55 comments.  And now this thread, which is not primarily about Hitchens but that hasn&#8217;t deterred the usual obsessing.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s not just the rote Hitchens-bashing.  I&#8217;d react the same way in the case of a hate figure I feel less ambivalent about.  A thorough and measured demolition of Michelle Malkin&#8217;s hypocrisies, yes; 100 comments offering minor variations on &#8220;Malkin is a lying bitch&#8221;, no.  You may feel differently.  And I&#8217;d enjoy a joke about Malkin.  If it was a <strong>good</strong> joke.</p>

	<p>I was aware of the earlier CT discussion you cite, Dr S.  I thought of mentioning it in my initial comment, but &#8220;See how good you can do when you really try&#8221; would have sounded a tad patronising&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Slack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149502</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149502</guid>
		<description>Ian: And the appearance of a couple of posts joking about Hitchens prompts you to talk about &quot;limitless tolerance&quot; why, exactly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ian: And the appearance of a couple of posts joking about Hitchens prompts you to talk about &#8220;limitless tolerance&#8221; why, exactly?</p>
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		<title>By: Franco</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149501</link>
		<dc:creator>Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149501</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Nice try.&lt;/i&gt;

What you said, Jeremy.

I&#039;ve reread the original post and can find no indication that the poster was remotely aware of the allusion to Diderot/Meslier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Nice try.</i></p>

	<p>What you said, Jeremy.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve reread the original post and can find no indication that the poster was remotely aware of the allusion to Diderot/Meslier.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149499</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149499</guid>
		<description>Dr S - play me back the part of the tape where I said nobody should ever make fun of Hitchens.  What I *did* say was that playing to the gallery, and the gallery&#039;s response, pretty soon gets tiresome.  For some people.  For others, &quot;limitless tolerance&quot; etc etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dr S &#8211; play me back the part of the tape where I said nobody should ever make fun of Hitchens.  What I <strong>did</strong> say was that playing to the gallery, and the gallery&#8217;s response, pretty soon gets tiresome.  For some people.  For others, &#8220;limitless tolerance&#8221; etc etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor Slack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149477</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149477</guid>
		<description>Ian: &lt;i&gt;Some readers presumably have limitless tolerance for . . .&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, come off it. The CT that I&#039;ve been reading regularly has never been dedicated to utter humorlessness, and has been &quot;extracting and engaging with&quot; what passes for Hitchens&#039; arguments for &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/index.php?s=Hitchens&amp;paged=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quite a while&lt;/a&gt;. If you don&#039;t think they&#039;ve earned the right to a few jokes at the guy&#039;s expense, you haven&#039;t been paying attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ian: <i>Some readers presumably have limitless tolerance for . . .</i></p>

	<p>Oh, come off it. The CT that I&#8217;ve been reading regularly has never been dedicated to utter humorlessness, and has been &#8220;extracting and engaging with&#8221; what passes for Hitchens&#8217; arguments for <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/index.php?s=Hitchens&#038;paged=2" rel="nofollow">quite a while</a>. If you don&#8217;t think they&#8217;ve earned the right to a few jokes at the guy&#8217;s expense, you haven&#8217;t been paying attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149465</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149465</guid>
		<description>I think the point goes a bit beyond Hitchens being a &#039;wanker&#039; or not. The fact that one of the few literate proponents of the invasion increasingly sounds like a serial killer says a lot about the &#039;moral case for regime change.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the point goes a bit beyond Hitchens being a &#8216;wanker&#8217; or not. The fact that one of the few literate proponents of the invasion increasingly sounds like a serial killer says a lot about the &#8216;moral case for regime change.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149461</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149461</guid>
		<description>dear sweet holy gods of the internet! where is the html sarcasm tag when you need it? it&#039;s &lt;em&gt;supposed&lt;/em&gt; to be funny that I tediously and pompously quoted the french for no reason, because the original complaint was so....aw, fergettit. it&#039;s like casting squirrels before pine around here. jacob, if you scroll down you&#039;ll see me making fun of Christopher Hitchens for sounding like a barely repressed psychopath, and then other people getting angry because I didn&#039;t tell them in the post what he was quoting from in his bloody-minded eloquence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>dear sweet holy gods of the internet! where is the html sarcasm tag when you need it? it&#8217;s <em>supposed</em> to be funny that I tediously and pompously quoted the french for no reason, because the original complaint was so&#8230;.aw, fergettit. it&#8217;s like casting squirrels before pine around here. jacob, if you scroll down you&#8217;ll see me making fun of Christopher Hitchens for sounding like a barely repressed psychopath, and then other people getting angry because I didn&#8217;t tell them in the post what he was quoting from in his bloody-minded eloquence.</p>
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		<title>By: jacob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149460</link>
		<dc:creator>jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 05:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149460</guid>
		<description>If Bell is a wanker and a pseud for posting, what am I for failing entirely to understand what this post and the subsequent thread is about?  Other than clueless, that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If Bell is a wanker and a pseud for posting, what am I for failing entirely to understand what this post and the subsequent thread is about?  Other than clueless, that is.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149453</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149453</guid>
		<description>Belle - note that your citing the original French makes you both a wanker AND a pseud (Comment 9).

Larger point: Some readers presumably have limitless tolerance for these &quot;Hitchens is a wanker!&quot; schoolyard pile-ons.  And probably some don&#039;t.  Me, I read CT because it&#039;s one of the few political blogs in which the posts and comments (sometimes... occasionally) rise above prepared positions and shed a little light.  If I want a mob scene I can go to [insert blog-name of choice].  Hitchens is often wrong-headed and incoherent, but the ongoing fascination he still holds for you guys suggests that his arguments, rather than his soundbites, might actually be worth extracting and engaging with.  Silly, silly me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Belle &#8211; note that your citing the original French makes you both a wanker <span class="caps">AND</span> a pseud (Comment 9).</p>

	<p>Larger point: Some readers presumably have limitless tolerance for these &#8220;Hitchens is a wanker!&#8221; schoolyard pile-ons.  And probably some don&#8217;t.  Me, I read CT because it&#8217;s one of the few political blogs in which the posts and comments (sometimes&#8230; occasionally) rise above prepared positions and shed a little light.  If I want a mob scene I can go to [insert blog-name of choice].  Hitchens is often wrong-headed and incoherent, but the ongoing fascination he still holds for you guys suggests that his arguments, rather than his soundbites, might actually be worth extracting and engaging with.  Silly, silly me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149452</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149452</guid>
		<description>Nice try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nice try.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149443</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149443</guid>
		<description>&#039;However, I have decided never, ever to read another piece that refers to our “comrades”, the Kurds.&#039;

Chris Morris once had a good sketch in which AIDS suffers were divided into those who had &#039;good AIDS&#039; and &#039;bad AIDS&#039; (people with &#039;good aids&#039; had caught it in &#039;non-morally challenging ways&#039; (e.g. haemophiliacs) whereas people with &#039;bad aids&#039; caught it from gay sex). Likewise we always have to remember that there are &#039;good Kurds&#039; and &#039;bad Kurds&#039; for the Keyboard Kommandos. Good Kurds are in Iraq, bad Kurds are in Turkey (and non-existent Kurds are in Iran and Syria...most of the self-professed &#039;Kurd Lovers&#039; are actually unaware that there are Kurdish communities in these countries). 

In any case, a good way to shut them up is to ask: &#039;are you, or are you not, in favour of a Kurdish homeland?&#039; (i.e. a Kurdish state on the model of Israel). And remind them that the answer is either &#039;yes&#039; or &#039;no&#039; not some irrelevant waffle about minority rights etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;However, I have decided never, ever to read another piece that refers to our &#8220;comrades&#8221;, the Kurds.&#8217;</p>

	<p>Chris Morris once had a good sketch in which <span class="caps">AIDS</span> suffers were divided into those who had &#8216;good <span class="caps">AIDS</span>&#8217; and &#8216;bad <span class="caps">AIDS</span>&#8217; (people with &#8216;good aids&#8217; had caught it in &#8216;non-morally challenging ways&#8217; (e.g. haemophiliacs) whereas people with &#8216;bad aids&#8217; caught it from gay sex). Likewise we always have to remember that there are &#8216;good Kurds&#8217; and &#8216;bad Kurds&#8217; for the Keyboard Kommandos. Good Kurds are in Iraq, bad Kurds are in Turkey (and non-existent Kurds are in Iran and Syria&#8230;most of the self-professed &#8216;Kurd Lovers&#8217; are actually unaware that there are Kurdish communities in these countries).</p>

	<p>In any case, a good way to shut them up is to ask: &#8216;are you, or are you not, in favour of a Kurdish homeland?&#8217; (i.e. a Kurdish state on the model of Israel). And remind them that the answer is either &#8216;yes&#8217; or &#8216;no&#8217; not some irrelevant waffle about minority rights etc.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149437</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149437</guid>
		<description>I think the strangling remark can be let pass as literary allusion. However, I have decided never, ever to read another piece that refers to our &quot;comrades&quot;, the Kurds. Especially as our comrades, the Kurds, recently burned down the museum in Halabja commemorating Saddam&#039;s war crime of using chemical weapons to massacre Kurds because they are sick of being ruled by corrupt and dictatorial war lords without eliciting a peep from the man who has incorporated his tearful appreciation of the Kurdish atrocities into his conversion story: how I went from witless anti-war sap to muscular belligerant. 

In fact, one of the collateral casualties of this war might well be Northern Iraq&#039;s fragile concord. The place went into civil war in the 90s, and that could well happen again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the strangling remark can be let pass as literary allusion. However, I have decided never, ever to read another piece that refers to our &#8220;comrades&#8221;, the Kurds. Especially as our comrades, the Kurds, recently burned down the museum in Halabja commemorating Saddam&#8217;s war crime of using chemical weapons to massacre Kurds because they are sick of being ruled by corrupt and dictatorial war lords without eliciting a peep from the man who has incorporated his tearful appreciation of the Kurdish atrocities into his conversion story: how I went from witless anti-war sap to muscular belligerant.</p>

	<p>In fact, one of the collateral casualties of this war might well be Northern Iraq&#8217;s fragile concord. The place went into civil war in the 90s, and that could well happen again.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149436</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149436</guid>
		<description>Should we trust a WikiPedia article that claims that the guy became the priest of Etrepigny at the age of 11?  Impossible unless his father was the pope, unlikely in the extreme in 17th century France.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Should we trust a WikiPedia article that claims that the guy became the priest of Etrepigny at the age of 11?  Impossible unless his father was the pope, unlikely in the extreme in 17th century France.</p>
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		<title>By: P O'Neill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/25/a-shameful-confession/comment-page-1/#comment-149435</link>
		<dc:creator>P O'Neill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4473#comment-149435</guid>
		<description>In fact Hitch should get extra wanker points for being a pseud as well.  The French allusions seem to be a way to show that&#039;s not just another wingnut e.g. regarding Garrison Keillor&#039;s slam of Bernard Henri-Levi:

&lt;em&gt;The French eat frogs and horses, fetishize fromage, practice loose gallantry, chew raw garlic, and behaved badly enough under Vichy to make Woody Allen go see Marcel Ophüls&#039; Le Chagrin et la Pitié until he had it by heart.&lt;/em&gt;

At what point in Annie Hall is the film referred to as Le Chagrin et la Pitié?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In fact Hitch should get extra wanker points for being a pseud as well.  The French allusions seem to be a way to show that&#8217;s not just another wingnut e.g. regarding Garrison Keillor&#8217;s slam of Bernard Henri-Levi:</p>

	<p><em>The French eat frogs and horses, fetishize fromage, practice loose gallantry, chew raw garlic, and behaved badly enough under Vichy to make Woody Allen go see Marcel Oph&#252;ls&#8217; Le Chagrin et la Piti&#233; until he had it by heart.</em></p>

	<p>At what point in Annie Hall is the film referred to as Le Chagrin et la Piti&#233;?</p>
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