Comments on: The war and the quarrels http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 00:15:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Brett Bellmore http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-150232 Brett Bellmore Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:26:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-150232 Oh, I agree that it is, but being told that a particular level of government won't fund your research is still not the same thing as being told that you can't do it, period. Or do you want the GOP to decide that if they're going to do the political time, they might as well do the crime? Oh, I agree that it is, but being told that a particular level of government won’t fund your research is still not the same thing as being told that you can’t do it, period.

Or do you want the GOP to decide that if they’re going to do the political time, they might as well do the crime?

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-150196 Barry Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:09:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-150196 Brett: "It certainly would be; I’m glad that so far they’ve limited themselves to saying that you can’t do it with federal money." Which is a major crimp in doing basic research. Brett: “It certainly would be; I’m glad that so far they’ve limited themselves to saying that you can’t do it with federal money.”

Which is a major crimp in doing basic research.

]]> By: Brett Bellmore http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149867 Brett Bellmore Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:58:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149867 <i>"On the other hand, being told that you can’t do stem cell research because there’s a Republican majority in Congress is pretty hard to ignore."</i> It certainly would be; I'm glad that so far they've limited themselves to saying that you can't do it with federal money. “On the other hand, being told that you can’t do stem cell research because there’s a Republican majority in Congress is pretty hard to ignore.”

It certainly would be; I’m glad that so far they’ve limited themselves to saying that you can’t do it with federal money.

]]> By: Steve LaBonne http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149763 Steve LaBonne Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:42:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149763 If you want to understand why Republicans both get and deserve most of the blame, there's also the fact that the Republican war on science is only one aspect of the Republican war on reality in general. You know the drill, Iraq was an imminent threat, had close ties with bin Laden, the people there will strew flowers at their American liberators, "We're an empire, we create our own reality". Or, the Social Security trust fund is about to go bankrupt, and it has to be "rescued" by <i>diverting</i> revenue from it into private investment accounts. Or, we'll grow ourselves out of huge deficits caused (though we'll never admit this, of course) by simultaneously cutting taxes and raising spending. Besides, running huge deficits forever is no problem, as long as Democrats aren't in power. And so on ad nauseum. These people long ago forfeited any right to get the benefit of the doubt. Weak-kneed polite liberal gestures toward "balance" only bring to mind "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are filled with passionate intensity." If you want to understand why Republicans both get and deserve most of the blame, there’s also the fact that the Republican war on science is only one aspect of the Republican war on reality in general. You know the drill, Iraq was an imminent threat, had close ties with bin Laden, the people there will strew flowers at their American liberators, “We’re an empire, we create our own reality”. Or, the Social Security trust fund is about to go bankrupt, and it has to be “rescued” by diverting revenue from it into private investment accounts. Or, we’ll grow ourselves out of huge deficits caused (though we’ll never admit this, of course) by simultaneously cutting taxes and raising spending. Besides, running huge deficits forever is no problem, as long as Democrats aren’t in power. And so on ad nauseum. These people long ago forfeited any right to get the benefit of the doubt. Weak-kneed polite liberal gestures toward “balance” only bring to mind “The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are filled with passionate intensity.”

]]> By: Scott Martens http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149737 Scott Martens Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:36:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149737 I'm not connected to American academia anymore, but I have the impression that to whatever extent academic leftists were ever anti-science, they were also largely powerless and ignored. Derrida is popular, but he is popular for actual reasons and pretty much never talked about science. By far the most attacked figure in the so-called pomo anti-science movement is Bruno Latour, a guy who is clearly, manifestly, and at every turn <i>pro-science</i>. On the other hand, being told that you can't do stem cell research because there's a Republican majority in Congress is pretty hard to ignore. I’m not connected to American academia anymore, but I have the impression that to whatever extent academic leftists were ever anti-science, they were also largely powerless and ignored. Derrida is popular, but he is popular for actual reasons and pretty much never talked about science. By far the most attacked figure in the so-called pomo anti-science movement is Bruno Latour, a guy who is clearly, manifestly, and at every turn pro-science.

On the other hand, being told that you can’t do stem cell research because there’s a Republican majority in Congress is pretty hard to ignore.

]]> By: Mrs Tilton http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149735 Mrs Tilton Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:28:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149735 In fairness to Gross and Levitt, they have written that, had <em>HS</em> been written later than it was, they'd have had to devote a lot of time to the <em>right's</em> quarrels with science. In fairness to Gross and Levitt, they have written that, had HS been written later than it was, they’d have had to devote a lot of time to the right’s quarrels with science.

]]> By: Chris Mooney http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149683 Chris Mooney Tue, 28 Mar 2006 01:16:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149683 Seth, My point exactly; I add this in my response to Tim: http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/man-you-guys-worked-me-hard/ Wage slave: Again, see above; basically I agree with you, but the issue is out there and I really wish I had addressed it more in the book. I did address it in an online column, available at the link above. OGMB: The attack definitely has links to the Republican organization. I hope you'll check out the book and see that! Seth,
My point exactly; I add this in my response to Tim:
http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/man-you-guys-worked-me-hard/

Wage slave: Again, see above; basically I agree with you, but the issue is out there and I really wish I had addressed it more in the book. I did address it in an online column, available at the link above.

OGMB: The attack definitely has links to the Republican organization. I hope you’ll check out the book and see that!

]]> By: ogmb http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149678 ogmb Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:57:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149678 <i>“Republican”. Is that justified? Are the Republicans the only ones making significant attacks on science?</i> Answering the second question in the negative doesn't imply that the first question has to be answered in the negative. If Mooney chooses to look at attacks on science from one group it's his prerogative. The title is only unjustified if 1. this particular line of attack does not exist, or 2. it exists but has no point of contact with the Republican political organization. “Republican”. Is that justified? Are the Republicans the only ones making significant attacks on science?

Answering the second question in the negative doesn’t imply that the first question has to be answered in the negative. If Mooney chooses to look at attacks on science from one group it’s his prerogative. The title is only unjustified if 1. this particular line of attack does not exist, or 2. it exists but has no point of contact with the Republican political organization.

]]> By: wage slave http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149657 wage slave Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:11:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149657 Have the pomos just been taken less seriously in the last decade or so? It seems to me pomo ideas had a great deal of prestige (no better term comes to mind) across the humanities and social sciences through the mid-90's. Probably Sokal's hoax did damage. I'm just not convinced post-modernism is a live enough issue (outside of academia, anyway) to need to be addressed by a book like Mooney's. Have the pomos just been taken less seriously in the last decade or so? It seems to me pomo ideas had a great deal of prestige (no better term comes to mind) across the humanities and social sciences through the mid-90’s. Probably Sokal’s hoax did damage.

I’m just not convinced post-modernism is a live enough issue (outside of academia, anyway) to need to be addressed by a book like Mooney’s.

]]> By: Seth Finkelstein http://crookedtimber.org/2006/03/27/the-war-and-the-quarrels/comment-page-1/#comment-149624 Seth Finkelstein Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:20:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4481#comment-149624 I would submit there's a practical difference between the pomo attacks and the right-wing attacks, in that the pomos do not have large amounts of money or significant access to political power. The pomos are extremely easy to ignore - they basically don't do anything besides publish in obscure journals, read only by other pomos and those who want to rattle their cages. The right-wingers have a huge lobbying apparatus, which affects <em>grants</em>. I don't think any scientists are worried about their research proposal because of something said by a French philosopher. But running afoul of Republican dogma is another issue entirely. That's why the two shouldn't be equivalenced in emphasis. I would submit there’s a practical difference between the pomo attacks and the right-wing attacks, in that the pomos do not have large amounts of money or significant access to political power. The pomos are extremely easy to ignore – they basically don’t do anything besides publish in obscure journals, read only by other pomos and those who want to rattle their cages. The right-wingers have a huge lobbying apparatus, which affects grants.

I don’t think any scientists are worried about their research proposal because of something said by a French philosopher. But running afoul of Republican dogma is another issue entirely.

That’s why the two shouldn’t be equivalenced in emphasis.

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