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	<title>Comments on: Reaching into the Past</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Scale</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150921</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Scale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150921</guid>
		<description>[...] Following up Kieran&#8217;s post quoting Douglas Adams&#8217; line that &#8220;You may think it&#8217;s a long way down the street to the Chemist&#8217;s, but that&#8217;s just peanuts to space&#8221; I thought I&#8217;d try to work out the scale of comparison that is, in some sense directly available to us and compare it to the scale of the universe. (I&#8217;m bound to make a mistake here, but what are comments threads for if not to fix these things). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Following up Kieran&#8217;s post quoting Douglas Adams&#8217; line that &#8220;You may think it&#8217;s a long way down the street to the Chemist&#8217;s, but that&#8217;s just peanuts to space&#8221; I thought I&#8217;d try to work out the scale of comparison that is, in some sense directly available to us and compare it to the scale of the universe. (I&#8217;m bound to make a mistake here, but what are comments threads for if not to fix these things). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scale</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150916</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150916</guid>
		<description>[...] Following up a post by Kieran at CT quoting Douglas Adams’ line that “You may think it’s a long way down the street to the Chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space&#8221; I thought I&#8217;d try to work out the scale of comparison that is, in some sense directly available to us and compare it to the scale of the universe. (I&#8217;m bound to make a mistake here, but what are comments threads for if not to fix these things). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Following up a post by Kieran at CT quoting Douglas Adams&#8217; line that &#8220;You may think it&#8217;s a long way down the street to the Chemist&#8217;s, but that&#8217;s just peanuts to space&#8221; I thought I&#8217;d try to work out the scale of comparison that is, in some sense directly available to us and compare it to the scale of the universe. (I&#8217;m bound to make a mistake here, but what are comments threads for if not to fix these things). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dragonet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150905</link>
		<dc:creator>dragonet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150905</guid>
		<description>Doc paisley always cracks me up.  But on topic....

My great grandfather, who papa said got to at least meet me as an infant, jumped ship in NY at the turn of the century and departed himself to the farthest reaches of the U.S. because at the time one could be hung for such an offense. 

He was a German merchant marine, joined that because the other alternative was to be impressed into the Prussian army.  And he ended up in Afton, OK.Where my proud papa introduced me to him when I was waaaay too little to know.  

Because he was a farmer or some other such, I doubt we were any kind of &#039;steps&#039; from anyone famous, aside from being oppressed by them.  Then again we live with someone who is 2 steps from Kevin Bacon. ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Doc paisley always cracks me up.  But on topic&#8230;.</p>

	<p>My great grandfather, who papa said got to at least meet me as an infant, jumped ship in NY at the turn of the century and departed himself to the farthest reaches of the U.S. because at the time one could be hung for such an offense.</p>

	<p>He was a German merchant marine, joined that because the other alternative was to be impressed into the Prussian army.  And he ended up in Afton, OK.Where my proud papa introduced me to him when I was waaaay too little to know.</p>

	<p>Because he was a farmer or some other such, I doubt we were any kind of &#8216;steps&#8217; from anyone famous, aside from being oppressed by them.  Then again we live with someone who is 2 steps from Kevin Bacon. &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: dilbert dogbert</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150890</link>
		<dc:creator>dilbert dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 23:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150890</guid>
		<description>I shook hands with Bill Clinton.  Yikes!!!
Wonderfull comments!  Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I shook hands with Bill Clinton.  Yikes<img src="!" alt="" border="0" /><br />
Wonderfull comments!  Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Richard J</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150796</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150796</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a vague memory of a Simon Jenkins column which knocks most of these into a cocked hat. Ah, here we go:-

&quot;A man of my acquaintance was addressed, when a child, on the subject of Oliver Cromwell. The speaker was a lady of 91. She told him sternly never to speak ill of the great man. She went on: &quot;My husband&#039;s first wife&#039;s first husband knew Oliver Cromwell - and liked him well.&quot; It was an admonition my friend has not forgotten. 

At first hearing, the story is unbelievable. This was not a great-grandfather who knew a great-grandson. Here at the dawn of the new century is someone able to recall a single matrimonial generation linked directly with the mid-17th century*...

*The remark was made in 1923 by a lady born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80-year-old man named Henry. Sixty-four years earlier, in 1784, the young Henry had, for reasons obscure, married an 82-year-old woman. Her first marriage, in 1720, was to an 80-year-old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve got a vague memory of a Simon Jenkins column which knocks most of these into a cocked hat. Ah, here we go:-</p>

	<p>&#8220;A man of my acquaintance was addressed, when a child, on the subject of Oliver Cromwell. The speaker was a lady of 91. She told him sternly never to speak ill of the great man. She went on: &#8220;My husband&#8217;s first wife&#8217;s first husband knew Oliver Cromwell &#8211; and liked him well.&#8221; It was an admonition my friend has not forgotten.</p>

	<p>At first hearing, the story is unbelievable. This was not a great-grandfather who knew a great-grandson. Here at the dawn of the new century is someone able to recall a single matrimonial generation linked directly with the mid-17th century*&#8230;</p>

	<p>*The remark was made in 1923 by a lady born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80-year-old man named Henry. Sixty-four years earlier, in 1784, the young Henry had, for reasons obscure, married an 82-year-old woman. Her first marriage, in 1720, was to an 80-year-old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658. &#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: rollo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150782</link>
		<dc:creator>rollo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 06:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150782</guid>
		<description>Marty Lederman - 
In a thread full of moving and often fascinating reminiscence, your piece was inspiring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Marty Lederman &#8211; In a thread full of moving and often fascinating reminiscence, your piece was inspiring.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Paisley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150781</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Paisley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 05:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150781</guid>
		<description>During the fall of 1960, my parents dressed my sister and I up in cowboy outfits with signs (&quot;Me and my horse are for Nixon of course!&quot; read mine [I was almost four, didn&#039;t have any choice]) and took us to an appearance Nixon made in Kansas City. As the motorcade passed by, Pat saw us and pointed us out to the Trickinator. We hung around and got to meet him, and I have a signed &quot;Office of the Vice President&quot; business card commemorating the handshake I got from him. Which should be 3 from Stalin (via Khruschev), thence to Lenin, Trotsky and beyond. Perhaps I should go wash up; I feel a Lady Macbeth moment coming on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>During the fall of 1960, my parents dressed my sister and I up in cowboy outfits with signs (&#8220;Me and my horse are for Nixon of course!&#8221; read mine [I was almost four, didn&#8217;t have any choice]) and took us to an appearance Nixon made in Kansas City. As the motorcade passed by, Pat saw us and pointed us out to the Trickinator. We hung around and got to meet him, and I have a signed &#8220;Office of the Vice President&#8221; business card commemorating the handshake I got from him. Which should be 3 from Stalin (via Khruschev), thence to Lenin, Trotsky and beyond. Perhaps I should go wash up; I feel a Lady Macbeth moment coming on.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve T.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150780</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 05:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150780</guid>
		<description>My mother-in-law&#039;s father walked across Wales to get to college in the late 1890s, accompanied by his grandmother, who was born in 1817. My mother-in-law recently visited a childhood friend, whose parents were close college friends with her parents, more than a century ago.

The piano my daughter and I still play frequently was bought in 1889 by my gg-grandparents, who were born in the early 1850s, and was probably played (and certainly heard) by members of the previous generation, born in 1819.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My mother-in-law&#8217;s father walked across Wales to get to college in the late 1890s, accompanied by his grandmother, who was born in 1817. My mother-in-law recently visited a childhood friend, whose parents were close college friends with her parents, more than a century ago.</p>

	<p>The piano my daughter and I still play frequently was bought in 1889 by my gg-grandparents, who were born in the early 1850s, and was probably played (and certainly heard) by members of the previous generation, born in 1819.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150769</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Apr 2006 02:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150769</guid>
		<description>My maternal grandparents homesteaded on what had been Sioux reservataion in 1910. They socialized some with local Sioux people. I never heard them say, but I always imagined that some of those folks may have fought at the Little Bighorn. But aside from that- to have known Native Americans who once knew the freedom of the Great Plains...
then lost a world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My maternal grandparents homesteaded on what had been Sioux reservataion in 1910. They socialized some with local Sioux people. I never heard them say, but I always imagined that some of those folks may have fought at the Little Bighorn. But aside from that- to have known Native Americans who once knew the freedom of the Great Plains&#8230;<br />
then lost a world.</p>
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		<title>By: maidhc</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150757</link>
		<dc:creator>maidhc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150757</guid>
		<description>My mother shook hands with Eleanor Roosevelt.  That puts me 4 handshakes from Stalin.  She also shook hands with Lady Mountbatten, so I am 4 handshakes from Tsar Nicholas II.

I shook hands with Eubie Blake, so I am 2 handshakes from James Reese Europe, Josephine Baker, Bert Williams and Scott Joplin.  I imagine that the Josephine Baker connection would put me 3 handshakes away from all kinds of interesting people.

Interesting topic.  We talk about how much things have changed in our generation, but compare that to my grandfather (born 1886) or his grandfather (born 1815) and I wonder who really saw the most change.

Kipling talks about how farm labour in Britain was much the same as it was at the time of the Norman Conquest, but that way of life was gone soon after the First World War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My mother shook hands with Eleanor Roosevelt.  That puts me 4 handshakes from Stalin.  She also shook hands with Lady Mountbatten, so I am 4 handshakes from Tsar Nicholas II.</p>

	<p>I shook hands with Eubie Blake, so I am 2 handshakes from James Reese Europe, Josephine Baker, Bert Williams and Scott Joplin.  I imagine that the Josephine Baker connection would put me 3 handshakes away from all kinds of interesting people.</p>

	<p>Interesting topic.  We talk about how much things have changed in our generation, but compare that to my grandfather (born 1886) or his grandfather (born 1815) and I wonder who really saw the most change.</p>

	<p>Kipling talks about how farm labour in Britain was much the same as it was at the time of the Norman Conquest, but that way of life was gone soon after the First World War.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150742</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150742</guid>
		<description>The strongest sensation of historical immediacy I ever experienced came in a viewing of early films by the Lumière brothers, circa 1895 -- footage of people leaving a factory, disembarking from a train, crossing a Paris street. Real people at a precise moment in history, a moving snapshot for posterity. It&#039;s one thing to read fictional descriptions by Dickens or James about how people lived in that era, quite another to view documentary evidence of how they actually looked as they went about their lives at a particular moment in time -- with no speculation involving handshakes. Early criticism of photography, and, later, documentary cinema, focussed on the damage they would inflict on art and imagination, but, in fact, these media turned out to be remarkably inspirational to artists, not to mention invaluable to historians. Having no &lt;i&gt;live&lt;/i&gt; record of Napoleon, we can only wonder about his presence or charisma. No one needs wonder about Hitler, Churchill or Roosevelt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The strongest sensation of historical immediacy I ever experienced came in a viewing of early films by the Lumi&#232;re brothers, circa 1895&#8212;footage of people leaving a factory, disembarking from a train, crossing a Paris street. Real people at a precise moment in history, a moving snapshot for posterity. It&#8217;s one thing to read fictional descriptions by Dickens or James about how people lived in that era, quite another to view documentary evidence of how they actually looked as they went about their lives at a particular moment in time&#8212;with no speculation involving handshakes. Early criticism of photography, and, later, documentary cinema, focussed on the damage they would inflict on art and imagination, but, in fact, these media turned out to be remarkably inspirational to artists, not to mention invaluable to historians. Having no <i>live</i> record of Napoleon, we can only wonder about his presence or charisma. No one needs wonder about Hitler, Churchill or Roosevelt.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Bigod</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150738</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Bigod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150738</guid>
		<description>My DAR grandmother&#039;s father was in a Virginia cavalry unit at Gettysburg, and I have a autobiographical essay in which he remembers spending years of his childhood with his grandmother, Charlotte Ashmore Keith (does that sound Southun enough?).  She was born in 1782 and may have shaken hands with her cousin, John Marshall.  If she didn&#039;t, her father did, since he and Marshall were at Valley Forge together.  So four or five handhakes to John Marshall, five or six to Gouverneur Morris.  I feel more comfortable bragging about handshakes than ancestry.  After all, social contact is a matter of record, while paternity is a matter of conjecture. 

More notably, depending on one&#039;s temperament, my German teacher in college remembered coming down to breakfast in 1907 to see a newspaper reporting a military skirmish between Russia and Austria.  In the 1950&#039;s, he had a monthly correspondence with Martin Buber.  After leaving Germany, his family stayed for a while with the Chief Rabbi of the British Empire in London.  I wish I&#039;d asked him if he had met Wittgenstein.  Two handshakes to Ludwig would be cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My <span class="caps">DAR</span> grandmother&#8217;s father was in a Virginia cavalry unit at Gettysburg, and I have a autobiographical essay in which he remembers spending years of his childhood with his grandmother, Charlotte Ashmore Keith (does that sound Southun enough?).  She was born in 1782 and may have shaken hands with her cousin, John Marshall.  If she didn&#8217;t, her father did, since he and Marshall were at Valley Forge together.  So four or five handhakes to John Marshall, five or six to Gouverneur Morris.  I feel more comfortable bragging about handshakes than ancestry.  After all, social contact is a matter of record, while paternity is a matter of conjecture.</p>

	<p>More notably, depending on one&#8217;s temperament, my German teacher in college remembered coming down to breakfast in 1907 to see a newspaper reporting a military skirmish between Russia and Austria.  In the 1950&#8217;s, he had a monthly correspondence with Martin Buber.  After leaving Germany, his family stayed for a while with the Chief Rabbi of the British Empire in London.  I wish I&#8217;d asked him if he had met Wittgenstein.  Two handshakes to Ludwig would be cool.</p>
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		<title>By: eweininger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150736</link>
		<dc:creator>eweininger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150736</guid>
		<description>Yourcenar plays with this idea a bit in an essay on her novel about Hadrian (something along the lines of &quot;only thirty generations separate us from Hadrian.&quot; Etc.)

That said, the novel wears the era of its composition so heavily on its sleeve, that one might be led to wonder about the significance of the idea....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yourcenar plays with this idea a bit in an essay on her novel about Hadrian (something along the lines of &#8220;only thirty generations separate us from Hadrian.&#8221; Etc.)</p>

	<p>That said, the novel wears the era of its composition so heavily on its sleeve, that one might be led to wonder about the significance of the idea&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Holsclaw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150730</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Holsclaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150730</guid>
		<description>My mother as a little girl was a piano student under the last student of Brahms (I think.  I heard the story in my teens).  

Major digression, my mother trained for years to be concert pianist.  She used to play at night after she put us to bed--I think it was a form of therapy for her.  In any case for almost a decade I would hear other people&#039;s mothers say that they could play the piano and whenever I heard them I thought they were awful.  I couldn&#039;t understand why they would talk about playing the piano when they were so bad.  They had miscues on classic pieces of moderate complexity while my mother could whip about a new arrangement of something she was doing with the church choir on the fly.  It wasn&#039;t until I was 16 years old that I finally realized that these other people weren&#039;t so awful, my mother was just very good.  As a child it was hard for me to realize that my mother excelled at something--she was the baseline for normal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My mother as a little girl was a piano student under the last student of Brahms (I think.  I heard the story in my teens).</p>

	<p>Major digression, my mother trained for years to be concert pianist.  She used to play at night after she put us to bed&#8212;I think it was a form of therapy for her.  In any case for almost a decade I would hear other people&#8217;s mothers say that they could play the piano and whenever I heard them I thought they were awful.  I couldn&#8217;t understand why they would talk about playing the piano when they were so bad.  They had miscues on classic pieces of moderate complexity while my mother could whip about a new arrangement of something she was doing with the church choir on the fly.  It wasn&#8217;t until I was 16 years old that I finally realized that these other people weren&#8217;t so awful, my mother was just very good.  As a child it was hard for me to realize that my mother excelled at something&#8212;she was the baseline for normal.</p>
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		<title>By: Dantheman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-150720</link>
		<dc:creator>Dantheman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/04/reaching-into-the-past/#comment-150720</guid>
		<description>When I visited John Tyler&#039;s (who was born in the 1780&#039;s) house about a decade ago, I was surprised to find that his grandson lived there.  Tyler&#039;s wife died shortly before he was elected President, and he re-married and had multiple additional children by his second wife.  The youngest child (born roughly 1860, when Tyler was 79, IIRC) performed the same feat, so his youngest child was born in the 1930&#039;s, and was living in the house.  We asked the tour guide if the current resident was planning on repeating history, and was told no (I got the impression it is a common question).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When I visited John Tyler&#8217;s (who was born in the 1780&#8217;s) house about a decade ago, I was surprised to find that his grandson lived there.  Tyler&#8217;s wife died shortly before he was elected President, and he re-married and had multiple additional children by his second wife.  The youngest child (born roughly 1860, when Tyler was 79, <span class="caps">IIRC</span>) performed the same feat, so his youngest child was born in the 1930&#8217;s, and was living in the house.  We asked the tour guide if the current resident was planning on repeating history, and was told no (I got the impression it is a common question).</p>
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