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	<title>Comments on: Angels and Demons</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151564</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 23:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151564</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am not saying Dan Brown wrote a good book. But is there any evidence that was his goal?&lt;/i&gt;

Ouch. Supporting Brown as the rope support the hangman, as they say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I am not saying Dan Brown wrote a good book. But is there any evidence that was his goal?</i></p>

	<p>Ouch. Supporting Brown as the rope support the hangman, as they say.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Brak</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151519</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Brak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151519</guid>
		<description>Well tylerh, I love Dan Brown books.  Except for the slender torso part.  I like a bit of meat on my physicists.  But I think this is definately a &quot;sound cool around the lunch table&quot; thread rather than useful literary analysis.  I for one am rocking back and having fun here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well tylerh, I love Dan Brown books.  Except for the slender torso part.  I like a bit of meat on my physicists.  But I think this is definately a &#8220;sound cool around the lunch table&#8221; thread rather than useful literary analysis.  I for one am rocking back and having fun here.</p>
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		<title>By: tylerh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151505</link>
		<dc:creator>tylerh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151505</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; the insinuation that tylerh ... actually smarter than the Better Educated (viz, differential equations) was an especially nice touch.&lt;/i&gt;

Good point.  Because we all  know  that there is a single kind of smarter and that people can be easily ranked by that.  

Look, I freely  admit  that I not as smart writing-wise as most posters around here, but I vaguely recall from my struggles in writing class the concept of analogy:  I don&#039;t  sneer at people who aren&#039;t as facile with  the tools of my specialty, so why must others sneer at lesser users of the tools of their specialty? Maybe not the clearest analogy (metaphor?) but I hope  you can see my point. I am certain my claim is not a straw man like claim the &quot;insuation that Tylerh is a man of the people.&quot;  How does a declaration  of posessing a Ph.D. even begin to raise such a claim?
 

To clarify: I am not saying  Dan Brown wrote a good  book. But is there any evidence  that was his  goal?  Dan Brown appears to have set out to write a popular book and succeeded wildly. Given   how rarely any popular book is considered a good book, most of the comments on  this thread strike my ears as more akin to junior high students  desperately trying to sound cool around the lunch table than useful literary analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> the insinuation that tylerh &#8230; actually smarter than the Better Educated (viz, differential equations) was an especially nice touch.</i></p>

	<p>Good point.  Because we all  know  that there is a single kind of smarter and that people can be easily ranked by that.</p>

	<p>Look, I freely  admit  that I not as smart writing-wise as most posters around here, but I vaguely recall from my struggles in writing class the concept of analogy:  I don&#8217;t  sneer at people who aren&#8217;t as facile with  the tools of my specialty, so why must others sneer at lesser users of the tools of their specialty? Maybe not the clearest analogy (metaphor?) but I hope  you can see my point. I am certain my claim is not a straw man like claim the &#8220;insuation that Tylerh is a man of the people.&#8221;  How does a declaration  of posessing a Ph.D. even begin to raise such a claim?</p>


	<p>To clarify: I am not saying  Dan Brown wrote a good  book. But is there any evidence  that was his  goal?  Dan Brown appears to have set out to write a popular book and succeeded wildly. Given   how rarely any popular book is considered a good book, most of the comments on  this thread strike my ears as more akin to junior high students  desperately trying to sound cool around the lunch table than useful literary analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: tylerh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151496</link>
		<dc:creator>tylerh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151496</guid>
		<description>Kcindc:
&lt;i&gt;Does [my] abstention from sneering apply even when the person having trouble with differential equations is being paid to be an engineer?&lt;/i&gt;

yes.  First, there are plenty of engineering tasks that don&#039;t require facility with D.E.s  Second, there are far better responses to someone struggling at their job than sneering.

&lt;i&gt;Why do tylerh and decon misspell y’all the same way?&lt;/i&gt;

Because there are strong  regional variations in how that colloquial second person plural pronoun  is  pronounced.  &quot;Y&#039;all&quot; is  reflective of how I grew up prounouncing that word, as in the shopkeepers&#039; friendly parting, &quot;Y&#039; aall come back now, yehear!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kcindc:<br />
<i>Does [my] abstention from sneering apply even when the person having trouble with differential equations is being paid to be an engineer?</i></p>

	<p>yes.  First, there are plenty of engineering tasks that don&#8217;t require facility with D.E.s  Second, there are far better responses to someone struggling at their job than sneering.</p>

	<p><i>Why do tylerh and decon misspell y&#8217;all the same way?</i></p>

	<p>Because there are strong  regional variations in how that colloquial second person plural pronoun  is  pronounced.  &#8220;Y&#8217;all&#8221; is  reflective of how I grew up prounouncing that word, as in the shopkeepers&#8217; friendly parting, &#8220;Y&#8217; aall come back now, yehear!&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151476</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151476</guid>
		<description>Special tag maybe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Special tag maybe?</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151475</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151475</guid>
		<description>Please, please, someone collect these &quot;author pops up in the thread&quot; moments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Please, please, someone collect these &#8220;author pops up in the thread&#8221; moments.</p>
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		<title>By: pp</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151465</link>
		<dc:creator>pp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151465</guid>
		<description>response to #51,
Mr. Perdue,
Thank you for responding. You are correct that your premise, plot, and charachters are original and as an action adventure story are entertaining. I also don&#039;t want to be critical of the re-publication. People should get paid for their work and if it sells, good for you. For what its worth it would be a great screenplay. Best Luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>response to #51,<br />
Mr. Perdue,<br />
Thank you for responding. You are correct that your premise, plot, and charachters are original and as an action adventure story are entertaining. I also don&#8217;t want to be critical of the re-publication. People should get paid for their work and if it sells, good for you. For what its worth it would be a great screenplay. Best Luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna in Cairo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151440</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna in Cairo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151440</guid>
		<description>I have read 3 of Dan Brown&#039;s books: Deception Point, A&amp;D and DVC.  I think Angels and Demons was much worse than the other two.  I actually enjoy reading awful page turners, but even for a bad writer he is kind of special. His character descriptions had me rolling my eyes. The language log thing about how he always starts out with a person defined by their job getting whacked was very funny.  (Link at comment 12.) However at least I could finish Dan Brown&#039;s books.  I could not get through Michael Creighton&#039;s State of Fear at all.  That has to be the very worst book I have attempted to read for the past several years, and I am counting harlequin romances, the phone book, and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1990.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have read 3 of Dan Brown&#8217;s books: Deception Point, A&#038;D and <span class="caps">DVC</span>.  I think Angels and Demons was much worse than the other two.  I actually enjoy reading awful page turners, but even for a bad writer he is kind of special. His character descriptions had me rolling my eyes. The language log thing about how he always starts out with a person defined by their job getting whacked was very funny.  (Link at comment 12.) However at least I could finish Dan Brown&#8217;s books.  I could not get through Michael Creighton&#8217;s State of Fear at all.  That has to be the very worst book I have attempted to read for the past several years, and I am counting harlequin romances, the phone book, and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1990.</p>
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		<title>By: decon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151422</link>
		<dc:creator>decon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151422</guid>
		<description>Nebraska is southern.  I drank sweet tea at a Cracker Barrel there once.  QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nebraska is southern.  I drank sweet tea at a Cracker Barrel there once.  <span class="caps">QED</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151412</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151412</guid>
		<description>The judgement in the Dan Brown plagiarism case is a great source of fun: the judge clearly had a fantastic time. (Warning 71-page pdf)

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/images/judgment-files/baigent_v_rhg_0406.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The judgement in the Dan Brown plagiarism case is a great source of fun: the judge clearly had a fantastic time. (Warning 71-page pdf)</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/images/judgment-files/baigent_v_rhg_0406.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/images/judgment-files/baigent_v_rhg_0406.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: lurker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151402</link>
		<dc:creator>lurker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151402</guid>
		<description>Colin Watson (in &#039;Snobbery with Violence&#039;) long ago pointed out that the success of popular fiction has nothing to do with literary quality, intelligence or credibility and everything to do with appealing to the emotions and prejudices of your audience.
This can&#039;t be faked just to make a fast buck: to create Bulldog Drummond or Doctor Fu Man Chu, you have to think, feel and prejudge like Sapper or Sax Rohmer.
Popular fiction is not usually original, it is highly derivative and full of stock characters and cliches that get worked to death.
The only thing that distinguishes Brown from countless earlier and future hacks is that apparently a lot of nonexpert people take his &#039;ideas&#039; seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Colin Watson (in &#8216;Snobbery with Violence&#8217;) long ago pointed out that the success of popular fiction has nothing to do with literary quality, intelligence or credibility and everything to do with appealing to the emotions and prejudices of your audience.<br />
This can&#8217;t be faked just to make a fast buck: to create Bulldog Drummond or Doctor Fu Man Chu, you have to think, feel and prejudge like Sapper or Sax Rohmer.<br />
Popular fiction is not usually original, it is highly derivative and full of stock characters and cliches that get worked to death.<br />
The only thing that distinguishes Brown from countless earlier and future hacks is that apparently a lot of nonexpert people take his &#8216;ideas&#8217; seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: tzs</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151394</link>
		<dc:creator>tzs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 04:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151394</guid>
		<description>Frabjous joy!  I thought that I and my roommate were the only ones who couldn&#039;t stand the Da Vinci Code because the writing was so putrid.

And I rolled on the floor when reading Angels &amp; Demons--the description of CERN is priceless (doesn&#039;t the protagonist also get whisked over there in a Concorde or something like that?) 

And heck, I could come up with a better conspiracy theory myself.  In fact, I&#039;ve got one, pulling together the occult, Freemasons, the Russian Mafia, Petrarch, hedge funds, trust law as implemented in Jersey law, and faked statues.  Oh, and a hurricane and mistaken identities.  That&#039;ll show them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Frabjous joy!  I thought that I and my roommate were the only ones who couldn&#8217;t stand the Da Vinci Code because the writing was so putrid.</p>

	<p>And I rolled on the floor when reading Angels &#038; Demons&#8212;the description of <span class="caps">CERN</span> is priceless (doesn&#8217;t the protagonist also get whisked over there in a Concorde or something like that?)</p>

	<p>And heck, I could come up with a better conspiracy theory myself.  In fact, I&#8217;ve got one, pulling together the occult, Freemasons, the Russian Mafia, Petrarch, hedge funds, trust law as implemented in Jersey law, and faked statues.  Oh, and a hurricane and mistaken identities.  That&#8217;ll show them.</p>
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		<title>By: dr ngo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151389</link>
		<dc:creator>dr ngo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151389</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Ya’ll is southern for y’all. At least according to the expert.&lt;/i&gt;

The &quot;expert&quot; in question - Larry the Cable Guy - was in fact born and raised in Nebraska.  The accent (and attitude) are completely bogus.

This is not entirely off topic, by the way.  Like Dan Brown, Larry the Cable Guy has taken to heart the dictum of H.L. Mencken:  &quot;No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Ya&#8217;ll is southern for y&#8217;all. At least according to the expert.</i></p>

	<p>The &#8220;expert&#8221; in question &#8211; Larry the Cable Guy &#8211; was in fact born and raised in Nebraska.  The accent (and attitude) are completely bogus.</p>

	<p>This is not entirely off topic, by the way.  Like Dan Brown, Larry the Cable Guy has taken to heart the dictum of H.L. Mencken:  &#8220;No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Perdue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-2/#comment-151382</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Perdue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 02:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151382</guid>
		<description>PP: 

Yes, but Da Vinci Legacy is, at least, an ORIGINAL piece of mindless drivel as opposed to plagiarized mindless drivel like AD and DVCode.

And no I didn&#039;t update any of the technology. When the newest edition was printed, my editor wanted me to do an update of the 1983 original. But the time was very short and a number of things did not get properly updated. 

However, NOTHING substantial was changed, nothing that affects the plot, the action etc. 

What else was done in this hasty update? A few things, like people pay in Euros now and not in Lire like they did when I wrote this in 1983. The Last Supper has been restored. Stuff like that.

The Hero&#039;s name was changed (too many sssss&#039;s Curtis Davis ... say it aloud... the change was to Vance Erikson, but the name change  didn&#039;t get transferred to the cover on the first printing. The change was made on the second and third printings so maybe the first ones will be collector&#039;s items. 

And at least having something on the back of the Clorox bottle to read serves some kind of social good, I think.

&lt;i&gt; PP said: &quot;These books don’t hold a candle to a piece of mindless drivel based on the same premise called “the da vinci legacy” by lewis perdue. it was originally published in 1983 and features a renegade scientist, beautiful girl, scientific mystery, set in Italy. It was re-copyrighted in 2004 to take advantage of Dan Brown mania. It was clearly re-written at that time to update the technology etc and makes the book so anachronistic that you cant read a whole page without wanting to annotate and edit the whole thing. Somehow it was popular enough to make a rack at the airport, and since it didn’t feature any bodice ripping cover, I read it. I kept going back to it to consume time and kill the boredom just as you might read the back of the bleach bottle if you are stuck on the toilet for too long.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>PP:</p>

	<p>Yes, but Da Vinci Legacy is, at least, an <span class="caps">ORIGINAL</span> piece of mindless drivel as opposed to plagiarized mindless drivel like AD and DVCode.</p>

	<p>And no I didn&#8217;t update any of the technology. When the newest edition was printed, my editor wanted me to do an update of the 1983 original. But the time was very short and a number of things did not get properly updated.</p>

	<p>However, <span class="caps">NOTHING</span> substantial was changed, nothing that affects the plot, the action etc.</p>

	<p>What else was done in this hasty update? A few things, like people pay in Euros now and not in Lire like they did when I wrote this in 1983. The Last Supper has been restored. Stuff like that.</p>

	<p>The Hero&#8217;s name was changed (too many sssss&#8217;s Curtis Davis &#8230; say it aloud&#8230; the change was to Vance Erikson, but the name change  didn&#8217;t get transferred to the cover on the first printing. The change was made on the second and third printings so maybe the first ones will be collector&#8217;s items.</p>

	<p>And at least having something on the back of the Clorox bottle to read serves some kind of social good, I think.</p>

	<p><i> PP said: &#8220;These books don&#8217;t hold a candle to a piece of mindless drivel based on the same premise called &#8220;the da vinci legacy&#8221; by lewis perdue. it was originally published in 1983 and features a renegade scientist, beautiful girl, scientific mystery, set in Italy. It was re-copyrighted in 2004 to take advantage of Dan Brown mania. It was clearly re-written at that time to update the technology etc and makes the book so anachronistic that you cant read a whole page without wanting to annotate and edit the whole thing. Somehow it was popular enough to make a rack at the airport, and since it didn&#8217;t feature any bodice ripping cover, I read it. I kept going back to it to consume time and kill the boredom just as you might read the back of the bleach bottle if you are stuck on the toilet for too long.&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Alex Earl</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/comment-page-1/#comment-151367</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Earl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/angels-and-demons/#comment-151367</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve managed not to read the Da Vinci code. I&#039;ve been told to read it by many people (even friends!), but from what I can tell, it sounds like Foucault&#039;s Pendulum without the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve managed not to read the Da Vinci code. I&#8217;ve been told to read it by many people (even friends!), but from what I can tell, it sounds like Foucault&#8217;s Pendulum without the point.</p>
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