<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Vae victoribus</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 00:15:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: guerrilla radio</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151530</link>
		<dc:creator>guerrilla radio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151530</guid>
		<description>Letter to George Bush 



Perhaps I’m getting bigheaded, but I want to write to George Bush.

“ Open letter to George Bush.

I’m just a comic and you are a great president at the head of a great and powerful nation. Furthermore, you are also a great friend of our former President of the Council with whom you have many points in common: the Atlantic vision in place of the pacific one, great riches, the exportation of democracy with or without weapons, the personalisation of politics. 
Allow me, very humbly, to ask you for an account of your behaviour in relation to Italy and the Italians. 
Prodi has won the elections. Heads of State of many nations and the President of the European Community have sent their congratulations to him. 
You are almost the only one who hasn’t done this. 
And, in this situation, our former President of the Council does not recognise the election result thanks to your support. 
You continue to not recognise Prodi as the legitimate winner, elected in free elections. 
They were elections managed by the Minister of the Interior as a member of the Government in power. 
They were elections in which voting went on according to a liberticida (liberty killing) election law guided through Parliament by your friend and in this case, your voice as a defender of democracy has not been heard. 
You are not showing yourself to be a friend of our country and you are probably not even acting in the interests of your country. 
If you don’t recognise Prodi, why should Italians recognise you? I believe and hope that your behaviour is simply a temporary institutional distraction. If this is not the case, Italians should ask themselves a few questions. 

Why should we allow American Military Bases to be in our country? 
Why should we tolerate the presence of American atomic weapons at Ghedi Torre, Brescia and at Aviano, Pordenone? 
Why should we allow CIA agents to move around our country as though they were visiting your great ranch in Texas? 
Why should we provide finance to a country that at this moment is hostile to us by buying American products, eating in American chains, supporting American companies in Italy? 
I’m sure the Italians will know how to find the answers.”

Vik (guerrilla radio)
italian blogger from Milan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Letter to George Bush</p>



	<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m getting bigheaded, but I want to write to George Bush.</p>

	<p>&#8220; Open letter to George Bush.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m just a comic and you are a great president at the head of a great and powerful nation. Furthermore, you are also a great friend of our former President of the Council with whom you have many points in common: the Atlantic vision in place of the pacific one, great riches, the exportation of democracy with or without weapons, the personalisation of politics.<br />
Allow me, very humbly, to ask you for an account of your behaviour in relation to Italy and the Italians.<br />
Prodi has won the elections. Heads of State of many nations and the President of the European Community have sent their congratulations to him.<br />
You are almost the only one who hasn&#8217;t done this.<br />
And, in this situation, our former President of the Council does not recognise the election result thanks to your support.<br />
You continue to not recognise Prodi as the legitimate winner, elected in free elections.<br />
They were elections managed by the Minister of the Interior as a member of the Government in power.<br />
They were elections in which voting went on according to a liberticida (liberty killing) election law guided through Parliament by your friend and in this case, your voice as a defender of democracy has not been heard.<br />
You are not showing yourself to be a friend of our country and you are probably not even acting in the interests of your country.<br />
If you don&#8217;t recognise Prodi, why should Italians recognise you? I believe and hope that your behaviour is simply a temporary institutional distraction. If this is not the case, Italians should ask themselves a few questions.</p>

	<p>Why should we allow American Military Bases to be in our country?<br />
Why should we tolerate the presence of American atomic weapons at Ghedi Torre, Brescia and at Aviano, Pordenone?<br />
Why should we allow <span class="caps">CIA</span> agents to move around our country as though they were visiting your great ranch in Texas?<br />
Why should we provide finance to a country that at this moment is hostile to us by buying American products, eating in American chains, supporting American companies in Italy?<br />
I&#8217;m sure the Italians will know how to find the answers.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Vik (guerrilla radio)<br />
italian blogger from Milan</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Σπιτάκι &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Τι ακριβώς συνέβει στην Ιταλία;</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151302</link>
		<dc:creator>Σπιτάκι &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Τι ακριβώς συνέβει στην Ιταλία;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151302</guid>
		<description>[...] Μη ξεχνάμε βέβαια τη δύναμη των καλών, αντικειμενικών Ιταλικών media, μα και πάλι η κατάσταση είναι λίγο περίεργη. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] &#924;&#951; &#958;&#949;&#967;&#957;ά&#956;&#949; &#946;έ&#946;&#945;&#953;&#945; &#964;&#951; &#948;ύ&#957;&#945;&#956;&#951; &#964;&#969;&#957; &#954;&#945;&#955;ώ&#957;, &#945;&#957;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#949;&#953;&#956;&#949;&#957;&#953;&#954;ώ&#957; &#921;&#964;&#945;&#955;&#953;&#954;ώ&#957; media, &#956;&#945; &#954;&#945;&#953; &#960;ά&#955;&#953; &#951; &#954;&#945;&#964;ά&#963;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#951; &#949;ί&#957;&#945;&#953; &#955;ί&#947;&#959; &#960;&#949;&#961;ί&#949;&#961;&#947;&#951;. [...]</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151231</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151231</guid>
		<description>&quot;The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources. I mean really: do you want the government providing your news? It is bad enough that the government provides our educations.&quot;

Posted by Justin ·

As has been said above, then he&#039;d own those sources, also.  

Now, since the obvious move is to remove as many sources from Berlusconi’s control as possible, will you support that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources. I mean really: do you want the government providing your news? It is bad enough that the government provides our educations.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Posted by Justin &#183;</p>

	<p>As has been said above, then he&#8217;d own those sources, also.</p>

	<p>Now, since the obvious move is to remove as many sources from Berlusconi&#8217;s control as possible, will you support that?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151215</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 06:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151215</guid>
		<description>I agree with DD and others. Any political party that wouldn&#039;t want to go after an opponent in Berlusconi&#039;s position deserves to lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree with DD and others. Any political party that wouldn&#8217;t want to go after an opponent in Berlusconi&#8217;s position deserves to lose.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151204</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151204</guid>
		<description>&#039;I’m sure Europe set up their state-controlled media with the best of intentions, but it is inevitable that it will end out a tool to support entrenched government interests. Power corrupts.&#039;

While I&#039;m generally one to give knee-jerk agreement to Lord Acton&#039;s dictum, I&#039;m not sure that this is really true in this case. The BBC doesn&#039;t seem to me to ever have been a tool for the British government (indeed, I think that Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell and company would be rather surprised to hear the state-owned media described this way). 
Now, _private_ media tycoons on the other hand ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;I&#8217;m sure Europe set up their state-controlled media with the best of intentions, but it is inevitable that it will end out a tool to support entrenched government interests. Power corrupts.&#8217;</p>

	<p>While I&#8217;m generally one to give knee-jerk agreement to Lord Acton&#8217;s dictum, I&#8217;m not sure that this is really true in this case. The <span class="caps">BBC</span> doesn&#8217;t seem to me to ever have been a tool for the British government (indeed, I think that Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell and company would be rather surprised to hear the state-owned media described this way).<br />
Now, <em>private</em> media tycoons on the other hand &#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: snuh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151195</link>
		<dc:creator>snuh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151195</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources.&lt;/i&gt;

yeah, cause then berlusconi would buy them, and all would be well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources.</i></p>

	<p>yeah, cause then berlusconi would buy them, and all would be well.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151189</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151189</guid>
		<description>If your coalition is fragile it&#039;s a no-brainer to try and hold them together by picking on a common enemy.  I&#039;d reckon Prodi would be talking straight away about repealing the special &quot;save Berlusconi&#039;s ass&quot; laws.  In the meawhile though, Berlusconi can maybe use his remaining control of news coverage to peel off nervous members of the coalition.

But that&#039;s just what it looks like from a distance - no doubt, in traditional Italian style, there are all sorts of arcane twists and turns involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If your coalition is fragile it&#8217;s a no-brainer to try and hold them together by picking on a common enemy.  I&#8217;d reckon Prodi would be talking straight away about repealing the special &#8220;save Berlusconi&#8217;s ass&#8221; laws.  In the meawhile though, Berlusconi can maybe use his remaining control of news coverage to peel off nervous members of the coalition.</p>

	<p>But that&#8217;s just what it looks like from a distance &#8211; no doubt, in traditional Italian style, there are all sorts of arcane twists and turns involved.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: C.J.Colucci</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151185</link>
		<dc:creator>C.J.Colucci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151185</guid>
		<description>&quot;Italian government&quot; is an oxymoron.  But I should probably be more humble.  My wife and I were in Italy during the 2000 election.  Before we left, I had joked that we might see two changes of government while we were there.  When I saw what was happening back home (BBC covered it better than I can imagine the US media did), I was tempted to get t-shirts that said in Italian: &quot;Yes, we&#039;re Americans. Please don&#039;t laugh at us.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Italian government&#8221; is an oxymoron.  But I should probably be more humble.  My wife and I were in Italy during the 2000 election.  Before we left, I had joked that we might see two changes of government while we were there.  When I saw what was happening back home (BBC covered it better than I can imagine the US media did), I was tempted to get t-shirts that said in Italian: &#8220;Yes, we&#8217;re Americans. Please don&#8217;t laugh at us.&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151182</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151182</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this will teach the left a lesson about government and privatization. I&#039;m sure Europe set up their state-controlled media with the best of intentions, but it is inevitable that it will end out a tool to support entrenched government interests. Power corrupts.

The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources. I mean really: do *you* want the government providing your news? It is bad enough that the government provides our educations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hopefully this will teach the left a lesson about government and privatization. I&#8217;m sure Europe set up their state-controlled media with the best of intentions, but it is inevitable that it will end out a tool to support entrenched government interests. Power corrupts.</p>

	<p>The logical thing to do is privatize all media sources. I mean really: do <strong>you</strong> want the government providing your news? It is bad enough that the government provides our educations.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gar  Lipow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151181</link>
		<dc:creator>Gar  Lipow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151181</guid>
		<description>Hmm how sure are you there won&#039;t be some reform? It seems like a no-brainer to  pass some sort of anti-monoply or anti-media concentration law. Given how he used his power against the entire left, surely they can take a couple of days off to reduce the power of a mutual enemy before fighting over the spoils?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmm how sure are you there won&#8217;t be some reform? It seems like a no-brainer to  pass some sort of anti-monoply or anti-media concentration law. Given how he used his power against the entire left, surely they can take a couple of days off to reduce the power of a mutual enemy before fighting over the spoils?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Weman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151176</link>
		<dc:creator>David Weman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151176</guid>
		<description>&quot;No no, sensible comments you can get anywhere.&quot;

If only that were true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;No no, sensible comments you can get anywhere.&#8221;</p>

	<p>If only that were true.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151173</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151173</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;their security agent was killed in Iraq by the US&lt;/i&gt;

Not just an agent -- he was a major general in the military intelligence and the head of their operations in Iraq. Clientelism and the rest of it, sure, but it says something positive about the political culture that someone of that rank would put himself at risk that way. Can&#039;t imagine an American doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>their security agent was killed in Iraq by the US</i></p>

	<p>Not just an agent&#8212;he was a major general in the military intelligence and the head of their operations in Iraq. Clientelism and the rest of it, sure, but it says something positive about the political culture that someone of that rank would put himself at risk that way. Can&#8217;t imagine an American doing it.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151172</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151172</guid>
		<description>No no, sensible comments you can get anywhere. For this stuff you have to come to CT.

(The fact that you&#039;re taking the course implies an opinion anyway. It&#039;s like when you call the pizza place to see if they&#039;re open. &quot;Can I help you?&quot; &quot;You already have.&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No no, sensible comments you can get anywhere. For this stuff you have to come to CT.</p>

	<p>(The fact that you&#8217;re taking the course implies an opinion anyway. It&#8217;s like when you call the pizza place to see if they&#8217;re open. &#8220;Can I help you?&#8221; &#8220;You already have.&#8221;)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151171</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151171</guid>
		<description>I get the impression that Italian government can&#039;t really do anything the US doesn&#039;t want them to do; not much sovereignty there. In 1998 a US pilot killed a couple dozen people at an Italian ski resort - was acquitted by a court-martial. Last year the CIA just kidnapped some guy in Milan and took him out of the country - nothing happened. Then there was that story when their security agent was killed in Iraq by the US - nothing at all. Wtf?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I get the impression that Italian government can&#8217;t really do anything the US doesn&#8217;t want them to do; not much sovereignty there. In 1998 a US pilot killed a couple dozen people at an Italian ski resort &#8211; was acquitted by a court-martial. Last year the <span class="caps">CIA</span> just kidnapped some guy in Milan and took him out of the country &#8211; nothing happened. Then there was that story when their security agent was killed in Iraq by the <span class="caps">US </span>- nothing at all. Wtf?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: des von bladet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/11/vae-victoribus/comment-page-1/#comment-151170</link>
		<dc:creator>des von bladet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4542#comment-151170</guid>
		<description>Ginsborg features in the Open University&#039;s first video for the course A221: State, Economy and Nation which I&#039;m taking (in its final year of presentation) this year.

All his segments are filmed with him sitting at a (his?) kitchen table talking about the way a Weberian bureaucracy failed to flourish in Italy but was usurped by &quot;clientalism&quot; and looking like he&#039;s about to start crying.

(Or did you want sensible comments?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ginsborg features in the Open University&#8217;s first video for the course <span class="caps">A221</span>: State, Economy and Nation which I&#8217;m taking (in its final year of presentation) this year.</p>

	<p>All his segments are filmed with him sitting at a (his?) kitchen table talking about the way a Weberian bureaucracy failed to flourish in Italy but was usurped by &#8220;clientalism&#8221; and looking like he&#8217;s about to start crying.</p>

	<p>(Or did you want sensible comments?)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

