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	<title>Comments on: Nir Rosen in Boston Review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151894</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 07:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151894</guid>
		<description>Milbloggers don&#039;t &quot;implement&quot; Bush policies.  They comment on, or support them.

Asking people why they do the things they do is not a reliable guide to truth even when they are not attempting to conceal their strategy.  Psychologists know this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Milbloggers don&#8217;t &#8220;implement&#8221; Bush policies.  They comment on, or support them.</p>

	<p>Asking people why they do the things they do is not a reliable guide to truth even when they are not attempting to conceal their strategy.  Psychologists know this.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151859</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151859</guid>
		<description>abb1 and brenden,
There is a much better way to discern the motives of the &quot;Bushies&quot; than to stand outside, and peering through 10 layers of filtered information and then trying to put it all together.  You are trying to come to conclusions with woefully incomplete information.  But alas, this is not &lt;i&gt;the best of all possible &lt;strike&gt;worlds&lt;/strike&gt; insights&lt;/i&gt;.  

Now, there are group of people much closer to the goings on of the &quot;Bushies&quot;, that often talk of Iraq policy and the goings on of Iraq.  They are the people who actually impliment the &quot;Bushies&quot; policies.  If you were to mentally prepare yourself for entering the lions den (and by this I mean try to &lt;b&gt;control&lt;/b&gt; for any perceived bias), you could visit milblogger sites.  If you email them, they usually respond or will answer you in a blog entry (if you are not making wild accusations that they are baby eating demons that should be put down).  

Or you could keep blowing smoke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1 and brenden,<br />
There is a much better way to discern the motives of the &#8220;Bushies&#8221; than to stand outside, and peering through 10 layers of filtered information and then trying to put it all together.  You are trying to come to conclusions with woefully incomplete information.  But alas, this is not <i>the best of all possible <strike>worlds</strike> insights</i>.</p>

	<p>Now, there are group of people much closer to the goings on of the &#8220;Bushies&#8221;, that often talk of Iraq policy and the goings on of Iraq.  They are the people who actually impliment the &#8220;Bushies&#8221; policies.  If you were to mentally prepare yourself for entering the lions den (and by this I mean try to <b>control</b> for any perceived bias), you could visit milblogger sites.  If you email them, they usually respond or will answer you in a blog entry (if you are not making wild accusations that they are baby eating demons that should be put down).</p>

	<p>Or you could keep blowing smoke.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151843</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 12:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151843</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But I repeat, if the Americans wanted to divide and rule, wouldn’t they be encouraging someone like him to ‘rule’? That would certainly set the Kurds and the Sunnis at the Shia’s throats.&lt;/i&gt;

But maybe they &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be encouraging someone like him to rule. Like I said: I don&#039;t see any reason to believe that the Bushies want to get rid of Jaafari because he is unacceptable to the Kurds and the Sunnis; so far it appears that the only reason the Bushies want to jettison Jaafari is that he is unacceptable to the Bushies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But I repeat, if the Americans wanted to divide and rule, wouldn&#8217;t they be encouraging someone like him to &#8216;rule&#8217;? That would certainly set the Kurds and the Sunnis at the Shia&#8217;s throats.</i></p>

	<p>But maybe they <i>will</i> be encouraging someone like him to rule. Like I said: I don&#8217;t see any reason to believe that the Bushies want to get rid of Jaafari because he is unacceptable to the Kurds and the Sunnis; so far it appears that the only reason the Bushies want to jettison Jaafari is that he is unacceptable to the Bushies.</p>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151825</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 04:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151825</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anyone who says &quot;Oil at $500 dollars a barrel, anyone? How about $1000?&quot; can’t be all that smart.&lt;/i&gt;

I will give you that, that was not a good use of hyperbole.  But it stands out from the rest of the post, rather than fitting in like part of a rant from a Daily Kossack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Anyone who says &#8220;Oil at $500 dollars a barrel, anyone? How about $1000?&#8221; can&#8217;t be all that smart.</i></p>

	<p>I will give you that, that was not a good use of hyperbole.  But it stands out from the rest of the post, rather than fitting in like part of a rant from a Daily Kossack.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151772</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 21:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151772</guid>
		<description>Oh Jaafari signed his death warrant (possibly literally) when he said he was an admirer of Chomsky. There&#039;s no doubt the Americans just don&#039;t like him very much. But I repeat, if the Americans wanted to divide and rule, wouldn&#039;t they be encouraging someone like him to &#039;rule&#039;? That would certainly set the Kurds and the Sunnis at the Shia&#039;s throats. 

The fact is that by keeping Iraq together the Americans have more influence. If ever the country split, the Sunni and Shia areas would be no-go areas for the US and the Shia area at least is where (some of) the oil is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh Jaafari signed his death warrant (possibly literally) when he said he was an admirer of Chomsky. There&#8217;s no doubt the Americans just don&#8217;t like him very much. But I repeat, if the Americans wanted to divide and rule, wouldn&#8217;t they be encouraging someone like him to &#8216;rule&#8217;? That would certainly set the Kurds and the Sunnis at the Shia&#8217;s throats.</p>

	<p>The fact is that by keeping Iraq together the Americans have more influence. If ever the country split, the Sunni and Shia areas would be no-go areas for the US and the Shia area at least is where (some of) the oil is.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151706</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151706</guid>
		<description>I mean, OK, maybe SCIRI is not so radical now, but they certainly are antagonistic to al-Sadr (as well as Sunnis and Kurds); Badr being their militia. Doesn&#039;t it kinda support my theory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I mean, OK, maybe <span class="caps">SCIRI</span> is not so radical now, but they certainly are antagonistic to al-Sadr (as well as Sunnis and Kurds); Badr being their militia. Doesn&#8217;t it kinda support my theory?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151694</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151694</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.justinlogan.com/justinlogancom/2006/04/putting_two_and.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Justin Logan&lt;/a&gt; writes:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Putting Two and Two Together

NYT, March 28 - &quot;Shiites Say U.S. Is Pressuring Iraqi Leader to Step Aside&quot;:
&lt;i&gt;
    Senior Shiite politicians said today that the American ambassador has told Shiite officials to inform the Iraqi prime minister that President Bush does not want him to remain the country&#039;s leader in the next government.
   [...]

    Ambassador Khalilzad said that President Bush &quot;doesn&#039;t want, doesn&#039;t support, doesn&#039;t accept&quot; Mr. Jaafari to be the next prime minister, according to Mr. Taki, a senior aide to Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, the head of the Shiite bloc. It was the first &quot;clear and direct message&quot; from the Americans on the issue of the candidate for prime minister, Mr. Taki said.
&lt;/i&gt;
Newsweek interview with Fatah al-Sheikh, consigliere to Sadr, April 10 issue:
&lt;i&gt;
    Tell us about the deal with Jaafari.
    Jaafari promised Moqtada that should he become prime minister with Moqtada&#039;s support, he would ... demand a timetable for the departure of Coalition troops from Iraq, the return of sovereignty to Iraq, the provision of services to the people and about nine other items. Dr. Jaafari agreed and submitted himself as an obedient soldier of Sayyid Moqtada. 
&lt;/i&gt;
Coincidence?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, the Bushies don&#039;t like Jaafari (for his allying with al-Sadr, perhaps) and the ethnic/sectarian tensions that exist help the Bushies get rid of Jaafari. Note that the Bushies don&#039;t put any pressure on the Sunnis and Kurds to accept Dr. Jaafari, no, the Bushies simply don&#039;t want Jaafari, simple as that. 

How is he a radical? He is a leader of Dawa; the alternative - SCIRI - is more radical and much more pro-Iranian according to wiki:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The SCIRI ideology was closely based on that of Iran&#039;s Ruhollah Khomeini, and was far closer to the Iranian model than al-Dawa, with the SCIRI supporting control of government by the ulema, arbiters of Islamic law.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.justinlogan.com/justinlogancom/2006/04/putting_two_and.html" rel="nofollow">Justin Logan</a> writes:<br />
<blockquote><br />
Putting Two and Two Together</blockquote></p>

	<p><span class="caps">NYT</span>, March 28 &#8211; &#8220;Shiites Say U.S. Is Pressuring Iraqi Leader to Step Aside&#8221;:<br />
<i><br />
Senior Shiite politicians said today that the American ambassador has told Shiite officials to inform the Iraqi prime minister that President Bush does not want him to remain the country&#8217;s leader in the next government.<br />
[...]</i></p>

	<p>Ambassador Khalilzad said that President Bush &#8220;doesn&#8217;t want, doesn&#8217;t support, doesn&#8217;t accept&#8221; Mr. Jaafari to be the next prime minister, according to Mr. Taki, a senior aide to Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, the head of the Shiite bloc. It was the first &#8220;clear and direct message&#8221; from the Americans on the issue of the candidate for prime minister, Mr. Taki said.<br />
<br />
Newsweek interview with Fatah al-Sheikh, consigliere to Sadr, April 10 issue:<br />
<i><br />
Tell us about the deal with Jaafari.<br />
Jaafari promised Moqtada that should he become prime minister with Moqtada&#8217;s support, he would &#8230; demand a timetable for the departure of Coalition troops from Iraq, the return of sovereignty to Iraq, the provision of services to the people and about nine other items. Dr. Jaafari agreed and submitted himself as an obedient soldier of Sayyid Moqtada.<br />
</i><br />
Coincidence?<br />
</p>

	<p>So, the Bushies don&#8217;t like Jaafari (for his allying with al-Sadr, perhaps) and the ethnic/sectarian tensions that exist help the Bushies get rid of Jaafari. Note that the Bushies don&#8217;t put any pressure on the Sunnis and Kurds to accept Dr. Jaafari, no, the Bushies simply don&#8217;t want Jaafari, simple as that.</p>

	<p>How is he a radical? He is a leader of Dawa; the alternative &#8211; <span class="caps">SCIRI </span>- is more radical and much more pro-Iranian according to wiki:<br />
<blockquote><br />
The <span class="caps">SCIRI</span> ideology was closely based on that of Iran&#8217;s Ruhollah Khomeini, and was far closer to the Iranian model than al-Dawa, with the <span class="caps">SCIRI</span> supporting control of government by the ulema, arbiters of Islamic law.<br />
</blockquote><blockquote></blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151673</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151673</guid>
		<description>I think the difference between us is quite subtle but it is there. I&#039;m not denying that the US is attempting to counterbalance the Shia majority by &#039;bigging up&#039; the Kurds and Sunnis. But I don&#039;t think they are doing it to pit the three against each other. In other words, I don&#039;t think they are doing it because they want the three sides to fight each other. I think they want the three to co-operate with each other. It&#039;s a bit like the three sides of a triangle: at the moment (according, I think, to the Americans) you have one &#039;side&#039; of the triangle grossly overbalancing the other two. The US would prefer something a bit more equilateral, I think. This doesn&#039;t mean that the resulting state would be necessarily weak, though (any more than the UK is weak because it is divided between the Welsh, Northern ireland, England and Scotland) or Belgium is weak because etc. 

If the US were actually seriously pitting the Shias AGAINST the Sunnis and the Kurds (as opposed to attempting to get the Shias to work WITH the Sunnis and the Kurds) then this would simply be to great a risk: the country might fly apart, and that really is the last thing the Americans want. Hence the reason the Americans are attempting to get rid of Jaafari: he is too associated with &#039;radical&#039; Shias. If the Americans were really trying to pit Shia against Sunni they would be all for Jaafari, as this would alienate the Sunnis even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think the difference between us is quite subtle but it is there. I&#8217;m not denying that the US is attempting to counterbalance the Shia majority by &#8216;bigging up&#8217; the Kurds and Sunnis. But I don&#8217;t think they are doing it to pit the three against each other. In other words, I don&#8217;t think they are doing it because they want the three sides to fight each other. I think they want the three to co-operate with each other. It&#8217;s a bit like the three sides of a triangle: at the moment (according, I think, to the Americans) you have one &#8216;side&#8217; of the triangle grossly overbalancing the other two. The US would prefer something a bit more equilateral, I think. This doesn&#8217;t mean that the resulting state would be necessarily weak, though (any more than the UK is weak because it is divided between the Welsh, Northern ireland, England and Scotland) or Belgium is weak because etc.</p>

	<p>If the US were actually seriously pitting the Shias <span class="caps">AGAINST</span> the Sunnis and the Kurds (as opposed to attempting to get the Shias to work <span class="caps">WITH</span> the Sunnis and the Kurds) then this would simply be to great a risk: the country might fly apart, and that really is the last thing the Americans want. Hence the reason the Americans are attempting to get rid of Jaafari: he is too associated with &#8216;radical&#8217; Shias. If the Americans were really trying to pit Shia against Sunni they would be all for Jaafari, as this would alienate the Sunnis even more.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151665</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151665</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if they necessarily want cheap oil. They want to control oil, use it for their geopolitical goals like containing China, pressuring the EU or whatever dreams their contemporary Kennans dream these days. 

Anyhow, I&#039;m not saying that ensuring domination over the Iraq region is a piece of cake; obviously it&#039;s a very messy and uncertain process. 

All I&#039;m saying is that &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt; when the Chalabi/Allawi plan obviously has failed, if you were the top US strategist - what would your plan B look like? To support a strong united mostly Islamic fundamentalist mostly anti-American government? Somehow I don&#039;t see the top US strategist considering this as a valid option. What are the other options?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know if they necessarily want cheap oil. They want to control oil, use it for their geopolitical goals like containing China, pressuring the EU or whatever dreams their contemporary Kennans dream these days.</p>

	<p>Anyhow, I&#8217;m not saying that ensuring domination over the Iraq region is a piece of cake; obviously it&#8217;s a very messy and uncertain process.</p>

	<p>All I&#8217;m saying is that <i>now</i> when the Chalabi/Allawi plan obviously has failed, if you were the top US strategist &#8211; what would your plan B look like? To support a strong united mostly Islamic fundamentalist mostly anti-American government? Somehow I don&#8217;t see the top US strategist considering this as a valid option. What are the other options?</p>
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		<title>By: brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151660</link>
		<dc:creator>brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151660</guid>
		<description>I was just reading &#039;A History of the Arab Peoples&#039; (2002, Penguin) by Albert Hourani, with an afterword by Malise Ruthven. He (i.e. Ruthven) writes (about the first Gulf War) &#039;The United States may have held back from pursuing the Iraqi forces to Baghdad becaue of ...fears...that such a course could lead to to the country&#039;s disintegration into three mutually hostile territories: a Southern Shia rump state vulnerable to iranian political control, a central rump core round baghdad ...and the Kurdish area of the North&#039; (pp468-469). 

Seems a bit strange (assuming this is true) that the US were frightened of this happening in the &#039;90s, and now actually want it to happen. 

In any case, this misses the key point. The salient phrase in that passage is &#039;mutually hostile&#039;. Assuming this does happen, it doesn&#039;t mean that the wars will necessarily stop. And assuming that is the case then the one thing that can absolutely be guaranteed is: no free flow of cheap oil. But that (most people agree) was the point of the invasion. So why would the US want it? 

You are talking as if the US&#039; political interests and its financial interests were opposed. I thought Marxists were meant to argue that these were the same thing? In any case: in this situation they undoubtedly are. America&#039;s financial and political and military muscle is built, in a very large part, on cheap oil. Why would the US pursue a course of action that is almost certain to lead to an increase in the price of oil (and will undoubtedly have &#039;collateral damage&#039; in terms of America&#039;s dealings with other Arab (i.e. oil producing) states)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was just reading &#8216;A History of the Arab Peoples&#8217; (2002, Penguin) by Albert Hourani, with an afterword by Malise Ruthven. He (i.e. Ruthven) writes (about the first Gulf War) &#8216;The United States may have held back from pursuing the Iraqi forces to Baghdad becaue of &#8230;fears&#8230;that such a course could lead to to the country&#8217;s disintegration into three mutually hostile territories: a Southern Shia rump state vulnerable to iranian political control, a central rump core round baghdad &#8230;and the Kurdish area of the North&#8217; (pp468-469).</p>

	<p>Seems a bit strange (assuming this is true) that the US were frightened of this happening in the &#8216;90s, and now actually want it to happen.</p>

	<p>In any case, this misses the key point. The salient phrase in that passage is &#8216;mutually hostile&#8217;. Assuming this does happen, it doesn&#8217;t mean that the wars will necessarily stop. And assuming that is the case then the one thing that can absolutely be guaranteed is: no free flow of cheap oil. But that (most people agree) was the point of the invasion. So why would the US want it?</p>

	<p>You are talking as if the US&#8217; political interests and its financial interests were opposed. I thought Marxists were meant to argue that these were the same thing? In any case: in this situation they undoubtedly are. America&#8217;s financial and political and military muscle is built, in a very large part, on cheap oil. Why would the US pursue a course of action that is almost certain to lead to an increase in the price of oil (and will undoubtedly have &#8216;collateral damage&#8217; in terms of America&#8217;s dealings with other Arab (i.e. oil producing) states)?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151654</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151654</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s right: Iraq was a large stable independent state. Which means it was a threat - threat to absolute dominance, impediment to projecting power; just like Iran or China or Russia or France for that matter.

There&#039;s no magical plan, the plan is always the same: collective punishment, acts of brutal retribution, intimidation, terror, manipulation. It&#039;s the opposite: &lt;i&gt;Iraqis&lt;/i&gt; would need magic to endure this treatment for a couple of decades and keep resisting. But, like The Man keeps saying, you need to be resolute and firm, and keep terrorising until it&#039;s over. It might take decades.

I still don&#039;t understand why Kurdistan should necessarily wreak such a havoc. I know there are some places in Iraq that are disputed, namely Kirkuk; but otherwise it&#039;s nothing like Israel: Kurds live there and they always lived there, and if their region becomes a state - why should Iran and Turkey be torn apart? Do you mean something like Kashmir will happen inside Turkey? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a bunch of ethnic Kurds will leave Turkey and move to Kurdistan and that&#039;ll be the end of it.

No, Britan always was a very strong united country. You&#039;re right: it&#039;s mostly &quot;weak&quot; that counts. 

I understand that Iraqi Kurdistan is not strong at all, there are apparently two large tribes there fighting each other all the time. That&#039;s perfect.

I think you do have a point about the hypothetical Shia-stan, it may very well be a hard nut to crack; well, I am sure strategists in Washington are working on this as we speak. They already have Mahdi vs. Badr potential opportunity for a split there; it&#039;s just a question of how to nourish it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That&#8217;s right: Iraq was a large stable independent state. Which means it was a threat &#8211; threat to absolute dominance, impediment to projecting power; just like Iran or China or Russia or France for that matter.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s no magical plan, the plan is always the same: collective punishment, acts of brutal retribution, intimidation, terror, manipulation. It&#8217;s the opposite: <i>Iraqis</i> would need magic to endure this treatment for a couple of decades and keep resisting. But, like The Man keeps saying, you need to be resolute and firm, and keep terrorising until it&#8217;s over. It might take decades.</p>

	<p>I still don&#8217;t understand why Kurdistan should necessarily wreak such a havoc. I know there are some places in Iraq that are disputed, namely Kirkuk; but otherwise it&#8217;s nothing like Israel: Kurds live there and they always lived there, and if their region becomes a state &#8211; why should Iran and Turkey be torn apart? Do you mean something like Kashmir will happen inside Turkey? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a bunch of ethnic Kurds will leave Turkey and move to Kurdistan and that&#8217;ll be the end of it.</p>

	<p>No, Britan always was a very strong united country. You&#8217;re right: it&#8217;s mostly &#8220;weak&#8221; that counts.</p>

	<p>I understand that Iraqi Kurdistan is not strong at all, there are apparently two large tribes there fighting each other all the time. That&#8217;s perfect.</p>

	<p>I think you do have a point about the hypothetical Shia-stan, it may very well be a hard nut to crack; well, I am sure strategists in Washington are working on this as we speak. They already have Mahdi vs. Badr potential opportunity for a split there; it&#8217;s just a question of how to nourish it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151640</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151640</guid>
		<description>But Iraq was easily managed before the invasion and it WAS a large (about the size of France, as I recall) relatively stable state. To argue otherwise is to pretend that it was a threat (to the Americans, or anyone). But the whole point of (at least one section) of the anti-invasion case was that Iraq WASN&#039;T a threat. You can&#039;t have it both ways. Again, one of the main reasons to oppose the invasion was that the Americans WOULDN&#039;T find it easy to &#039;pacify&#039; Iraq, and lo, so it came to pass. If you have some magical plan for stabilising Iraq perhaps you could pass it on to Donald Rumsfeld. Until this happy moment, the Americans will, more than likely, just flounder around aimlessly killing people more or less at random, while the country slips out of their grasp. Succesful anti-insurgency movements (contrary to popular belief) do sometimes work, but failure is more probable. America did, after all, lose Vietnam. 

There was of course no such place as Kurdistan in the &#039;90s. I&#039;m talking about the creation of a whole new sovereign state, which would tear Iran, Turkey, Syria, and Iraq apart. Think the creation of Israel times ten. 

A final point, you use &#039;small and weak&#039; as though these are synonyms. But Britain conquered most of the world despite the fact that it was a small country. Rome conquered the &#039;west&#039; and it wasn&#039;t even a country: it was a city. On the other hands, many countries (e.g. China in the fifties and sixties and throughout the late 19th century) are huge and weak. If Iraq breaks up, only the Sunni state is likely to be small and weak. Kurdistan and the new Shia state are likely to be small (ish) and strong, Kurdistan because it will be backed by Israel, and Shia-stan (or whatever) cos it will be backed by Iran, and because it will have oil. 

It&#039;s true this last bit of the equation will fail if Iran is &#039;taken out&#039; but it&#039;s very unlikely that American plans in this direction will be a success. Even Tony will bail out of Dubya goes nuclear on Iran&#039;s ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But Iraq was easily managed before the invasion and it <span class="caps">WAS</span> a large (about the size of France, as I recall) relatively stable state. To argue otherwise is to pretend that it was a threat (to the Americans, or anyone). But the whole point of (at least one section) of the anti-invasion case was that Iraq <span class="caps">WASN</span>&#8217;T a threat. You can&#8217;t have it both ways. Again, one of the main reasons to oppose the invasion was that the Americans <span class="caps">WOULDN</span>&#8217;T find it easy to &#8216;pacify&#8217; Iraq, and lo, so it came to pass. If you have some magical plan for stabilising Iraq perhaps you could pass it on to Donald Rumsfeld. Until this happy moment, the Americans will, more than likely, just flounder around aimlessly killing people more or less at random, while the country slips out of their grasp. Succesful anti-insurgency movements (contrary to popular belief) do sometimes work, but failure is more probable. America did, after all, lose Vietnam.</p>

	<p>There was of course no such place as Kurdistan in the &#8216;90s. I&#8217;m talking about the creation of a whole new sovereign state, which would tear Iran, Turkey, Syria, and Iraq apart. Think the creation of Israel times ten.</p>

	<p>A final point, you use &#8216;small and weak&#8217; as though these are synonyms. But Britain conquered most of the world despite the fact that it was a small country. Rome conquered the &#8216;west&#8217; and it wasn&#8217;t even a country: it was a city. On the other hands, many countries (e.g. China in the fifties and sixties and throughout the late 19th century) are huge and weak. If Iraq breaks up, only the Sunni state is likely to be small and weak. Kurdistan and the new Shia state are likely to be small (ish) and strong, Kurdistan because it will be backed by Israel, and Shia-stan (or whatever) cos it will be backed by Iran, and because it will have oil.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s true this last bit of the equation will fail if Iran is &#8216;taken out&#8217; but it&#8217;s very unlikely that American plans in this direction will be a success. Even Tony will bail out of Dubya goes nuclear on Iran&#8217;s ass.</p>
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		<title>By: jet</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151626</link>
		<dc:creator>jet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151626</guid>
		<description>Anyone who says &quot;Oil at $500 dollars a barrel, anyone? How about $1000?&quot; can&#039;t be all that smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Anyone who says &#8220;Oil at $500 dollars a barrel, anyone? How about $1000?&#8221; can&#8217;t be all that smart.</p>
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		<title>By: Noumenon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151623</link>
		<dc:creator>Noumenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151623</guid>
		<description>Brendan should start a comments blog like &lt;a href=&quot;http://d-squareddigest.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;D-Squared Digest&lt;/a&gt;.  He&#039;s very smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Brendan should start a comments blog like <a href="http://d-squareddigest.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">D-Squared Digest</a>.  He&#8217;s very smart.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/12/nir-rosen-in-boston-review/comment-page-1/#comment-151612</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 10:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4549#comment-151612</guid>
		<description>Nah, I don&#039;t think so. Small&amp;weak states can be easily managed: Jordan, Syria; even Saudi Arabia - because it&#039;s internally unstable, the ruling clique can&#039;t survive without powerful sponsor. Oil infrastructure can be defended. It&#039;s the large stable states with more representative governments (a-la Iran) that are dangerous. 

Of course you don&#039;t want a half dozen car-bombs going off in the capital every day, but that just a matter of time. Like the man said: eventually Iraq will have some kind of their own &#039;security forces&#039;; Badr/Sadr/Mukhabarat whatever.

I don&#039;t think Kurdistan would be a problem, there was already Kurdistan there in the 90s, nothing terrible happened.

The only real problem would be Iran becoming the sponsor of the Shia part, and that&#039;s one of the reasons Iran is the current Nazi Germany and has to be dealt with soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nah, I don&#8217;t think so. Small&#038;weak states can be easily managed: Jordan, Syria; even Saudi Arabia &#8211; because it&#8217;s internally unstable, the ruling clique can&#8217;t survive without powerful sponsor. Oil infrastructure can be defended. It&#8217;s the large stable states with more representative governments (a-la Iran) that are dangerous.</p>

	<p>Of course you don&#8217;t want a half dozen car-bombs going off in the capital every day, but that just a matter of time. Like the man said: eventually Iraq will have some kind of their own &#8216;security forces&#8217;; Badr/Sadr/Mukhabarat whatever.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t think Kurdistan would be a problem, there was already Kurdistan there in the 90s, nothing terrible happened.</p>

	<p>The only real problem would be Iran becoming the sponsor of the Shia part, and that&#8217;s one of the reasons Iran is the current Nazi Germany and has to be dealt with soon.</p>
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