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	<title>Comments on: Replication of results</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Nick Patterson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152908</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152908</guid>
		<description>I work in medical genetics.  The meaning of &quot;replicate&quot; in a genetic study 
is the same as in comment 28 above by an economist.   It means to show the 
same effect but on different data.  &quot;Failure to replicate&quot; may indicate 
a problem with the earlier study, or bad statistical luck, but is in no way 
considered an allegation of fraud.  Any issue of &quot;the American Journal of Human 
Genetics&quot; will demonstrate this usage.  So  Levitt&#039;s usage 
follows standard scientific practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I work in medical genetics.  The meaning of &#8220;replicate&#8221; in a genetic study<br />
is the same as in comment 28 above by an economist.   It means to show the<br />
same effect but on different data.  &#8220;Failure to replicate&#8221; may indicate<br />
a problem with the earlier study, or bad statistical luck, but is in no way<br />
considered an allegation of fraud.  Any issue of &#8220;the American Journal of Human<br />
Genetics&#8221; will demonstrate this usage.  So  Levitt&#8217;s usage<br />
follows standard scientific practice.</p>
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		<title>By: MQ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152809</link>
		<dc:creator>MQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152809</guid>
		<description>&quot;To take the same data, and run the same calculations on it, in the anticipation of possibly getting a different result, would be the very definition of insanity&quot;

Unless there was fraud in the original work.  To say that results cannot be replicated in the strictest possible sense is an accusation of fraud, to say that they are not robust to different models or slightly different data sets is another thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;To take the same data, and run the same calculations on it, in the anticipation of possibly getting a different result, would be the very definition of insanity&#8221;</p>

	<p>Unless there was fraud in the original work.  To say that results cannot be replicated in the strictest possible sense is an accusation of fraud, to say that they are not robust to different models or slightly different data sets is another thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152785</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152785</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I am an economist, and I have used the expression “replicate someone’s results” in many papers. Not a single time did I mean “with the exact same data and same methodology”. I have tried to replicate empirical results from the prior literature using different data sets, different time periods, different methodologies – that’s pretty much the point of most of my (and of most empirical) papers.

&lt;/i&gt;

I am also an economist, and that would be my understanding of &quot;replication&quot; as well.  My take on the issue is that this is yet another example of John Lott attempting to stifle any and all legitimate criticism of his research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I am an economist, and I have used the expression &#8220;replicate someone&#8217;s results&#8221; in many papers. Not a single time did I mean &#8220;with the exact same data and same methodology&#8221;. I have tried to replicate empirical results from the prior literature using different data sets, different time periods, different methodologies &#8211; that&#8217;s pretty much the point of most of my (and of most empirical) papers.</i></p>

	<p></p>

	<p>I am also an economist, and that would be my understanding of &#8220;replication&#8221; as well.  My take on the issue is that this is yet another example of John Lott attempting to stifle any and all legitimate criticism of his research.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152774</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152774</guid>
		<description>Levitt said that Lott&#039;s RESULTS COULD NOT BE REPLICATED.  The parsing about data and methods is just responding to a strawman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Levitt said that Lott&#8217;s <span class="caps">RESULTS COULD NOT BE REPLICATED</span>.  The parsing about data and methods is just responding to a strawman.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152773</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152773</guid>
		<description>If &quot;replicate&quot; means run the analysis with the same method on the same data, then the term is essentially useless in the social sciences.

For example, assume that the data was manifestly flawed.  Assume that the mathematical model was equally flawed.  Obviously, the product of such a model would be crap.  And yet you could &quot;replicate&quot; the analysis by applying the flawed model on flawed data.  

If scientific &quot;replication&quot; requires accepting manifestly flawed data and methodologies, then the whole enterprise is worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If &#8220;replicate&#8221; means run the analysis with the same method on the same data, then the term is essentially useless in the social sciences.</p>

	<p>For example, assume that the data was manifestly flawed.  Assume that the mathematical model was equally flawed.  Obviously, the product of such a model would be crap.  And yet you could &#8220;replicate&#8221; the analysis by applying the flawed model on flawed data.</p>

	<p>If scientific &#8220;replication&#8221; requires accepting manifestly flawed data and methodologies, then the whole enterprise is worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaoem</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152762</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaoem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152762</guid>
		<description>&quot;However, his objection to people using different data sets, appears to be that he went out and collected the largest possible data set, all 50 states, and that anybody who is using a different set of data can only be using a subset of the data he used.

He’s claiming that they’re cherry picking, in other words.&quot;

Nope. The &quot;failure to replicate&quot; statement came with a citation to an article that used Lott&#039;s methodology and dataset but that corrected some of the coding errors he made. If &quot;replicate&quot; unambiguosly means: run the analysis with the same method on the same data if these contain errors, then Lott has a case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;However, his objection to people using different data sets, appears to be that he went out and collected the largest possible data set, all 50 states, and that anybody who is using a different set of data can only be using a subset of the data he used.</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s claiming that they&#8217;re cherry picking, in other words.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Nope. The &#8220;failure to replicate&#8221; statement came with a citation to an article that used Lott&#8217;s methodology and dataset but that corrected some of the coding errors he made. If &#8220;replicate&#8221; unambiguosly means: run the analysis with the same method on the same data if these contain errors, then Lott has a case.</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152748</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152748</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152672&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Henry&lt;/a&gt;: hey, that made me laugh.

Brett Bellmore: 50 states is all the data? Hmm, I guess now it&#039;s my turn to restore the fundamental equilibrium of the universe, where by &quot;universe&quot; I mean &quot;America&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152672" rel="nofollow">Henry</a>: hey, that made me laugh.</p>

	<p>Brett Bellmore: 50 states is all the data? Hmm, I guess now it&#8217;s my turn to restore the fundamental equilibrium of the universe, where by &#8220;universe&#8221; I mean &#8220;America&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Bellmore</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152743</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Bellmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152743</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see Lott having any objection if people went out and collected the same data he did, instead of trusting his collection of it. 

However, his objection to people using *different* data sets, appears to be that he went out and collected the largest possible data set, all 50 states, and that anybody who is using a *different* set of data can only be using a *subset* of the data he used. 

He&#039;s claiming that they&#039;re cherry picking, in other words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t see Lott having any objection if people went out and collected the same data he did, instead of trusting his collection of it.</p>

	<p>However, his objection to people using <strong>different</strong> data sets, appears to be that he went out and collected the largest possible data set, all 50 states, and that anybody who is using a <strong>different</strong> set of data can only be using a <strong>subset</strong> of the data he used.</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s claiming that they&#8217;re cherry picking, in other words.</p>
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		<title>By: nik</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152731</link>
		<dc:creator>nik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 08:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152731</guid>
		<description>&quot;Replication in the sense required by Lott is essentially impossible in biology.&quot;

It isn&#039;t, is it? In Lott&#039;s sense wouldn&#039;t this mean re-running the analysis of the experiment using the original data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Replication in the sense required by Lott is essentially impossible in biology.&#8221;</p>

	<p>It isn&#8217;t, is it? In Lott&#8217;s sense wouldn&#8217;t this mean re-running the analysis of the experiment using the original data.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152715</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152715</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Hmmm, just read a short paper in AER (2002) about redoing/replicating your regressions on different software packages, particularly if you’re doing MLE&lt;/i&gt;

ahhh I see what you mean, although given the crap that Lott has produced with simple linear regressions, the idea of him getting access to maximum likelihood estimation fills me with terror.  I seem to remember he did actually develop an enthusiasm for the twice censored tobit once actually, although not in the guns n crime work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Hmmm, just read a short paper in <span class="caps">AER </span>(2002) about redoing/replicating your regressions on different software packages, particularly if you&#8217;re doing <span class="caps">MLE</span></i></p>

	<p>ahhh I see what you mean, although given the crap that Lott has produced with simple linear regressions, the idea of him getting access to maximum likelihood estimation fills me with terror.  I seem to remember he did actually develop an enthusiasm for the twice censored tobit once actually, although not in the guns n crime work.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152714</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 05:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152714</guid>
		<description>Replication in the sense required by Lott is essentially impossible in biology. You&#039;d have to use the same experimental subjects twice.

Mostly, replication in biology means repeating the experiment with new subjects, but the same protocols. The analogous case in economics is fitting the same model to a new or expanded data set.

(After writing this, I see I&#039;m replicating eudoxis).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Replication in the sense required by Lott is essentially impossible in biology. You&#8217;d have to use the same experimental subjects twice.</p>

	<p>Mostly, replication in biology means repeating the experiment with new subjects, but the same protocols. The analogous case in economics is fitting the same model to a new or expanded data set.</p>

	<p>(After writing this, I see I&#8217;m replicating eudoxis).</p>
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		<title>By: rc</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152710</link>
		<dc:creator>rc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 04:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152710</guid>
		<description>In #4, Matt wrote:
&lt;i&gt;A typical use for ‘replicate’ is in biology[...] a second group replicates the result when using the same inputs and the same protocol yields the same product with the same property. Looks like Levitt slipped.&lt;/i&gt;

Hmmm. In that case, the method is the same but the data are collected independently. Lott claims that &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; the data and the method must be the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In #4, Matt wrote:<br />
<i>A typical use for &#8216;replicate&#8217; is in biology[...] a second group replicates the result when using the same inputs and the same protocol yields the same product with the same property. Looks like Levitt slipped.</i></p>

	<p>Hmmm. In that case, the method is the same but the data are collected independently. Lott claims that <i>both</i> the data and the method must be the same.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152704</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Apr 2006 00:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152704</guid>
		<description>nik, the terms internal and external validity are used in exactly the same way in the labour market program evaluation literature (not surprising as they&#039;ve pinched lots of techniques from biometrics).

But clearly this fool Lott just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>nik, the terms internal and external validity are used in exactly the same way in the labour market program evaluation literature (not surprising as they&#8217;ve pinched lots of techniques from biometrics).</p>

	<p>But clearly this fool Lott just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152699</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152699</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Understand this simple principle and its many corollaries, and you’ll be well on the way to being able to appreciate Brett Bellmore’s unique contribution to discussions on this blog.&lt;/i&gt;

It is a very pretty hobby horse that he likes to ride, isn&#039;t it? Especially with the after-market shotgun rack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Understand this simple principle and its many corollaries, and you&#8217;ll be well on the way to being able to appreciate Brett Bellmore&#8217;s unique contribution to discussions on this blog.</i></p>

	<p>It is a very pretty hobby horse that he likes to ride, isn&#8217;t it? Especially with the after-market shotgun rack.</p>
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		<title>By: rea</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/comment-page-1/#comment-152693</link>
		<dc:creator>rea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/04/20/replication-of-results/#comment-152693</guid>
		<description>Defamation is about damage to reputation.  This means that Leavitt&#039;s attorneys would (if this turkey ever goes to trial) have the pleasure of parading Lott&#039;s entire dubious history before the jury.  Can you imagine Lott being cross-examined under oath regarding Mary Rousch?

Given all the self-inflicted damage to Lott&#039;s reputation, how could &quot;replicate,&quot; even if used falsely and maliciously, hurt Lott&#039;s reputation further?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Defamation is about damage to reputation.  This means that Leavitt&#8217;s attorneys would (if this turkey ever goes to trial) have the pleasure of parading Lott&#8217;s entire dubious history before the jury.  Can you imagine Lott being cross-examined under oath regarding Mary Rousch?</p>

	<p>Given all the self-inflicted damage to Lott&#8217;s reputation, how could &#8220;replicate,&#8221; even if used falsely and maliciously, hurt Lott&#8217;s reputation further?</p>
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