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	<title>Comments on: Sue Gerhardt on Why Love Matters (Daycare Revisited)</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: pedro f</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154665</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro f</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 15:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154665</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just started to read the book.  For what it&#039;s worth, I absolutely love it so far, and I&#039;m so thankful to Harry for bringing it to attention just as I&#039;m getting ready to be a father for the first time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve just started to read the book.  For what it&#8217;s worth, I absolutely love it so far, and I&#8217;m so thankful to Harry for bringing it to attention just as I&#8217;m getting ready to be a father for the first time.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154637</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 11:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154637</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fascinated by the discussion and am glad to see the author herself weighing in. James, watch the biological essentialism there. That&#039;s a pretty nasty case you&#039;ve got.

I&#039;m wondering what studies like this will do for policy.  I mentioned earlier that many policies put in place to allow parents to stay home in those first crucial years of life are not used by men, meaning that we are back to putting the burden of childrearing on women. I like Sue&#039;s idea of thinking a bit more radically, but I&#039;m not optimistic that we can get off this tragectory we&#039;re on that continues to devalue the work of caring for people (the very young and the very old). I think it&#039;s going to take a sea change at the governmental level, but also in many, many industries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m fascinated by the discussion and am glad to see the author herself weighing in. James, watch the biological essentialism there. That&#8217;s a pretty nasty case you&#8217;ve got.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m wondering what studies like this will do for policy.  I mentioned earlier that many policies put in place to allow parents to stay home in those first crucial years of life are not used by men, meaning that we are back to putting the burden of childrearing on women. I like Sue&#8217;s idea of thinking a bit more radically, but I&#8217;m not optimistic that we can get off this tragectory we&#8217;re on that continues to devalue the work of caring for people (the very young and the very old). I think it&#8217;s going to take a sea change at the governmental level, but also in many, many industries.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154577</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 16:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154577</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Sue, for expanding on harry&#039;s post. I&#039;m looking forward to reading your book to learn more about specifics of your study.  I think we need new solutions to properly care for children and to enable parents to provide care without losing their marbles in the solitude of a home.  

You wrote: &quot;So I am much more interested in solutions that involve fathers in childcare, and the local community too, and give women and men a balance between adult participation and caring for their own small child.&quot;  

Do you write about policy and politics in this book?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, Sue, for expanding on harry&#8217;s post. I&#8217;m looking forward to reading your book to learn more about specifics of your study.  I think we need new solutions to properly care for children and to enable parents to provide care without losing their marbles in the solitude of a home.</p>

	<p>You wrote: &#8220;So I am much more interested in solutions that involve fathers in childcare, and the local community too, and give women and men a balance between adult participation and caring for their own small child.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Do you write about policy and politics in this book?</p>
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		<title>By: james</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154576</link>
		<dc:creator>james</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 16:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154576</guid>
		<description>On the gender issue: to be blunt, as a broad generalisation, women like babies more than men do. They want babies more than men do, want more of them, and want them earlier in life. I&#039;m not sure culture is the sole culprit for this. I think at the root of it is possibly to do with having a womb vs. having to find someone with a womb means men and women form different life plans and aspirations. Which means they place a different levels of importance on having kids.

I think many men will have kids if someone else will look after them and they don&#039;t have to sacrifice their careers, but also wouldn&#039;t find not having kids all that terrible. Whereas women are more more eager to have them, and more willing to make sacrifices by opting out of employment. So I&#039;m not sure getting men and women equally committed to childcare is all that possible. I think many men would only choose kids given that someone else does the dirty work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the gender issue: to be blunt, as a broad generalisation, women like babies more than men do. They want babies more than men do, want more of them, and want them earlier in life. I&#8217;m not sure culture is the sole culprit for this. I think at the root of it is possibly to do with having a womb vs. having to find someone with a womb means men and women form different life plans and aspirations. Which means they place a different levels of importance on having kids.</p>

	<p>I think many men will have kids if someone else will look after them and they don&#8217;t have to sacrifice their careers, but also wouldn&#8217;t find not having kids all that terrible. Whereas women are more more eager to have them, and more willing to make sacrifices by opting out of employment. So I&#8217;m not sure getting men and women equally committed to childcare is all that possible. I think many men would only choose kids given that someone else does the dirty work.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154569</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 15:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154569</guid>
		<description>Jake.  I disagree: cohort studies are what you do when you can&#039;t do controlled experiments; they are always second best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jake.  I disagree: cohort studies are what you do when you can&#8217;t do controlled experiments; they are always second best.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-2/#comment-154562</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 14:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154562</guid>
		<description>andy; I&#039;m in exactly the same situation (2 already, 1 on the way) and had exactly the same experience of reading the book as you; maybe it would have been useful to say more about that, but I felt it would be too intrusive. I don&#039;t see how anyone could read it and not have that reaction. I think one of the questions you have (if you still have more kids to start raising) is &quot;how can I do what is right about this for the baby?&quot; In my own case I have two girls, and the one on the way is a boy, and I couldn&#039;t help thinking a lot about how to try and ensure that the boy will be more emotionally literate than I am, or at least was as a boy and young man; more like my girls than I was. Oh, and congratulations!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>andy; I&#8217;m in exactly the same situation (2 already, 1 on the way) and had exactly the same experience of reading the book as you; maybe it would have been useful to say more about that, but I felt it would be too intrusive. I don&#8217;t see how anyone could read it and not have that reaction. I think one of the questions you have (if you still have more kids to start raising) is &#8220;how can I do what is right about this for the baby?&#8221; In my own case I have two girls, and the one on the way is a boy, and I couldn&#8217;t help thinking a lot about how to try and ensure that the boy will be more emotionally literate than I am, or at least was as a boy and young man; more like my girls than I was. Oh, and congratulations!</p>
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		<title>By: cw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154558</link>
		<dc:creator>cw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 14:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154558</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read the book, but I bet the author&#039;s recommended childrearing practices match what has been recognized by other sources in the US as the current white middle-class child-rearing practice of choice (that was not a great sentence). Basically, the infant gets lots of physical and verbal attention, is carried rather than pushed in a stroller, is included in adult activities, is constantly read to and played with, etc.... I have seen (second hand) some evidence that suggest that this does a better job of developing the brain and also is the reason middle-class white kids start school with an advantage over their poorer counterparts. 

Any child-rearing strategy is a cultural phenomenon and has cultural implications. Some people talk about this as a better way to raise a child--and it may well be--but you have to remember that we are judging this by end results which usually mean favorable educational results. We raise kids this way, they do better in school, schools we have designed to get certain kinds of results. 

I&#039;m not sure how this parenting style came about. it is a recent development. I think  &quot;experts&quot; like Dr. Spock had something to do with it, as has later brain research. Anyway, white middle-class parents have been especially receptive to certain kinds of recommendations, and I think it is becasue they believe it will improve their child&#039;s school performance. Not always consciously, maybe. But the rational behind all the recommendations are usually intellectual and academic. Read to your kid so your kid will be a better reader. Explain to your kid what you are doing through out the day so that they will make multiple synaptic connections and therefor develope better critical thinking skill. Or whatever. And this makes sense because how well you do in school in our society, especially for the middle-class, determines to a huge extent how will you will do in adult life.

Anyway, I have no real point, I just think it&#039;s interesting and beneficial to think about child-rearing practices from a cultural standpoint. How did these strategies come about? What is the ideal adult these strategies are supposed to create? And the fact that this current child-rearing strategy is being more and more promoted is a cultural phenomnon in and of itself and worth of being examined.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I haven&#8217;t read the book, but I bet the author&#8217;s recommended childrearing practices match what has been recognized by other sources in the US as the current white middle-class child-rearing practice of choice (that was not a great sentence). Basically, the infant gets lots of physical and verbal attention, is carried rather than pushed in a stroller, is included in adult activities, is constantly read to and played with, etc&#8230;. I have seen (second hand) some evidence that suggest that this does a better job of developing the brain and also is the reason middle-class white kids start school with an advantage over their poorer counterparts.</p>

	<p>Any child-rearing strategy is a cultural phenomenon and has cultural implications. Some people talk about this as a better way to raise a child&#8212;and it may well be&#8212;but you have to remember that we are judging this by end results which usually mean favorable educational results. We raise kids this way, they do better in school, schools we have designed to get certain kinds of results.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not sure how this parenting style came about. it is a recent development. I think  &#8220;experts&#8221; like Dr. Spock had something to do with it, as has later brain research. Anyway, white middle-class parents have been especially receptive to certain kinds of recommendations, and I think it is becasue they believe it will improve their child&#8217;s school performance. Not always consciously, maybe. But the rational behind all the recommendations are usually intellectual and academic. Read to your kid so your kid will be a better reader. Explain to your kid what you are doing through out the day so that they will make multiple synaptic connections and therefor develope better critical thinking skill. Or whatever. And this makes sense because how well you do in school in our society, especially for the middle-class, determines to a huge extent how will you will do in adult life.</p>

	<p>Anyway, I have no real point, I just think it&#8217;s interesting and beneficial to think about child-rearing practices from a cultural standpoint. How did these strategies come about? What is the ideal adult these strategies are supposed to create? And the fact that this current child-rearing strategy is being more and more promoted is a cultural phenomnon in and of itself and worth of being examined.</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154557</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154557</guid>
		<description>Harry, I think some of the &quot;misrepresentation&quot; of Gerhardt&#039;s book that you&#039;re seeing can be explained by the emotionally charged subject matter, coupled with the fact that most of us probably haven&#039;t read the book yet. I picked it up yesterday at the library and read the first three chapters last night, and am finding it quite interesting. But as the parent of two children and of a third soon to arrive, I can&#039;t help but read the book with an eye on both my own parenting and the emotional development of my children, and of myown emotional development and the parenting of my parents. I imagine this is something that psychologists must struggle with when reading about mental health: &quot;does this diagnose ME?&quot;. Particularly when the daycare topic arises in these comments, I think I can see some of that happening here. I say this just to put in a good word for the book, which I wouldn&#039;t want to see ignored just because it might make claims that one could take as critical of one&#039;s childraising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Harry, I think some of the &#8220;misrepresentation&#8221; of Gerhardt&#8217;s book that you&#8217;re seeing can be explained by the emotionally charged subject matter, coupled with the fact that most of us probably haven&#8217;t read the book yet. I picked it up yesterday at the library and read the first three chapters last night, and am finding it quite interesting. But as the parent of two children and of a third soon to arrive, I can&#8217;t help but read the book with an eye on both my own parenting and the emotional development of my children, and of myown emotional development and the parenting of my parents. I imagine this is something that psychologists must struggle with when reading about mental health: &#8220;does this diagnose ME?&#8221;. Particularly when the daycare topic arises in these comments, I think I can see some of that happening here. I say this just to put in a good word for the book, which I wouldn&#8217;t want to see ignored just because it might make claims that one could take as critical of one&#8217;s childraising.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154556</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 14:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154556</guid>
		<description>Laura, 

right, I think that&#039;s important, and as someone pointed out much further up, most of the evidence about these things concerns i) large amounts of daycare and, perhaps more complicatedly, ii) the risks of extremely bad outcomes (severe depression, being a psycho-killer... oh, no, not that one). So it is hard to make judgments about middling amounts of daycare and the relationship to middling outcomes. Its all about probabilities and costs, and for parents as well as children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Laura,</p>

	<p>right, I think that&#8217;s important, and as someone pointed out much further up, most of the evidence about these things concerns i) large amounts of daycare and, perhaps more complicatedly, ii) the risks of extremely bad outcomes (severe depression, being a psycho-killer&#8230; oh, no, not that one). So it is hard to make judgments about middling amounts of daycare and the relationship to middling outcomes. Its all about probabilities and costs, and for parents as well as children.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154555</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 14:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154555</guid>
		<description>harry, there is also the degree question.  How bad is full time daycare?  I&#039;m willing to trade a little of my kid&#039;s happiness for mine.  I found breast feeding to be a giant pain in the ass and never made it the recommended one year marker.  I put my kid in a small amount of bad daycare, because I had to finish my dissertation.  I let my kids watch TV and forget to brush their teeth.  Still, I&#039;m sure that those trangressions aren&#039;t going to turn my kids into psycho-killers.  

I&#039;m looking forward to reading the book to find out more about Gerhardt&#039;s research and methodology.  I&#039;ve got too many questions for a blog comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>harry, there is also the degree question.  How bad is full time daycare?  I&#8217;m willing to trade a little of my kid&#8217;s happiness for mine.  I found breast feeding to be a giant pain in the ass and never made it the recommended one year marker.  I put my kid in a small amount of bad daycare, because I had to finish my dissertation.  I let my kids watch TV and forget to brush their teeth.  Still, I&#8217;m sure that those trangressions aren&#8217;t going to turn my kids into psycho-killers.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to reading the book to find out more about Gerhardt&#8217;s research and methodology.  I&#8217;ve got too many questions for a blog comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Gerhardt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154550</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Gerhardt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 13:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154550</guid>
		<description>Great to see so much discussion of Why Love Matters, the themes are familiar since in the UK many have responded to the political questions it raises re daycare rather than to the science it presents. My aim was for people to know more about how a baby&#039;s brain develops, and to understand that it develops interactively- so that we can make informed decisions about the kind of early caregiving we provide. There is still a lack of awareness that very early development is largely about EMOTIONAL development.  
(By the way, Joe O., the paper on cortisol you quote doesn&#039;t deal with neonates, it is looking at twin studies in general which to me is quite meaningless.  The stress response which produces cortisol is set up in the first 6 months or so, and if that period of life is over-stressed,the stress response will be &quot;set&quot; to over-react or under-react.  Unless you compare neonates you are simply comparing environmental influences.)
If we want to provide our children with good emotional foundations, in the form of a balanced stress response and good development of the pre-frontal cortex and other areas of the emotional brain, we have to think about what THEY need in the period when these emotion systems are developing. I think that infants need relationships that keep them in a reasonably stress-free state, with people who respond positively to them as potential, emerging personalities and pay attention to who they are becoming over time.  In theory very expensive daycare with key workers who take care of &quot;their&quot; babies, who are paid well enough to stay over a period of years, and love their job enough to turn up when they have a hangover, etc, could provide a baby with the essentials.  But in practice studies have found that daycare workers do have high turnover, and have in the past been reluctant to get involved emotionally with their charges. Many nurseries have a harsh ethos, urging premature independence. Some studies have found that children in daycare are stressed (have high cortisol) even when they appear to have adjusted.
On the other hand, there are studies that show that if a child has established a secure attachment to their parent before they attend daycare, that relationship will not be affected by attending daycare. Daycare has the worst effects on children who are not secure (in attachment terms) in their own families.
But attachment security takes time to develop, most of the first year, so it still brings us back to parental care for at least the first year unless things are not good at home.
As Harry suggests, my conclusion from years of study is that daycare is not the best place for babies and toddlers, but has real benefits for children from the age of about 2 or 3.
I do see myself as a feminist, but I think we have to recognise that it is time for a rethink of our attitudes to work and childcare.  I agree with Ingrid that we don&#039;t just want women to have the option to join the man&#039;s world, we need something more radical where caring for children (and each other) is given more value. I personally think that for one individual, man or woman, to be stuck at home 24/7 with a small baby drives many people crazy and is not what humans were designed for..our ancestors brought up children in small groups.  So I am much more interested in solutions that involve fathers in childcare, and the local community too, and give women and men a balance between adult participation and caring for their own small child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Great to see so much discussion of Why Love Matters, the themes are familiar since in the UK many have responded to the political questions it raises re daycare rather than to the science it presents. My aim was for people to know more about how a baby&#8217;s brain develops, and to understand that it develops interactively- so that we can make informed decisions about the kind of early caregiving we provide. There is still a lack of awareness that very early development is largely about <span class="caps">EMOTIONAL</span> development.<br />
(By the way, Joe O., the paper on cortisol you quote doesn&#8217;t deal with neonates, it is looking at twin studies in general which to me is quite meaningless.  The stress response which produces cortisol is set up in the first 6 months or so, and if that period of life is over-stressed,the stress response will be &#8220;set&#8221; to over-react or under-react.  Unless you compare neonates you are simply comparing environmental influences.)<br />
If we want to provide our children with good emotional foundations, in the form of a balanced stress response and good development of the pre-frontal cortex and other areas of the emotional brain, we have to think about what <span class="caps">THEY</span> need in the period when these emotion systems are developing. I think that infants need relationships that keep them in a reasonably stress-free state, with people who respond positively to them as potential, emerging personalities and pay attention to who they are becoming over time.  In theory very expensive daycare with key workers who take care of &#8220;their&#8221; babies, who are paid well enough to stay over a period of years, and love their job enough to turn up when they have a hangover, etc, could provide a baby with the essentials.  But in practice studies have found that daycare workers do have high turnover, and have in the past been reluctant to get involved emotionally with their charges. Many nurseries have a harsh ethos, urging premature independence. Some studies have found that children in daycare are stressed (have high cortisol) even when they appear to have adjusted.<br />
On the other hand, there are studies that show that if a child has established a secure attachment to their parent before they attend daycare, that relationship will not be affected by attending daycare. Daycare has the worst effects on children who are not secure (in attachment terms) in their own families.<br />
But attachment security takes time to develop, most of the first year, so it still brings us back to parental care for at least the first year unless things are not good at home.<br />
As Harry suggests, my conclusion from years of study is that daycare is not the best place for babies and toddlers, but has real benefits for children from the age of about 2 or 3.<br />
I do see myself as a feminist, but I think we have to recognise that it is time for a rethink of our attitudes to work and childcare.  I agree with Ingrid that we don&#8217;t just want women to have the option to join the man&#8217;s world, we need something more radical where caring for children (and each other) is given more value. I personally think that for one individual, man or woman, to be stuck at home 24/7 with a small baby drives many people crazy and is not what humans were designed for..our ancestors brought up children in small groups.  So I am much more interested in solutions that involve fathers in childcare, and the local community too, and give women and men a balance between adult participation and caring for their own small child.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154545</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 13:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154545</guid>
		<description>As soon as anyone describes daycare as &quot;cared for by strangers&quot; I find it difficult not to write them off as hopelessly biased. In the state where I live, the required ratio of caregivers to infants/toddlers is 1:3.5 (yeah, make up your own punchline) and turnover is typically at a level where children will have the same set of caregivers for much of their tenure in daycare.

Meanwhile, even if it is true that &quot;one to one&quot; attention is best for infants and small children, even with fulltime stay-at-home parenting, only first offspring or siblings with unusually long spacing will ever experience that one-to-one attention. It sounds very much as if Gerhardt is setting up a picture of utopian (in the original sense) child-rearing practices and then talking about how daycare in particular (oh, yes, and much stay-at-home care too, but not as loudly) cannot possibly live up to the ideal.

It&#039;s clear that (in the US at least) conditions of work for most families should be rearranged to be less hostile to children. But even now, one of the unnoticed benefits of feminism is that it&#039;s not considered perfectly reasonable for a mother to hate her children for destroying all of her hopes and ambitions. A small step, but a step.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As soon as anyone describes daycare as &#8220;cared for by strangers&#8221; I find it difficult not to write them off as hopelessly biased. In the state where I live, the required ratio of caregivers to infants/toddlers is 1:3.5 (yeah, make up your own punchline) and turnover is typically at a level where children will have the same set of caregivers for much of their tenure in daycare.</p>

	<p>Meanwhile, even if it is true that &#8220;one to one&#8221; attention is best for infants and small children, even with fulltime stay-at-home parenting, only first offspring or siblings with unusually long spacing will ever experience that one-to-one attention. It sounds very much as if Gerhardt is setting up a picture of utopian (in the original sense) child-rearing practices and then talking about how daycare in particular (oh, yes, and much stay-at-home care too, but not as loudly) cannot possibly live up to the ideal.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s clear that (in the US at least) conditions of work for most families should be rearranged to be less hostile to children. But even now, one of the unnoticed benefits of feminism is that it&#8217;s not considered perfectly reasonable for a mother to hate her children for destroying all of her hopes and ambitions. A small step, but a step.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry B</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154542</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 13:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154542</guid>
		<description>Some of the comments certainly make me think I haven&#039;t represented the book as well as I could have. It is no part of Gerhardt&#039;s mission to blame people for the choices they make, and I think she recognizes the important point that Laura makes, that what is best for the child and what is best for the parent may not coincide. Most of the book concerns what is actually going on inside the kid (as far as we can discern), and in the course of it she says a lot of sensible things, which are valuable whether you use daycare or not, about how we should treat our children when we are with them; a great deal of which, for me, articulated what I already knew but couldn&#039;t have articulated.  Her main policy objective is to get more paid parental leave and more support for mental health care(of parents and children), and yes, she particularly thinks that full time daycare is not the best thing, at least for under-2s, and that policy should reflect this judgement. At present policy in the US is pro-daycare and strongly against parental leave (subsidizing one but not the other, for instance). 

Now I&#039;m speaking as me, not as her, because I don&#039;t quite know what to attribute to her, although full time daycare for the under-2s is not the best thing, it might well be good enough. Laura&#039;s point cuts both ways; we shouldn&#039;t just assume that what is best for the parent is best for the child. 

Also, it may be right that an economy that faciliated more flexible hours (and in which we worked fewer hours) would result in fewer women staying home full time, and more staying home part time; that&#039;s a good point, and makes sense to me. It might also facilitate the cultural revolution that would be needed for men to do a great deal more childrearing. As I said in the original post, the all-work-all-the-time program does not facilitate that; it ensures that women do most childcaring, just women who are paid to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Some of the comments certainly make me think I haven&#8217;t represented the book as well as I could have. It is no part of Gerhardt&#8217;s mission to blame people for the choices they make, and I think she recognizes the important point that Laura makes, that what is best for the child and what is best for the parent may not coincide. Most of the book concerns what is actually going on inside the kid (as far as we can discern), and in the course of it she says a lot of sensible things, which are valuable whether you use daycare or not, about how we should treat our children when we are with them; a great deal of which, for me, articulated what I already knew but couldn&#8217;t have articulated.  Her main policy objective is to get more paid parental leave and more support for mental health care(of parents and children), and yes, she particularly thinks that full time daycare is not the best thing, at least for under-2s, and that policy should reflect this judgement. At present policy in the US is pro-daycare and strongly against parental leave (subsidizing one but not the other, for instance).</p>

	<p>Now I&#8217;m speaking as me, not as her, because I don&#8217;t quite know what to attribute to her, although full time daycare for the under-2s is not the best thing, it might well be good enough. Laura&#8217;s point cuts both ways; we shouldn&#8217;t just assume that what is best for the parent is best for the child.</p>

	<p>Also, it may be right that an economy that faciliated more flexible hours (and in which we worked fewer hours) would result in fewer women staying home full time, and more staying home part time; that&#8217;s a good point, and makes sense to me. It might also facilitate the cultural revolution that would be needed for men to do a great deal more childrearing. As I said in the original post, the all-work-all-the-time program does not facilitate that; it ensures that women do most childcaring, just women who are paid to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154536</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 12:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154536</guid>
		<description>laura b., don&#039;t you think that studies like this one that show that mega hours of bad daycare hurts kids could provide some political leverage to make changes.  If men and business leaders aren&#039;t confronted with the facts, then they have no incentive to change.  I guess I haven&#039;t given up on men yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>laura b., don&#8217;t you think that studies like this one that show that mega hours of bad daycare hurts kids could provide some political leverage to make changes.  If men and business leaders aren&#8217;t confronted with the facts, then they have no incentive to change.  I guess I haven&#8217;t given up on men yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/04/sue-gerhardt-on-why-love-matters-daycare-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-154530</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 11:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4634#comment-154530</guid>
		<description>I will also point out that there have been studies done on Sweden and Norway&#039;s leave system to show that men are less likely to take advantage of it. In the US, men taking more responsibility for parenting would require a cultural shift of monumental proportions.  As somebody said above, call me when that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I will also point out that there have been studies done on Sweden and Norway&#8217;s leave system to show that men are less likely to take advantage of it. In the US, men taking more responsibility for parenting would require a cultural shift of monumental proportions.  As somebody said above, call me when that happens.</p>
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