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	<title>Comments on: Cutting and running</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155325</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 14:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155325</guid>
		<description>John Dolan at exile.ru has this joke:

An Irishman has been bayoneted by a British soldier, and as the Mick dies slowly in a ditch the Brit kicks him over and over, cursing him and wishing him a painful, slow death. With his last breath the Irishman asks, &quot;Why are you so angry at us?&quot; The Brit leans down, whispers, &quot;You swine, we will NEVER forgive you for what we&#039;ve done to you.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Dolan at exile.ru has this joke:</p>

	<p>An Irishman has been bayoneted by a British soldier, and as the Mick dies slowly in a ditch the Brit kicks him over and over, cursing him and wishing him a painful, slow death. With his last breath the Irishman asks, &#8220;Why are you so angry at us?&#8221; The Brit leans down, whispers, &#8220;You swine, we will <span class="caps">NEVER</span> forgive you for what we&#8217;ve done to you.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155316</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 13:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155316</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?&lt;/i&gt;

The one just before the British invaded Hong Kong, but after they expelled the indigenous &lt;i&gt;Malvinos&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?</i></p>

	<p>The one just before the British invaded Hong Kong, but after they expelled the indigenous <i>Malvinos</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155304</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 09:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155304</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?&lt;/i&gt;

Isn&#039;t there a quite brilliant historical documentary, starring Mel Gibson, that answers this question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?</i></p>

	<p>Isn&#8217;t there a quite brilliant historical documentary, starring Mel Gibson, that answers this question?</p>
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		<title>By: guthrie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155303</link>
		<dc:creator>guthrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 May 2006 09:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155303</guid>
		<description>I think Ted is joking, but if not, heres an impromptu (And possibly slightl innacurate) history lesson:

Or at least I would if Chris Betram had not already done so.

So Ted, when did the word British come into use?  

Note also that many people in Enlightenment Edinburgh were calling themselves North Britons, back in the 18th century.  

And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?  You do know that large numbers of Scotsmen fought on Cumberlands side at Culloden?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think Ted is joking, but if not, heres an impromptu (And possibly slightl innacurate) history lesson:</p>

	<p>Or at least I would if Chris Betram had not already done so.</p>

	<p>So Ted, when did the word British come into use?</p>

	<p>Note also that many people in Enlightenment Edinburgh were calling themselves North Britons, back in the 18th century.</p>

	<p>And which illegal war was Scotland occupied in?  You do know that large numbers of Scotsmen fought on Cumberlands side at Culloden?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155268</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 17:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155268</guid>
		<description>So British = English according to you then Ted?? I noticed by the way that you also posted a comment identical to your first on other blogs (so it wasn&#039;t really an attempt to contribute to the discussion here (or there).

FWIW: Great Britain/British = England + Scotland + Wales and came into being when King James VI of Scotland became King James I of England.

United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland.

So Scots are British but Ulstermen are not (much to the chagrin of many of them).

Whether any of us (English, Welsh or Scots) actually like being British or strongly identify as such is another matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So British = English according to you then Ted?? I noticed by the way that you also posted a comment identical to your first on other blogs (so it wasn&#8217;t really an attempt to contribute to the discussion here (or there).</p>

	<p><span class="caps">FWIW</span>: Great Britain/British = England + Scotland + Wales and came into being when King James VI of Scotland became King James I of England.</p>

	<p>United Kingdom = Great Britain + Northern Ireland.</p>

	<p>So Scots are British but Ulstermen are not (much to the chagrin of many of them).</p>

	<p>Whether any of us (English, Welsh or Scots) actually like being British or strongly identify as such is another matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155265</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 16:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155265</guid>
		<description>Matt D.:

&quot;Scotland is part of Britain.&quot;

No. 

Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.  

The British occupied it in an illegal war.  

I think calling a Scotsperson a britisher is a very rude insult.

It was forcably taken by arms the same way the brits stole Wales, Northern Ireland, the Malvinas, Diego Garcia and Gibralter and many other places they had to give up.  Think Hong Kong.

So when will those fascist limey hooligans give these stolen lands back to their rightful owners?  Not very sporting of the lobster backs is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Matt D.:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Scotland is part of Britain.&#8221;</p>

	<p>No.</p>

	<p>Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.</p>

	<p>The British occupied it in an illegal war.</p>

	<p>I think calling a Scotsperson a britisher is a very rude insult.</p>

	<p>It was forcably taken by arms the same way the brits stole Wales, Northern Ireland, the Malvinas, Diego Garcia and Gibralter and many other places they had to give up.  Think Hong Kong.</p>

	<p>So when will those fascist limey hooligans give these stolen lands back to their rightful owners?  Not very sporting of the lobster backs is it?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155208</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 09:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155208</guid>
		<description>He made a deal with Al Sadr in February/March. The deal full of various populist items - geting rid of the US/British foreign fighers right on the top of the list, of course. And immediately he became unacceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>He made a deal with Al Sadr in February/March. The deal full of various populist items &#8211; geting rid of the US/British foreign fighers right on the top of the list, of course. And immediately he became unacceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155187</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 04:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155187</guid>
		<description>John&#039;s right, Trotsky.  It might have something to with the fact that Jaafari was elected on a platform of demanding immediate American withdrawal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John&#8217;s right, Trotsky.  It might have something to with the fact that Jaafari was elected on a platform of demanding immediate American withdrawal.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155181</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 02:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155181</guid>
		<description>Trotsky, of course a lot of other Iraqi politicians couldn&#039;t abide Jaafari, but they were in the minority. The US was on the anti-Jaafari side from very early on, and helped to create the deadlock, which they then demanded be broken. Here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.juancole.com/2006/03/kurds-sunnis-attempting-to-dump.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Juan Cole&lt;/a&gt; back at the beginning of March.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Trotsky, of course a lot of other Iraqi politicians couldn&#8217;t abide Jaafari, but they were in the minority. The US was on the anti-Jaafari side from very early on, and helped to create the deadlock, which they then demanded be broken. Here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.juancole.com/2006/03/kurds-sunnis-attempting-to-dump.html" rel="nofollow">Juan Cole</a> back at the beginning of March.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155178</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 01:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155178</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That he still has a job at the Telegraph, tells you something about their priorities.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, if you believe Private Eye, he recently got sacked by the Torygraph and then reinstated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That he still has a job at the Telegraph, tells you something about their priorities.</i></p>

	<p>Actually, if you believe Private Eye, he recently got sacked by the Torygraph and then reinstated.</p>
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		<title>By: trotsky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155169</link>
		<dc:creator>trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 May 2006 00:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155169</guid>
		<description>John Quiggin, 

Perhaps I&#039;ve been duped by intel-agency-relay journalists, but I understand that other Iraqi politicians couldn&#039;t abide Jafari, and after months of political deadlock the U.S. Embassy lent its weight to suggestions that he should step aside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Quiggin,</p>

	<p>Perhaps I&#8217;ve been duped by intel-agency-relay journalists, but I understand that other Iraqi politicians couldn&#8217;t abide Jafari, and after months of political deadlock the U.S. Embassy lent its weight to suggestions that he should step aside.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155098</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 17:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155098</guid>
		<description>Every pro-war book or opinion article or piece of journalism is a variant of White Man’s Burden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Every pro-war book or opinion article or piece of journalism is a variant of White Man&#8217;s Burden.</p>
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		<title>By: luci</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155096</link>
		<dc:creator>luci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 17:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155096</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s up with the timing of this reconsideration of the prospects for success in the war?

So, a British helicpoter crashes and kills 5, while locals express sentiments &quot;less than grateful&quot;, and this is a cause for soul searching about the mission?

While the US and British initiated a war based on lies, obvious even at the time, the Iraqis face chaos, insecurity and fear, daily, the sorrow of the relatives of the approximately 100,000 EXTRA dead people, and the roughly 50/50 probability that the death rate will drop below &quot;Saddam levels&quot; even ten years from now?....not as much?

It&#039;s like burning a village to save it, while in the process stubbing your toe, so THEN deciding that the mission might not be worth it, and the locals are to blame (those ungrateful wogs might not deserve our help!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What&#8217;s up with the timing of this reconsideration of the prospects for success in the war?</p>

	<p>So, a British helicpoter crashes and kills 5, while locals express sentiments &#8220;less than grateful&#8221;, and this is a cause for soul searching about the mission?</p>

	<p>While the US and British initiated a war based on lies, obvious even at the time, the Iraqis face chaos, insecurity and fear, daily, the sorrow of the relatives of the approximately 100,000 <span class="caps">EXTRA</span> dead people, and the roughly 50/50 probability that the death rate will drop below &#8220;Saddam levels&#8221; even ten years from now?&#8230;.not as much?</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s like burning a village to save it, while in the process stubbing your toe, so <span class="caps">THEN</span> deciding that the mission might not be worth it, and the locals are to blame (those ungrateful wogs might not deserve our help!).</p>
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		<title>By: Matt D</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155093</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 17:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155093</guid>
		<description>Um, Ted? 
Scotland is part of Britain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Um, Ted?<br />
Scotland is part of Britain.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/comment-page-1/#comment-155091</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 16:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/09/cutting-and-running/#comment-155091</guid>
		<description>I think you guys miss the impact that Barnett&#039;s books Pentagon&#039;s New Map and Blueprint For Action have on the neoconservative universe. Two of the loudest supporters of the philosophy espoused in these books are Rice and Rumsfeld.  These 2 books make an interesting (and I can see how the imagery can overwhelm some people) argument for invading pretty much every country that isn&#039;t part of the &lt;em&gt;Functional Core&lt;/em&gt; (usually just called &lt;em&gt;Core&lt;/em&gt;). The other countries, not fully integrated into the global economy are called the &lt;em&gt;Non Integrated Gap&lt;/em&gt; (usually called &lt;em&gt;Gap&lt;/em&gt;, but since the NIG are all dark skinned, I can also imagine a 6-letter word that starts with NIG that will be on the mind of the audience for his seminars and books).

I liken the philosophy in PNM and BPA as the &lt;em&gt;New White Man&#039;s Burden&lt;/em&gt;. And we&#039;ll spread globalism at gunpoint, as necessary. Barnett claims that one every country in the gap has been brought into the core, then terrorism will wither away (hmm, where have I heard that &quot;wither away&quot; argument before? Fukuyama? Marx? Or was it Hegel?) and be a nuisance like organized crime, instead of a major threat.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;A cynic might suggest that the United States can’t even do this in New Orleans much less in foreign countries. In fact, as the FMFM 1-A, Fourth Generation War, argues strongly, even if an outside force does everything right, the probability of success in such endeavors remains low. Why? As Russell Kirk wrote, there is no surer way of making someone your enemy than to announce you will remake him in your image for his own good. To many of the world’s peoples, what Barnett argues for in such blithe simplicity represents Hell, and they will fight it literally to their dying breath.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.d-n-i.net/lind/lind_1_20_06.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Source&lt;/a&gt;.

And the insurgents in Iraq are fighting it to their dying breath. Just like the &quot;insurgents&quot; in Iran will fight it to their dying breath. Have folks forgotten the riots that happen pretty much anytime the WTO happens to have a meeting? If first world people are so opposed to globalization, why should third world people be interested?

And before you poo-poo the notion that Barnett&#039;s books have an influence on the folks in this administration, you might want to read the parts where he drops names and goes on and on and on and on about all those powerpointless presentations he gives. Or his own site where he talks about all the presentations and meetings he has with the folks in power. If you&#039;re left wondering what his &quot;sysadmins&quot; and &quot;development in a box&quot; mean, then you&#039;re not alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think you guys miss the impact that Barnett&#8217;s books Pentagon&#8217;s New Map and Blueprint For Action have on the neoconservative universe. Two of the loudest supporters of the philosophy espoused in these books are Rice and Rumsfeld.  These 2 books make an interesting (and I can see how the imagery can overwhelm some people) argument for invading pretty much every country that isn&#8217;t part of the <em>Functional Core</em> (usually just called <em>Core</em>). The other countries, not fully integrated into the global economy are called the <em>Non Integrated Gap</em> (usually called <em>Gap</em>, but since the <span class="caps">NIG</span> are all dark skinned, I can also imagine a 6-letter word that starts with <span class="caps">NIG</span> that will be on the mind of the audience for his seminars and books).</p>

	<p>I liken the philosophy in <span class="caps">PNM</span> and <span class="caps">BPA</span> as the <em>New White Man&#8217;s Burden</em>. And we&#8217;ll spread globalism at gunpoint, as necessary. Barnett claims that one every country in the gap has been brought into the core, then terrorism will wither away (hmm, where have I heard that &#8220;wither away&#8221; argument before? Fukuyama? Marx? Or was it Hegel?) and be a nuisance like organized crime, instead of a major threat.</p>

	<p><blockquote><em>A cynic might suggest that the United States can&#8217;t even do this in New Orleans much less in foreign countries. In fact, as the <span class="caps">FMFM 1</span>-A, Fourth Generation War, argues strongly, even if an outside force does everything right, the probability of success in such endeavors remains low. Why? As Russell Kirk wrote, there is no surer way of making someone your enemy than to announce you will remake him in your image for his own good. To many of the world&#8217;s peoples, what Barnett argues for in such blithe simplicity represents Hell, and they will fight it literally to their dying breath.</em></blockquote><br />
<a href="http://www.d-n-i.net/lind/lind_1_20_06.htm" rel="nofollow">Source</a>.</p>

	<p>And the insurgents in Iraq are fighting it to their dying breath. Just like the &#8220;insurgents&#8221; in Iran will fight it to their dying breath. Have folks forgotten the riots that happen pretty much anytime the <span class="caps">WTO</span> happens to have a meeting? If first world people are so opposed to globalization, why should third world people be interested?</p>

	<p>And before you poo-poo the notion that Barnett&#8217;s books have an influence on the folks in this administration, you might want to read the parts where he drops names and goes on and on and on and on about all those powerpointless presentations he gives. Or his own site where he talks about all the presentations and meetings he has with the folks in power. If you&#8217;re left wondering what his &#8220;sysadmins&#8221; and &#8220;development in a box&#8221; mean, then you&#8217;re not alone.</p>
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