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	<title>Comments on: Becker and Murphy on advertising</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Kip</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155848</link>
		<dc:creator>Kip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 19:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155848</guid>
		<description>From what I can gather, the conversation wasn&#039;t started to decide whether or not advertising is &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad&quot; but what effect advertising has, if any, on the free-market economic ideas that Galbraith criticized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>From what I can gather, the conversation wasn&#8217;t started to decide whether or not advertising is &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad&#8221; but what effect advertising has, if any, on the free-market economic ideas that Galbraith criticized.</p>
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		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155822</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 17:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155822</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Having studied economics AND worked in marketing (not a common conjunction)&lt;/i&gt;

Not &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; uncommon, since I too have done both . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Having studied economics <span class="caps">AND</span> worked in marketing (not a common conjunction)</i></p>

	<p>Not <i>that</i> uncommon, since I too have done both . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Ajax</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155803</link>
		<dc:creator>Ajax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 17:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155803</guid>
		<description>Having studied economics AND worked in marketing (not a common conjunction), I think a key problem with economists&#039; models of advertising is their impoverishment compared to reality.  For instance, many more goods than most economists seem to realize are network goods -- ie, goods where the (expected perceived) utility received by one consumer of the good depends on the (expected perceived) utility of other consumers of that good. 

The example usually cited by economic theorists are products like fax machines or PC operating systems:  an owner of a fax machine gets no value from it if no-one else has one.  But almost every product or service has a network component, since, being social animals, almost all our consumption is social.   It is rare, for example, for people to wear clothes which are completely different to those of their peers -- in many years in business, I&#039;ve never seen 16th-century Elizabethan court dress worn in a corporate environment.  Why is this?  Because part of the personal utility we each gain from the clothes we wear depends on what others think of those clothes, and hence of our individual choices. 

When goods have a network aspect, one essential function of advertising is to help consumers co-ordinate their choices, ie, to allow us to assess what our peers (or people we would like to be peers) are likely to think of some product or service before we make our own individual, separate choices.  This function of advertising is more than the mere provision of information, since it concerns actions and likely actions of multiple individual entities.  Nor is it usually trivial to engineer.   It also means that advertisers can rarely, if ever, manipulate consumer choices against their will. (If Galbraith were right on this point, there would be much more money and far fewer ulcers in the advertising industry.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Having studied economics <span class="caps">AND</span> worked in marketing (not a common conjunction), I think a key problem with economists&#8217; models of advertising is their impoverishment compared to reality.  For instance, many more goods than most economists seem to realize are network goods&#8212;ie, goods where the (expected perceived) utility received by one consumer of the good depends on the (expected perceived) utility of other consumers of that good.</p>

	<p>The example usually cited by economic theorists are products like fax machines or PC operating systems:  an owner of a fax machine gets no value from it if no-one else has one.  But almost every product or service has a network component, since, being social animals, almost all our consumption is social.   It is rare, for example, for people to wear clothes which are completely different to those of their peers&#8212;in many years in business, I&#8217;ve never seen 16th-century Elizabethan court dress worn in a corporate environment.  Why is this?  Because part of the personal utility we each gain from the clothes we wear depends on what others think of those clothes, and hence of our individual choices.</p>

	<p>When goods have a network aspect, one essential function of advertising is to help consumers co-ordinate their choices, ie, to allow us to assess what our peers (or people we would like to be peers) are likely to think of some product or service before we make our own individual, separate choices.  This function of advertising is more than the mere provision of information, since it concerns actions and likely actions of multiple individual entities.  Nor is it usually trivial to engineer.   It also means that advertisers can rarely, if ever, manipulate consumer choices against their will. (If Galbraith were right on this point, there would be much more money and far fewer ulcers in the advertising industry.)</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155758</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 May 2006 07:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155758</guid>
		<description>Neel, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.managementhelp.org/ad_prmot/defntion.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, I found some definitions. Giving away software is a marketing activity;  advertisement is &lt;i&gt;different&lt;/i&gt; marketing activity. 
&lt;blockquote&gt; 
It&#039;s easy to become confused about these terms: advertising, marketing, promotion, public relations and publicity, and sales. The terms are often used interchangeably. However, they refer to different -- but similar activities. Some basic definitions are provided below. A short example is also provided hopefully to help make the terms more clear to the reader.

One Definition of Advertising
Advertising is bringing a product (or service) to the attention of potential and current customers. Advertising is typically done with signs, brochures, commercials, direct mailings or e-mail messages, personal contact, etc.

One Definition of Promotion
Promotion keeps the product in the minds of the customer and helps stimulate demand for the product. Promotion involves ongoing advertising and publicity (mention in the press). The ongoing activities of advertising, sales and public relations are often considered aspects of promotions.

One Definition of Marketing

Marketing is the wide range of activities involved in making sure that you&#039;re continuing to meet the needs of your customers and getting value in return. These activities include market research to find out, for example, what groups of potential customers exist, what their needs are, which of those needs you can meet, how you should meet them, etc. Marketing also includes analyzing the competition, positioning your new product or service (finding your market niche), pricing your products and services, and promoting them through continued advertising, promotions, public relations and sales.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Neel, <a href="http://www.managementhelp.org/ad_prmot/defntion.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>, I found some definitions. Giving away software is a marketing activity;  advertisement is <i>different</i> marketing activity.<br />
<blockquote><br />
It&#8217;s easy to become confused about these terms: advertising, marketing, promotion, public relations and publicity, and sales. The terms are often used interchangeably. However, they refer to different&#8212;but similar activities. Some basic definitions are provided below. A short example is also provided hopefully to help make the terms more clear to the reader.</blockquote></p>

	<p>One Definition of Advertising<br />
Advertising is bringing a product (or service) to the attention of potential and current customers. Advertising is typically done with signs, brochures, commercials, direct mailings or e-mail messages, personal contact, etc.</p>

	<p>One Definition of Promotion<br />
Promotion keeps the product in the minds of the customer and helps stimulate demand for the product. Promotion involves ongoing advertising and publicity (mention in the press). The ongoing activities of advertising, sales and public relations are often considered aspects of promotions.</p>

	<p>One Definition of Marketing</p>

	<p>Marketing is the wide range of activities involved in making sure that you&#8217;re continuing to meet the needs of your customers and getting value in return. These activities include market research to find out, for example, what groups of potential customers exist, what their needs are, which of those needs you can meet, how you should meet them, etc. Marketing also includes analyzing the competition, positioning your new product or service (finding your market niche), pricing your products and services, and promoting them through continued advertising, promotions, public relations and sales.<br />
</p>
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		<title>By: r4d20</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155696</link>
		<dc:creator>r4d20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 22:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155696</guid>
		<description>&quot;Think about it- you buy a product you don’t want, because someone more informed than yourself has told you to.&quot;

People believe in God simply because they were raised too - you think that gives you a right to reprogram them or stop them from raising their children the same way?

It is not your job to protect people from their own weak minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Think about it- you buy a product you don&#8217;t want, because someone more informed than yourself has told you to.&#8221;</p>

	<p>People believe in God simply because they were raised too &#8211; you think that gives you a right to reprogram them or stop them from raising their children the same way?</p>

	<p>It is not your job to protect people from their own weak minds.</p>
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		<title>By: Neel Krishnaswami</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155680</link>
		<dc:creator>Neel Krishnaswami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 20:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155680</guid>
		<description>John, I think you&#039;re right -- though I am certainly surprised by that fact. Maybe I&#039;ve spent too long in software, where it&#039;s easy and common to give away useful software as a promotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John, I think you&#8217;re right&#8212;though I am certainly surprised by that fact. Maybe I&#8217;ve spent too long in software, where it&#8217;s easy and common to give away useful software as a promotion.</p>
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		<title>By: joejoejoe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155624</link>
		<dc:creator>joejoejoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 13:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155624</guid>
		<description>The most famous billboards I know of are the &#039;South of the Border&#039; signs on Interstate 95 as you drive south on the Atlantic seaboard in the US. There are 200+ &#039;South of the Border&#039; billboards strung out over hundreds of miles aimed mostly at tourists driving south to Florida. &#039;Pedro&#039; is the mascot of &#039;South of the Border&#039;, a collection of cheesy shops, restaurants, fireworks shops, souvenir stores, and the &quot;magnificent Sombrero - Eiffel Tower of the South&quot;. In 1993 the Mexican Embassy asked that the mocking broken English of the billboards be removed. A few examples:

NO MONKEY BUSINESS Joost Yankee Panky! South of the Border
&lt;i&gt;(upside down sign)&lt;/i&gt; Too Moch Tequila? South of the Border

These billboards had value when I was a kid as they distracted me from thinking &quot;Are we there yet?&quot; as we trekked to Florida from Connecticut in the family station wagon. But &#039;South of the Border&#039; is filled with crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The most famous billboards I know of are the &#8216;South of the Border&#8217; signs on Interstate 95 as you drive south on the Atlantic seaboard in the US. There are 200+ &#8216;South of the Border&#8217; billboards strung out over hundreds of miles aimed mostly at tourists driving south to Florida. &#8216;Pedro&#8217; is the mascot of &#8216;South of the Border&#8217;, a collection of cheesy shops, restaurants, fireworks shops, souvenir stores, and the &#8220;magnificent Sombrero &#8211; Eiffel Tower of the South&#8221;. In 1993 the Mexican Embassy asked that the mocking broken English of the billboards be removed. A few examples:</p>

	<p><span class="caps">NO MONKEY BUSINESS </span>Joost Yankee Panky! South of the Border<br />
<i>(upside down sign)</i> Too Moch Tequila? South of the Border</p>

	<p>These billboards had value when I was a kid as they distracted me from thinking &#8220;Are we there yet?&#8221; as we trekked to Florida from Connecticut in the family station wagon. But &#8216;South of the Border&#8217; is filled with crap.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-2/#comment-155609</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 09:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155609</guid>
		<description>This is absurd. If we don&#039;t have the definition of &quot;ad&quot; and don&#039;t agree on what consititutes an &quot;ad&quot; and what doesn&#039;t not, then there&#039;s no way to have a main point here or any point at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is absurd. If we don&#8217;t have the definition of &#8220;ad&#8221; and don&#8217;t agree on what consititutes an &#8220;ad&#8221; and what doesn&#8217;t not, then there&#8217;s no way to have a main point here or any point at all.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155606</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 08:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155606</guid>
		<description>Neel, I think you&#039;re reinforcing my main point. The things we usually think of as ads are mostly bad; there are goods that fit the model, but aren&#039;t what we think of as ads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Neel, I think you&#8217;re reinforcing my main point. The things we usually think of as ads are mostly bad; there are goods that fit the model, but aren&#8217;t what we think of as ads.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155605</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 08:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155605</guid>
		<description>A review by independent critic is a form of advertisement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A review by independent critic is a form of advertisement?</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155590</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 03:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155590</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In their model, an advertisement is any product that is a complement to another product. A good is a complement to another one if demand for it rises with demand for the other—think of hot dogs and buns; the demand for buns rises with the demand for hot dogs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, Neel, according to you a bun is an &quot;advert&quot; for a hot dog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>In their model, an advertisement is any product that is a complement to another product. A good is a complement to another one if demand for it rises with demand for the other&#8212;think of hot dogs and buns; the demand for buns rises with the demand for hot dogs.</blockquote></p>

	<p>So, Neel, according to you a bun is an &#8220;advert&#8221; for a hot dog?</p>
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		<title>By: Neel Krishnaswami</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155587</link>
		<dc:creator>Neel Krishnaswami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 03:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155587</guid>
		<description>Setting aside Galbraith, whose analysis I can&#039;t speak with confidence about, that&#039;s definitely not the case for the Becker-Murphy analysis. 

In their model, an advertisement is any product that is a complement to another product. A good is a complement to another one if demand for it rises with demand for the other -- think of hot dogs and buns; the demand for buns rises with the demand for hot dogs.

The innovation in the Becker-Murphy analysis is that they recognized that a bad -- a product you must be paid to consume -- can be a complement to a good. So consuming TV ads can increase your demand for a product. But because the TV ads are bads, they have to be bundled with something you do value (eg, TV programs) in order to persuade you to consume them. 

However, this does not preclude the existence of advertisements that are intrinsically valuable. Film studios certainly treat screenings for critics as part of their advertising campaigns, but I think it&#039;s reasonable to think of movie reviews as valuable advertising. (My life would be poorer without Pauline Kael&#039;s essays, or even Roger Ebert, for example.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Setting aside Galbraith, whose analysis I can&#8217;t speak with confidence about, that&#8217;s definitely not the case for the Becker-Murphy analysis.</p>

	<p>In their model, an advertisement is any product that is a complement to another product. A good is a complement to another one if demand for it rises with demand for the other&#8212;think of hot dogs and buns; the demand for buns rises with the demand for hot dogs.</p>

	<p>The innovation in the Becker-Murphy analysis is that they recognized that a bad&#8212;a product you must be paid to consume&#8212;can be a complement to a good. So consuming TV ads can increase your demand for a product. But because the TV ads are bads, they have to be bundled with something you do value (eg, TV programs) in order to persuade you to consume them.</p>

	<p>However, this does not preclude the existence of advertisements that are intrinsically valuable. Film studios certainly treat screenings for critics as part of their advertising campaigns, but I think it&#8217;s reasonable to think of movie reviews as valuable advertising. (My life would be poorer without Pauline Kael&#8217;s essays, or even Roger Ebert, for example.)</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155585</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 May 2006 02:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155585</guid>
		<description>Neel, that seems to me an illicit extension of the concept advertisment. I would take it that Galbraith and Becker would exclude those recommendations and pronouncements that weren&#039;t paid for. Otherwise, the whole issue becomes a conceptual swamp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Neel, that seems to me an illicit extension of the concept advertisment. I would take it that Galbraith and Becker would exclude those recommendations and pronouncements that weren&#8217;t paid for. Otherwise, the whole issue becomes a conceptual swamp.</p>
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		<title>By: Neel Krishnaswami</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155577</link>
		<dc:creator>Neel Krishnaswami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 23:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155577</guid>
		<description>abb1: two examples of desirable forms of advertising are the sports pages of your newspaper and movie reviews. Both are valuable enough (at least with good sportswriters and movie critics) that people will seek them out and pay for the privilege of reading them. And yet they are also advertisements for pro sports leagues and the movies of film studios.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1: two examples of desirable forms of advertising are the sports pages of your newspaper and movie reviews. Both are valuable enough (at least with good sportswriters and movie critics) that people will seek them out and pay for the privilege of reading them. And yet they are also advertisements for pro sports leagues and the movies of film studios.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Johnson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/comment-page-1/#comment-155561</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 May 2006 18:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/12/becker-and-murphy-on-advertising/#comment-155561</guid>
		<description>Samchevre--

That&#039;s not how I remember I-40, but it&#039;s been several years since I drove on it.  I remember being able to see quite  a bit of scenery--you need a lot of trees to block out hills, you know.  But maybe you&#039;re remembering stretches that I don&#039;t recall-- it&#039;s been a number of years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Samchevre&#8212;<br />
That&#8217;s not how I remember I-40, but it&#8217;s been several years since I drove on it.  I remember being able to see quite  a bit of scenery&#8212;you need a lot of trees to block out hills, you know.  But maybe you&#8217;re remembering stretches that I don&#8217;t recall&#8212;it&#8217;s been a number of years.</p>
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