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	<title>Comments on: Secret Ballots</title>
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	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156205</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 05:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156205</guid>
		<description>The idea of secret voting would not suffice the motive behind it.Most of the people don&#039;t think it would be likely to vote through proxy.
There are better ways to vote!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The idea of secret voting would not suffice the motive behind it.Most of the people don&#8217;t think it would be likely to vote through proxy.<br />
There are better ways to vote!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156193</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 02:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156193</guid>
		<description>While the secret ballot was originally conceived “not......as a right, but as a mechanism against coercion (in the U.K.) and bribery (in the U.S.)” its status has changed. That elections must be by secret ballot is provided in many international human rights agreements, certainly all that deal with elections. The vast majority of states a parties to at least one such treaty, most a parties to several.



Administration and Cost of Elections Project/  Media and Elections        

http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/me/mea01.htm

International Law

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the UN in 1948 is the definitive statement of principle on human rights.  ...  Article 21, guarantees the right to take part in periodic  &lt;b&gt;secret [ballot]elections&lt;/b&gt;

The UDHR imposes obligations upon all members of the international community. But, as a declaration, it is only what is termed customary international law. With the adoption of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1966, these same provisions were amplified and given the force of binding and enforceable law over all those states that ratified....Article 25 of the ICCPR states in part: 


Every citizen shall have the right and the opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in Article 2 [distinctions of any kind such as race, colour, sex, language, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status] and without unreasonable restrictions: 

...(b) To vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by  &lt;b&gt;secret ballot&lt;/b&gt;, guaranteeing the free expression of the will of the electors.


[...]

The main regional human rights treaties - the European Convention on Human Rights, the American Convention on Human Rights and the African Charter on Human and Peoples&#039; Rights - contain a similar combination of guarantees of the right to freedom of expression and information and the right to political participation without discrimination. [All have boilerplate secret ballot election provisions essentially the same as UDHR and ICCPR]
-----------

There are many more examples. The nations of the world seem to approach unanimous consensus on this point.  I don’t know why things developed as they did. 

m. townes:

I read your excellent article. You seem to know your way around election history. What do you make of this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>While the secret ballot was originally conceived &#8220;not&#8230;&#8230;as a right, but as a mechanism against coercion (in the U.K.) and bribery (in the U.S.)&#8221; its status has changed. That elections must be by secret ballot is provided in many international human rights agreements, certainly all that deal with elections. The vast majority of states a parties to at least one such treaty, most a parties to several.</p>



	<p>Administration and Cost of Elections Project/  Media and Elections</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/me/mea01.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/me/mea01.htm</a></p>

	<p>International Law</p>

	<p>The Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted by the UN in 1948 is the definitive statement of principle on human rights.  &#8230;  Article 21, guarantees the right to take part in periodic  <b>secret [ballot]elections</b></p>

	<p>The <span class="caps">UDHR</span> imposes obligations upon all members of the international community. But, as a declaration, it is only what is termed customary international law. With the adoption of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1966, these same provisions were amplified and given the force of binding and enforceable law over all those states that ratified&#8230;.Article 25 of the <span class="caps">ICCPR</span> states in part:</p>


	<p>Every citizen shall have the right and the opportunity, without any of the distinctions mentioned in Article 2 [distinctions of any kind such as race, colour, sex, language, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status] and without unreasonable restrictions:</p>

	<p>&#8230;(b) To vote and to be elected at genuine periodic elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by  <b>secret ballot</b>, guaranteeing the free expression of the will of the electors.</p>


	<p>[...]</p>

	<p>The main regional human rights treaties &#8211; the European Convention on Human Rights, the American Convention on Human Rights and the African Charter on Human and Peoples&#8217; Rights &#8211; contain a similar combination of guarantees of the right to freedom of expression and information and the right to political participation without discrimination. [All have boilerplate secret ballot election provisions essentially the same as <span class="caps">UDHR</span> and <span class="caps">ICCPR</span>]&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>

	<p>There are many more examples. The nations of the world seem to approach unanimous consensus on this point.  I don&#8217;t know why things developed as they did.</p>

	<p>m. townes:</p>

	<p>I read your excellent article. You seem to know your way around election history. What do you make of this?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Otsuka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156154</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Otsuka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 19:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156154</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;not many people think of electing a government as a form of coercion by proxy&lt;/i&gt;

The &#039;not in my name&#039; anti-Iraq-war slogan in Britain suggests that, in at least some contexts, many people do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>not many people think of electing a government as a form of coercion by proxy</i></p>

	<p>The &#8216;not in my name&#8217; anti-Iraq-war slogan in Britain suggests that, in at least some contexts, many people do.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156138</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 16:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156138</guid>
		<description>chris; at the time I voted Labour as a lesser evil. I&#039;m sure if I re-read the manifesto now I&#039;d support more of it than I did then, though, having mellowed....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>chris; at the time I voted Labour as a lesser evil. I&#8217;m sure if I re-read the manifesto now I&#8217;d support more of it than I did then, though, having mellowed&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Ball</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156135</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 16:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156135</guid>
		<description>Re #55, &lt;blockquote&gt;
I can’t understand how anyone could argue that voting is not about coercion. Virtually everything in politicis is about coercion, monopoly on violence; governing is a form of coercion
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The aggregation of individuals acts of voting determines who controls the coercive apparatus of the state but it seems a stretch to say that the act of voting is in and of itself a coercive act and therefore requires justification. Consider it another way: to receive any form of government aid required the coercive act of revenue gathering by the government, therefore aid recipients are engaging in coercive acts indirectly  and so they have a duty to explain why they are receiving aid (not a duty to qualify per regulations but have the fact of their recipient status made public in order to enable other citizens to have them justify their receipt of aid). To me the distance between immediate coercion and voting or aid receipt is too far to compel justification.

While we may get into semantics over what is politics v. say civic or public action, much in politics is persuasive rather than coercive and even at the organizational level, voluntary rather than compulsory mechanisms can be put into place to govern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re #55, <blockquote><br />
I can&#8217;t understand how anyone could argue that voting is not about coercion. Virtually everything in politicis is about coercion, monopoly on violence; governing is a form of coercion<br />
</blockquote><br />
The aggregation of individuals acts of voting determines who controls the coercive apparatus of the state but it seems a stretch to say that the act of voting is in and of itself a coercive act and therefore requires justification. Consider it another way: to receive any form of government aid required the coercive act of revenue gathering by the government, therefore aid recipients are engaging in coercive acts indirectly  and so they have a duty to explain why they are receiving aid (not a duty to qualify per regulations but have the fact of their recipient status made public in order to enable other citizens to have them justify their receipt of aid). To me the distance between immediate coercion and voting or aid receipt is too far to compel justification.</p>

	<p>While we may get into semantics over what is politics v. say civic or public action, much in politics is persuasive rather than coercive and even at the organizational level, voluntary rather than compulsory mechanisms can be put into place to govern.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156134</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 15:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156134</guid>
		<description>Very very interesting post.  Especially as not many people think of electing a government as a form of coercion by proxy.

Though may I ask, given your voting record, whether you still wish to see the Labour manifesto of 1983 implemented?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Very very interesting post.  Especially as not many people think of electing a government as a form of coercion by proxy.</p>

	<p>Though may I ask, given your voting record, whether you still wish to see the Labour manifesto of 1983 implemented?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156117</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 07:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156117</guid>
		<description>And I think Nixon&#039;s 1972 election with his &#039;great silent majority&#039; is a case in point here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And I think Nixon&#8217;s 1972 election with his &#8216;great silent majority&#8217; is a case in point here.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156115</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 07:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156115</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t understand how anyone could argue that voting is not about coercion. Virtually everything in politicis is about coercion, monopoly on violence; governing is a form of coercion. It&#039;s often obscured by rhetoric but the fact remains. 

I don&#039;t think you necessarily owe me an explanation why you voted this way or another, other than the obvious &quot;I find candidate (or party) A more appealing, more in line with my worldview&quot;; nevertheless, I think you could make a good case against secret ballot in a &quot;well-ordered society&quot;.

Here&#039;s what Wiki says:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
One response to the issue of political privacy as such is that any political privacy outside the expression of voting is inappropriate. Bernard Crick, for instance, a notable advocate of politics as the necessarily-public form of ethics, defined politics itself as &quot;resolution of moral conflict, or ethics, in public&quot;. From this point of view, one may have no right to political privacy, and even such measures as a secret ballot may be denied based on the grounds that political differences between neighbors or friends must be open, in order to avoid over-empowering some central authority.

Fear of such a central authority, that argument goes, is the problem, and knowing there is no political privacy, people become maximally motivated to ensure that the central authority has no arbitrary power. Junius said that &quot;the subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures.&quot; Knowing that such measures might be directed against oneself may be the strongest possible motivation to avoid advising them against others.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I can&#8217;t understand how anyone could argue that voting is not about coercion. Virtually everything in politicis is about coercion, monopoly on violence; governing is a form of coercion. It&#8217;s often obscured by rhetoric but the fact remains.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t think you necessarily owe me an explanation why you voted this way or another, other than the obvious &#8220;I find candidate (or party) A more appealing, more in line with my worldview&#8221;; nevertheless, I think you could make a good case against secret ballot in a &#8220;well-ordered society&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Here&#8217;s what Wiki says:<br />
<blockquote><br />
One response to the issue of political privacy as such is that any political privacy outside the expression of voting is inappropriate. Bernard Crick, for instance, a notable advocate of politics as the necessarily-public form of ethics, defined politics itself as &#8220;resolution of moral conflict, or ethics, in public&#8221;. From this point of view, one may have no right to political privacy, and even such measures as a secret ballot may be denied based on the grounds that political differences between neighbors or friends must be open, in order to avoid over-empowering some central authority.</blockquote></p>

	<p>Fear of such a central authority, that argument goes, is the problem, and knowing there is no political privacy, people become maximally motivated to ensure that the central authority has no arbitrary power. Junius said that &#8220;the subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures.&#8221; Knowing that such measures might be directed against oneself may be the strongest possible motivation to avoid advising them against others.<br />
</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156092</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 21:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156092</guid>
		<description>Also, what the hell? You can&#039;t find out how members of Congress voted?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, what the hell? You can&#8217;t find out how members of Congress voted?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156090</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 21:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156090</guid>
		<description>#51,

I think Michael Otsuka may have a fairly conclusive reply to the argument Harry presented, but #44 is obviously wrong because of what #45 says. Legislators aren&#039;t pure delegates, and even if they were, they would still have publicly expressed views on a large number of issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#51,</p>

	<p>I think Michael Otsuka may have a fairly conclusive reply to the argument Harry presented, but #44 is obviously wrong because of what #45 says. Legislators aren&#8217;t pure delegates, and even if they were, they would still have publicly expressed views on a large number of issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Doyle</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156083</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Doyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 18:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156083</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;   &lt;b&gt; Upon this point a page of history is worth a volume of logic.  &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;   

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, &lt;a href=&quot;http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?&amp;navby=CASE&amp;court=US&amp;vol=256&amp;page=345/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New York Trust Co. v. Eisner, 256 U.S. 345 (1921) &lt;/a&gt;


Harry:

Your post raises interesting questions related to the secret ballot, most of which had never occurred to me.  I checked at what I have found to be an excellent resource on voting and elections, the Administration and Conduct of Elections web, which offers a huge amount  of information on election theory and practice around the world. The following summarizes the history, purpose, and present status of the secret ballot:


History of Corruption and Its Regulation 

Today, universal suffrage has been achieved in most parts of the world. The election process has evolved from elections by a handful of privileged elite men to one where leaders are chosen based on a system of one-person-one-vote. The elite&#039;s control over the government has weakened as the world has moved toward democracy by the expansion of suffrage, increased public political participation, and more competitive elections. Since some elites could not survive the competitive elections, they have turned to using election fraud as a means to decrease the degree of competition and sustain their power. This fraud can include bribery, undue influence, ballot stuffing, physical intimidation, and dissemination of false information. As methods and the degree of fraud grew, governments found it necessary to regulate fraud and maintain elections free and fair. Governments had various reasons to hold free and fair elections, for instance, to gain national or international respect and legitimacy.38 

 &lt;b&gt;Significant attempts to regulate electoral fraud emerged in the late 19th century. France introduced the concept of the secret ballot in 1789; however, Australia was the first country to actually employ it in the late 1850s.39 40 The purpose of the secret ballot was to discourage bribery and intimidation. It was intended to reduce the likelihood that others would know for whom the bribed and/or intimidated citizen had voted. The United Kingdom adopted the secret ballot in 1872, and most countries in Western Europe followed in the late 19th century.41 &lt;/b&gt;



http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/ei/ei60.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>   <b> Upon this point a page of history is worth a volume of logic.  </b></i></p>

	<p>Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?&#038;navby=CASE&#038;court=US&#038;vol=256&#038;page=345/" rel="nofollow">New York Trust Co. v. Eisner, 256 U.S. 345 (1921) </a></p>


	<p>Harry:</p>

	<p>Your post raises interesting questions related to the secret ballot, most of which had never occurred to me.  I checked at what I have found to be an excellent resource on voting and elections, the Administration and Conduct of Elections web, which offers a huge amount  of information on election theory and practice around the world. The following summarizes the history, purpose, and present status of the secret ballot:</p>


	<p>History of Corruption and Its Regulation</p>

	<p>Today, universal suffrage has been achieved in most parts of the world. The election process has evolved from elections by a handful of privileged elite men to one where leaders are chosen based on a system of one-person-one-vote. The elite&#8217;s control over the government has weakened as the world has moved toward democracy by the expansion of suffrage, increased public political participation, and more competitive elections. Since some elites could not survive the competitive elections, they have turned to using election fraud as a means to decrease the degree of competition and sustain their power. This fraud can include bribery, undue influence, ballot stuffing, physical intimidation, and dissemination of false information. As methods and the degree of fraud grew, governments found it necessary to regulate fraud and maintain elections free and fair. Governments had various reasons to hold free and fair elections, for instance, to gain national or international respect and legitimacy.38</p>

	<p><b>Significant attempts to regulate electoral fraud emerged in the late 19th century. France introduced the concept of the secret ballot in 1789; however, Australia was the first country to actually employ it in the late 1850s.39 40 The purpose of the secret ballot was to discourage bribery and intimidation. It was intended to reduce the likelihood that others would know for whom the bribed and/or intimidated citizen had voted. The United Kingdom adopted the secret ballot in 1872, and most countries in Western Europe followed in the late 19th century.41 </b></p>



	<p><a href="http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/ei/ei60.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/ei/ei60.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Ball</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-2/#comment-156081</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 18:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156081</guid>
		<description>I think #44 is closer to the mark. An individual&#039;s vote is not an immediate coercive act, since it is a vote for a representative who would presumably deliberate with others before making laws, which would coerce others. And #46 gets at the real issue. The more problematic issue is whether publicity of votes would be an effective means to coerce the voter into disclosing his or her reasons. Knowing that I voted for Smith does not tell you &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; I voted for Smith. To be effective, voters would have to be compelled to &lt;i&gt;explain&lt;/i&gt; why they voted as they did. What we are  really debating is not a right to privacy but a duty to explain. 

However, what is interesting is that in the US, there is no obligation for the &lt;i&gt;legislators&lt;/i&gt; to have their votes recorded in most cases. Roll call votes are not mandatory in Congress; voice votes are the norm.  A first step for justified coercion would be to require roll call votes except for unanimous consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think #44 is closer to the mark. An individual&#8217;s vote is not an immediate coercive act, since it is a vote for a representative who would presumably deliberate with others before making laws, which would coerce others. And #46 gets at the real issue. The more problematic issue is whether publicity of votes would be an effective means to coerce the voter into disclosing his or her reasons. Knowing that I voted for Smith does not tell you <i>why</i> I voted for Smith. To be effective, voters would have to be compelled to <i>explain</i> why they voted as they did. What we are  really debating is not a right to privacy but a duty to explain.</p>

	<p>However, what is interesting is that in the US, there is no obligation for the <i>legislators</i> to have their votes recorded in most cases. Roll call votes are not mandatory in Congress; voice votes are the norm.  A first step for justified coercion would be to require roll call votes except for unanimous consent.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-1/#comment-156076</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 17:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156076</guid>
		<description>&gt; A standard view about what is required for 
&gt; coercion to be legitimate is that it must 
&gt; be justifiable to the person who is coerced;

I think the hidden assumption here is that the coercor is the individual voter, rather than the polity as a whole ala Hobbes.  If one takes the latter view, then the requirement to persuade and/or publish one&#039;s vote disappears.

Even if one believes that voters must persude others, there would then be a need to explain why voters cannot choose to use game-theory type tactics of misdirection in their persuasive efforts.

Cranky</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> A standard view about what is required for<br />
> coercion to be legitimate is that it must<br />
> be justifiable to the person who is coerced;</p>

	<p>I think the hidden assumption here is that the coercor is the individual voter, rather than the polity as a whole ala Hobbes.  If one takes the latter view, then the requirement to persuade and/or publish one&#8217;s vote disappears.</p>

	<p>Even if one believes that voters must persude others, there would then be a need to explain why voters cannot choose to use game-theory type tactics of misdirection in their persuasive efforts.</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>
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		<title>By: micah</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-1/#comment-156068</link>
		<dc:creator>micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 16:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156068</guid>
		<description>Paul, I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s possible to dissolve the problem the way you suggest. A may think B has reasonable grounds for supporting P (at least from within B&#039;s perspective), but A might think those grounds are defective, or perhaps just not the best (or most reasonable) justification for P. If she were candid, A might say: &quot;Look B, given what you believe, you&#039;re committed to P. I don&#039;t happen to agree with what you believe. In fact, I think your background views are wrong. But I agree with you that P is the right policy. It&#039;s just that I have different reasons for supporting P.&quot; A is pointing towards an incompletely theorized agreement on P. But on my hypothesis, A doesn&#039;t say any of this. She just argues from R1 to convince B to support P. I think there are reasons to worry about that case (aside from the obvoius concerns about manipulation), at least from within a developed theory of public reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Paul, I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s possible to dissolve the problem the way you suggest. A may think B has reasonable grounds for supporting P (at least from within B&#8217;s perspective), but A might think those grounds are defective, or perhaps just not the best (or most reasonable) justification for P. If she were candid, A might say: &#8220;Look B, given what you believe, you&#8217;re committed to P. I don&#8217;t happen to agree with what you believe. In fact, I think your background views are wrong. But I agree with you that P is the right policy. It&#8217;s just that I have different reasons for supporting P.&#8221; A is pointing towards an incompletely theorized agreement on P. But on my hypothesis, A doesn&#8217;t say any of this. She just argues from R1 to convince B to support P. I think there are reasons to worry about that case (aside from the obvoius concerns about manipulation), at least from within a developed theory of public reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gowder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/15/secret-ballots/comment-page-1/#comment-156066</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Gowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 16:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4667#comment-156066</guid>
		<description>Micah -- you say you have argued for a strong sincerity requirement, but it&#039;s not clear from your comment whether you did so because of cascading effects, etc., or some other reason.  Could you clarify?  I&#039;ve been wondering in the back of my head about sincerity requirements too.  

One possible response to the formulation you give is, I guess, to define the problem out of existence.  If A is justified in thinking that B is reasonably committed to P based on reason R1, then A must believe that R1 is a reasonable reason to support P.  (Otherwise, A could not believe that B&#039;s committment is reasonable.)  In that case, on one notion of sincerity, A is being perfectly sincere when A gives R1 to B, because A is giving one of the reasons A thinks is reasonable.  

To invalidate A&#039;s conduct, one would have to come up with a justification for a requirement of sincerity that requires giving &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of one&#039;s reasons.  Is there one?  If the goal, stated broadly/loosely, is to respect the autonomy of the person entitled to claim reasons, how does a withholding of some reasons impair it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Micah&#8212;you say you have argued for a strong sincerity requirement, but it&#8217;s not clear from your comment whether you did so because of cascading effects, etc., or some other reason.  Could you clarify?  I&#8217;ve been wondering in the back of my head about sincerity requirements too.</p>

	<p>One possible response to the formulation you give is, I guess, to define the problem out of existence.  If A is justified in thinking that B is reasonably committed to P based on reason R1, then A must believe that R1 is a reasonable reason to support P.  (Otherwise, A could not believe that B&#8217;s committment is reasonable.)  In that case, on one notion of sincerity, A is being perfectly sincere when A gives R1 to B, because A is giving one of the reasons A thinks is reasonable.</p>

	<p>To invalidate A&#8217;s conduct, one would have to come up with a justification for a requirement of sincerity that requires giving <i>all</i> of one&#8217;s reasons.  Is there one?  If the goal, stated broadly/loosely, is to respect the autonomy of the person entitled to claim reasons, how does a withholding of some reasons impair it?</p>
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