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	<title>Comments on: Fun books</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156833</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 08:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156833</guid>
		<description>&quot;Seems to me that given the claim that the Singularity is strictly unimaginable ex ante, writers tend to use it as a sort of Rorschach test in which they (more or less self-consciously) see what they came in with.&quot;

Of course, projections about the future of the Internet have always been like that. To give a classical analogy (C21 style), it&#039;s like the mirror of Erised in Harry Potter - you see what you most wish for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Seems to me that given the claim that the Singularity is strictly unimaginable ex ante, writers tend to use it as a sort of Rorschach test in which they (more or less self-consciously) see what they came in with.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Of course, projections about the future of the Internet have always been like that. To give a classical analogy (C21 style), it&#8217;s like the mirror of Erised in Harry Potter &#8211; you see what you most wish for.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Maverick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156736</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Maverick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 16:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156736</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I botched the links in that.  Mainly I meant to link to Brigham&#039;s book at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=0918786525&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Small Press Distribution&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmm, I botched the links in that.  Mainly I meant to link to Brigham&#8217;s book at <a href="http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=0918786525" rel="nofollow">Small Press Distribution</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Maverick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156733</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Maverick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 16:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156733</guid>
		<description>No worries, Henry -- I find it very hard to orient myself in
contemporary poetry.  There&#039;s so much of it, and like any poetry, it&#039;s
hard to assess.  I generally share &lt;a href=&quot;ronsilliman.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ron Silliman&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s frame of reference,
for example (if not his sensibility), but I can&#039;t imagine keeping up
with the volume of stuff he discusses.

That said, there&#039;s lots of older poetry out there waiting for one to
find it.  Silliman recently mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#82087760&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Besmilr
Brigham&lt;/a&gt;, whose work turns out to be really rewarding.  She
published mainly in the &#039;60s, and was quite at home in the postmodern
poetics of the period; but she also belonged to an earlier generation,
and to a vanishing rural vernacular culture.  Searching now, I see
Silliman posted an &lt;a href=&quot;http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#82087760&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;appreciation&lt;/a&gt;
of this book when it came out -- beyond what he says there, I would
draw a connection to the poetry of D.H. Lawrence.

(I&#039;m not really sure how to pronounce her name, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wmich.edu/~ulib/special/collections/inman.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;
notes that her maiden name was Bess Miller Moore.)

I&#039;m not complaining that you-all&#039;re failing in your duty to broaden me.  I&#039;m just struck that the literary gamut is even narrower than the &lt;a href=&quot;http://crookedtimber.org/2004/01/29/wheres-florence-nightingale-when-you-need-her&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;political one&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No worries, Henry&#8212;I find it very hard to orient myself in<br />
contemporary poetry.  There&#8217;s so much of it, and like any poetry, it&#8217;s<br />
hard to assess.  I generally share <a href="ronsilliman.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Ron Silliman</a>&#8217;s frame of reference,<br />
for example (if not his sensibility), but I can&#8217;t imagine keeping up<br />
with the volume of stuff he discusses.</p>

	<p>That said, there&#8217;s lots of older poetry out there waiting for one to<br />
find it.  Silliman recently mentioned <a href="http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#82087760" rel="nofollow">Besmilr<br />
Brigham</a>, whose work turns out to be really rewarding.  She<br />
published mainly in the &#8216;60s, and was quite at home in the postmodern<br />
poetics of the period; but she also belonged to an earlier generation,<br />
and to a vanishing rural vernacular culture.  Searching now, I see<br />
Silliman posted an <a href="http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#82087760" rel="nofollow">appreciation</a><br />
of this book when it came out&#8212;beyond what he says there, I would<br />
draw a connection to the poetry of D.H. Lawrence.</p>

	<p>(I&#8217;m not really sure how to pronounce her name, but <a href="http://www.wmich.edu/~ulib/special/collections/inman.php" rel="nofollow">this</a><br />
notes that her maiden name was Bess Miller Moore.)</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not complaining that you-all&#8217;re failing in your duty to broaden me.  I&#8217;m just struck that the literary gamut is even narrower than the <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2004/01/29/wheres-florence-nightingale-when-you-need-her" rel="nofollow">political one</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Observer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156721</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 15:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156721</guid>
		<description>&gt; Patrick O’Brian met Anne McCaffrey where? A 
&gt; concert by Tom Waits and the Tallis Scholars? 
&gt; A seminar on ethics by HH the Dalai Lama and 
&gt; Tom Delay?

Well, first you have to keep in mind that after his death it turned out that almost everything Patrick O&#039;Brian said about himself was a fib.

But back in the late 1980s I used to get a Patrick O&#039;Brian Newsletter once a quarter from the publisher of the Aubrey series (W.W. Norton?).  O&#039;Brian contributed some essays about his experiences traveling around the promo circuit.  Based on what he wrote I doubt he would have minded meeting McCaffrey (and contrary to his public persona I suspect he did know who she was).

Cranky

My favorite of his essays was about his visit to the US Navy base at Norfolk.  He went there expecting to sign books in the PX and give a lecture in a classroom; he was led into an auditorium with 3000 Navy dudes seated in ranks from admirals in the front row to ordinary seaman in the 3rd balcony - all waiting expectently for his words of wisdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>> Patrick O&#8217;Brian met Anne McCaffrey where? A<br />
> concert by Tom Waits and the Tallis Scholars?<br />
> A seminar on ethics by HH the Dalai Lama and<br />
> Tom Delay?</p>

	<p>Well, first you have to keep in mind that after his death it turned out that almost everything Patrick O&#8217;Brian said about himself was a fib.</p>

	<p>But back in the late 1980s I used to get a Patrick O&#8217;Brian Newsletter once a quarter from the publisher of the Aubrey series (W.W. Norton?).  O&#8217;Brian contributed some essays about his experiences traveling around the promo circuit.  Based on what he wrote I doubt he would have minded meeting McCaffrey (and contrary to his public persona I suspect he did know who she was).</p>

	<p>Cranky</p>

	<p>My favorite of his essays was about his visit to the <span class="caps">US </span>Navy base at Norfolk.  He went there expecting to sign books in the PX and give a lecture in a classroom; he was led into an auditorium with 3000 Navy dudes seated in ranks from admirals in the front row to ordinary seaman in the 3rd balcony &#8211; all waiting expectently for his words of wisdom.</p>
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		<title>By: fatwhiteduke</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156703</link>
		<dc:creator>fatwhiteduke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 12:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156703</guid>
		<description>What about &quot;Nova&quot;, by Samuel R Delany?  The revival of the Tarot is just one amusing element in this future world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What about &#8220;Nova&#8221;, by Samuel R Delany?  The revival of the Tarot is just one amusing element in this future world.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Gardner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156702</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 12:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156702</guid>
		<description>A few more from the recent and recommended:

David Warsh, &lt;i&gt;Knowledge and the Wealth of Nations&lt;/i&gt;. Read it on Tyler Cowen&#039;s recommendation in &lt;i&gt;MR&lt;/i&gt;, and the dude is never wrong. Maybe John has an opinion about whether it gets the story right.

Allegra Goodman, &lt;i&gt;Intuition&lt;/i&gt;. The story flags a bit, but she gets the milieu of NIH extramural life perfectly.

And I liked McCarthy&#039;s latest, &lt;i&gt;No Country for Old Men&lt;/i&gt;, even though it was poorly reviewed. I heard that Tommy Lee Jones bought the rights and some of &lt;i&gt;No Country&lt;/i&gt; takes place in the same town where &lt;i&gt;The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada&lt;/i&gt; happens, obviously no accident (good movie, BTW).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A few more from the recent and recommended:</p>

	<p>David Warsh, <i>Knowledge and the Wealth of Nations</i>. Read it on Tyler Cowen&#8217;s recommendation in <i>MR</i>, and the dude is never wrong. Maybe John has an opinion about whether it gets the story right.</p>

	<p>Allegra Goodman, <i>Intuition</i>. The story flags a bit, but she gets the milieu of <span class="caps">NIH</span> extramural life perfectly.</p>

	<p>And I liked McCarthy&#8217;s latest, <i>No Country for Old Men</i>, even though it was poorly reviewed. I heard that Tommy Lee Jones bought the rights and some of <i>No Country</i> takes place in the same town where <i>The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada</i> happens, obviously no accident (good movie, <span class="caps">BTW</span>).</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156698</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 11:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156698</guid>
		<description>bq. The Accelerando world of self-aware derivative contracts (or whatever they are) is funny, but deeply inhospitable.

Yes - this is what I liked the most about the book too. Seems to me that given the claim that the Singularity is strictly unimaginable _ex ante_, writers tend to use it as a sort of Rorschach test in which they (more or less self-consciously) see what they came in with. So we get a lot of extropian/technolibertarian views of the Singularity unleashing radical individuality - and Stross&#039;s response which I suspect is a deliberate critique, and is really imo a satire of globalization run amok. Whether our future belongs to incredibly complex financial instruments, our present surely does.

Vance - fair enough. I don&#039;t know much about modern poetry - my own tastes are stuck in the 1950s or so - some of the standards (Yeats, Eliot, Moore etc) as well as some who aren&#039;t very fashionable today (Jarrell). Although his poetry criticism seems to be undergoing a minor revival. In my defence, while I surely haven&#039;t posted about Babel (I&#039;ve never read him) - I have &quot;posted&quot;:http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/22/n1/ about someone else writing about Babel. I recommend the Batuman essay wholeheartedly - and plan to write about the new issue of N+1 when I get my hands on it.

Bill - &quot;Blood Meridian&quot; is one of my favourite books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote>The Accelerando world of self-aware derivative contracts (or whatever they are) is funny, but deeply inhospitable.</blockquote>

	<p>Yes &#8211; this is what I liked the most about the book too. Seems to me that given the claim that the Singularity is strictly unimaginable <em>ex ante</em>, writers tend to use it as a sort of Rorschach test in which they (more or less self-consciously) see what they came in with. So we get a lot of extropian/technolibertarian views of the Singularity unleashing radical individuality &#8211; and Stross&#8217;s response which I suspect is a deliberate critique, and is really imo a satire of globalization run amok. Whether our future belongs to incredibly complex financial instruments, our present surely does.</p>

	<p>Vance &#8211; fair enough. I don&#8217;t know much about modern poetry &#8211; my own tastes are stuck in the 1950s or so &#8211; some of the standards (Yeats, Eliot, Moore etc) as well as some who aren&#8217;t very fashionable today (Jarrell). Although his poetry criticism seems to be undergoing a minor revival. In my defence, while I surely haven&#8217;t posted about Babel (I&#8217;ve never read him) &#8211; I have <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/22/n1/" title="">posted</a> about someone else writing about Babel. I recommend the Batuman essay wholeheartedly &#8211; and plan to write about the new issue of N+1 when I get my hands on it.</p>

	<p>Bill &#8211; &#8220;Blood Meridian&#8221; is one of my favourite books.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156690</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 11:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156690</guid>
		<description>Another Snap! Blood Meridian is on my bedside table waiting to be read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another Snap! Blood Meridian is on my bedside table waiting to be read.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Maverick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156676</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Maverick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 05:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156676</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Bill.  I&#039;ll check it out (in both senses) again -- it&#039;s been eight years or so since I tried it last.

To respond in kind, I&#039;d highly recommend the recent Collected Stories of Isaac Babel (tr. Constantine).  The Red Cavalry stories are excellent and consistently surprising (be warned, though, they too may bring on the PTSD); but there are other gems as well, such as &quot;The Story of My Dovecote&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, Bill.  I&#8217;ll check it out (in both senses) again&#8212;it&#8217;s been eight years or so since I tried it last.</p>

	<p>To respond in kind, I&#8217;d highly recommend the recent Collected Stories of Isaac Babel (tr. Constantine).  The Red Cavalry stories are excellent and consistently surprising (be warned, though, they too may bring on the <span class="caps">PTSD</span>); but there are other gems as well, such as &#8220;The Story of My Dovecote&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Gardner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156673</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 04:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156673</guid>
		<description>Vance -- I recently got round to reading Cormac McCarthy. Get &lt;i&gt;Blood Meridian&lt;/i&gt; from the library (so you can return it if you feel PTSD developing...). It has something of the feeling of &lt;i&gt;Njal&#039;s Saga&lt;/i&gt;, except the Vikings were more civilized than the Texans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Vance&#8212;I recently got round to reading Cormac McCarthy. Get <i>Blood Meridian</i> from the library (so you can return it if you feel <span class="caps">PTSD</span> developing&#8230;). It has something of the feeling of <i>Njal&#8217;s Saga</i>, except the Vikings were more civilized than the Texans.</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Maverick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156671</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Maverick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 04:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156671</guid>
		<description>Could you guys recommend something other than &quot;SF/F&quot; for once?   Yes, I realize I&#039;m grousing stereotypically about the flavors of free ice cream on offer (and the portions are so small!)....but never a volume of &quot;straight&quot; fiction? or of poetry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Could you guys recommend something other than &#8220;SF/F&#8221; for once?   Yes, I realize I&#8217;m grousing stereotypically about the flavors of free ice cream on offer (and the portions are so small!)&#8230;.but never a volume of &#8220;straight&#8221; fiction? or of poetry?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Gardner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156668</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 02:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156668</guid>
		<description>John, no disagreement. What makes &lt;i&gt;Accelerando&lt;/i&gt; less enjoyable is that it is so clear that after the Singularity, the world isn&#039;t about &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt; anymore. The other writers in this genre (including Stross in the &#039;time-like diplomacy&#039; books) can only make human characters and actions matter through contrivances. The Eschaton in &lt;i&gt;Iron Sunrise&lt;/i&gt;, for example, essentially freezes history in a pre-Singular state so as to pre-empt competition from other post-humans. The &lt;i&gt;Accelerando&lt;/i&gt; world of self-aware derivative contracts (or whatever they are) is funny, but deeply inhospitable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John, no disagreement. What makes <i>Accelerando</i> less enjoyable is that it is so clear that after the Singularity, the world isn&#8217;t about <i>us</i> anymore. The other writers in this genre (including Stross in the &#8216;time-like diplomacy&#8217; books) can only make human characters and actions matter through contrivances. The Eschaton in <i>Iron Sunrise</i>, for example, essentially freezes history in a pre-Singular state so as to pre-empt competition from other post-humans. The <i>Accelerando</i> world of self-aware derivative contracts (or whatever they are) is funny, but deeply inhospitable.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156662</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 00:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156662</guid>
		<description>Snap! I just read the first two Clan novels, and I also have a half-written review of Glyn Morgan (in my head, not on the hard disk, but that&#039;s a minor detail). 

I agree with Bill on &quot;less interesting but more enjoyable&quot;, but I still think &lt;i&gt;Accelerando&lt;/i&gt; is deserving of its awards. I think it&#039;s the right way to write about the Singularity, if you&#039;re going to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Snap! I just read the first two Clan novels, and I also have a half-written review of Glyn Morgan (in my head, not on the hard disk, but that&#8217;s a minor detail).</p>

	<p>I agree with Bill on &#8220;less interesting but more enjoyable&#8221;, but I still think <i>Accelerando</i> is deserving of its awards. I think it&#8217;s the right way to write about the Singularity, if you&#8217;re going to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Gardner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/fun-books/comment-page-1/#comment-156653</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 22:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4699#comment-156653</guid>
		<description>I agree about the Clan novels: they are less interesting but more enjoyable than Accelerando (BTW, Amazon says that another novel in the Accelerando world is in the works).

Patrick O&#039;Brian met Anne McCaffrey where? A concert by Tom Waits and the Tallis Scholars? A seminar on ethics by HH the Dalai Lama and Tom Delay?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree about the Clan novels: they are less interesting but more enjoyable than Accelerando (BTW, Amazon says that another novel in the Accelerando world is in the works).</p>

	<p>Patrick O&#8217;Brian met Anne McCaffrey where? A concert by Tom Waits and the Tallis Scholars? A seminar on ethics by HH the Dalai Lama and Tom Delay?</p>
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