Comments on: Peter Beinart wants to reclaim “reform” http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:56:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Alan Peakall http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156684 Alan Peakall Wed, 24 May 2006 08:48:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156684 Indeed Theo, perhaps Conservatism could get a makeover as "The Precautionary Principle in Politics". Oh, David Cameron has already thought of that one! Indeed Theo, perhaps Conservatism could get a makeover as “The Precautionary Principle in Politics”. Oh, David Cameron has already thought of that one!

]]> By: theo http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156631 theo Tue, 23 May 2006 18:23:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156631 <i>Doesn’t everyone believe they’re on the side of history?</i> Not everyone; isn't that the spirit of Toryism? Witness C.S. Lewis's admirably Screwtape-esque attempt to recast Toryism as progressive: <blockquote>We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive. </blockquote> Doesn’t everyone believe they’re on the side of history?

Not everyone; isn’t that the spirit of Toryism?

Witness C.S. Lewis’s admirably Screwtape-esque attempt to recast Toryism as progressive:

We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.

]]> By: Donald Johnson http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156625 Donald Johnson Tue, 23 May 2006 17:13:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156625 Perhaps we just need a political dictionary for various publications, one that translates "reform" into more objective language. In the New York Times, for instance, "economic reform" means neoliberal economic policies. Perhaps we just need a political dictionary for various publications, one that translates “reform” into more objective language. In the New York Times, for instance, “economic reform” means neoliberal economic policies.

]]> By: C.J.Colucci http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156616 C.J.Colucci Tue, 23 May 2006 14:55:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156616 Some curmudgeon or other, I suspect either some Tory politico or Roscoe Conkling, once said something pretty close to: "Whoever said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel has overlooked the potential of 'reform.'" Some curmudgeon or other, I suspect either some Tory politico or Roscoe Conkling, once said something pretty close to: “Whoever said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel has overlooked the potential of ‘reform.’”

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156615 abb1 Tue, 23 May 2006 14:38:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156615 <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~action/ads2/bushrefres.html" rel="nofollow">Reformer With Results</a>. Reformer With Results.

]]> By: Hogan http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156612 Hogan Tue, 23 May 2006 13:57:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156612 When I hear Republicans use the word "reform," I reach for my revolver. When I hear Republicans use the word “reform,” I reach for my revolver.

]]> By: kharris http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156611 kharris Tue, 23 May 2006 13:49:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156611 A ban on use of the word "reform" was issued many years ago by a competent writer (Who? Can't remember) on the grounds that it is so overused that it no longer has any meaning other than "change that I want." No preference for any particular nobler use of the word is needed, none has been needed for many years, in order to recognize the correctness of this view. "Reform" has meant nothing more than "change" for a very long time. Good writers should avoid words that diverge in denotation and connotation, unless they have a good, preferably funny, reason for using them. A ban on use of the word “reform” was issued many years ago by a competent writer (Who? Can’t remember) on the grounds that it is so overused that it no longer has any meaning other than “change that I want.” No preference for any particular nobler use of the word is needed, none has been needed for many years, in order to recognize the correctness of this view. “Reform” has meant nothing more than “change” for a very long time. Good writers should avoid words that diverge in denotation and connotation, unless they have a good, preferably funny, reason for using them.

]]> By: JRoth http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156608 JRoth Tue, 23 May 2006 13:36:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156608 <i>As long as global GDP keeps on increasing at 2 to 4% per year</i> Two words, soru: Peak Oil. OK, I'm not convinced either, but I think that your basic premise is extremely dubious. It's the working assumption of most 1st-worlders, and pretty much all 1st world politicans, but that doesn't make it the best basis for planning for the future. There are a lot of obstacles between us and 2-4% growth forever; the best way to effectively surmount those obastacles is to recognize that they exist, and will need to be addressed. As long as global GDP keeps on increasing at 2 to 4% per year

Two words, soru:

Peak Oil.

OK, I’m not convinced either, but I think that your basic premise is extremely dubious. It’s the working assumption of most 1st-worlders, and pretty much all 1st world politicans, but that doesn’t make it the best basis for planning for the future.

There are a lot of obstacles between us and 2-4% growth forever; the best way to effectively surmount those obastacles is to recognize that they exist, and will need to be addressed.

]]> By: soru http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156606 soru Tue, 23 May 2006 12:34:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156606 As long as global GDP keeps on increasing at 2 to 4% per year, then it will remain the case that the set of things that are sustainably possible today is greater than the set of things possible yesterday, and smaller than that of tomorrow. Some localised intellectual confusion and political incompetence affects little but the relative standing of the unfortunate country so afflicted. As long as global GDP keeps on increasing at 2 to 4% per year, then it will remain the case that the set of things that are sustainably possible today is greater than the set of things possible yesterday, and smaller than that of tomorrow.

Some localised intellectual confusion and political incompetence affects little but the relative standing of the unfortunate country so afflicted.

]]> By: Alex http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156605 Alex Tue, 23 May 2006 12:27:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156605 <i>Why cannot ‘progressive’ attach to any proposal or program of socio-economic and/or political change that endeavors to fuller embody, instantiate or realize the values and principles associated with liberty, equality, and, say, solidarity? Or sincere attempts to practically implement democratically expressed goals for distributive justice?</i> I deplore the criminal lack of attention your otherwise sensible proposal shows to the burning issue of our times, ponies. Why cannot ‘progressive’ attach to any proposal or program of socio-economic and/or political change that endeavors to fuller embody, instantiate or realize the values and principles associated with liberty, equality, and, say, solidarity? Or sincere attempts to practically implement democratically expressed goals for distributive justice?

I deplore the criminal lack of attention your otherwise sensible proposal shows to the burning issue of our times, ponies.

]]> By: Jacob T. Levy http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156604 Jacob T. Levy Tue, 23 May 2006 12:25:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156604 <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/buckley200406290949.asp" rel="nofollow">"Standing athwart history and yelling stop"</a> isn't “history will prove my policy wrong, but I’m going to do it anyway”-- but it may be "everything tends to go to hell and in the long run I'll lose, but I'm going to do it anyway." That was a characteristic conservative attitude for a long time. A good number of the ex-communist conservatives continued to think that the Marxist view of history might well be right; they were just determined to try to stave the historically-inevitable moral catastrophe off for a little while longer. I suspect that there were characteristic deformations introduced by this mindset, too-- not least the victimhood attitude that's proven so well-entrenched on the right, and the unwillingness post-1994 to really believe that they were in power and had to start governing. “Standing athwart history and yelling stop” isn’t “history will prove my policy wrong, but I’m going to do it anyway”—but it may be “everything tends to go to hell and in the long run I’ll lose, but I’m going to do it anyway.” That was a characteristic conservative attitude for a long time. A good number of the ex-communist conservatives continued to think that the Marxist view of history might well be right; they were just determined to try to stave the historically-inevitable moral catastrophe off for a little while longer.

I suspect that there were characteristic deformations introduced by this mindset, too—not least the victimhood attitude that’s proven so well-entrenched on the right, and the unwillingness post-1994 to really believe that they were in power and had to start governing.

]]> By: Patrick S. O'Donnell http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156602 Patrick S. O'Donnell Tue, 23 May 2006 12:22:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156602 Why cannot 'progressive' attach to any proposal or program of socio-economic and/or political change that endeavors to fuller embody, instantiate or realize the values and principles associated with liberty, equality, and, say, solidarity? Or sincere attempts to practically implement democratically expressed goals for distributive justice? Etc., Etc. There need be no assumption or presumption of historicism provided we are clear as to the criteria that outline the desiderata to be met, as well as acknowledge the possibility that we might fail, that we might encounter temporary or insuperable obstacles, have setbacks (on the order of two steps forward, one step backward), not live to see our dreams realized, and so forth and so on. The fact that people misuse the adjective 'progressive' in sloganeeering or as an all-too-convenient label, need not mean its referent has altogether disappeared or that we invariably subscribe to naive notions of invevitable progress. And there's nothing wrong with acknowledging different rates of progress in different arenas of social life: for instance, rapid technological 'progress' in the affluent nations of the North, comparatively little progess on the moral front, some progess with respect to the development of international law.... Why cannot ‘progressive’ attach to any proposal or program of socio-economic and/or political change that endeavors to fuller embody, instantiate or realize the values and principles associated with liberty, equality, and, say, solidarity? Or sincere attempts to practically implement democratically expressed goals for distributive justice? Etc., Etc. There need be no assumption or presumption of historicism provided we are clear as to the criteria that outline the desiderata to be met, as well as acknowledge the possibility that we might fail, that we might encounter temporary or insuperable obstacles, have setbacks (on the order of two steps forward, one step backward), not live to see our dreams realized, and so forth and so on. The fact that people misuse the adjective ‘progressive’ in sloganeeering or as an all-too-convenient label, need not mean its referent has altogether disappeared or that we invariably subscribe to naive notions of invevitable progress. And there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging different rates of progress in different arenas of social life: for instance, rapid technological ‘progress’ in the affluent nations of the North, comparatively little progess on the moral front, some progess with respect to the development of international law….

]]> By: harry b http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156600 harry b Tue, 23 May 2006 12:09:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156600 #6: Metternich as a counterexample? #6: Metternich as a counterexample?

]]> By: Tom T. http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156599 Tom T. Tue, 23 May 2006 12:05:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156599 John Q, Doesn't everyone believe they're on the side of history? I suspect that few politicians on the right actually think to themselves, "history will prove my policy wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway." John Q,

Doesn’t everyone believe they’re on the side of history? I suspect that few politicians on the right actually think to themselves, “history will prove my policy wrong, but I’m going to do it anyway.”

]]> By: DivGuy http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-156598 DivGuy Tue, 23 May 2006 11:57:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/peter-beinart-wants-to-reclaim-reform/#comment-156598 I think we just need to start pronouncing it RE-form, like the guy in O Brother Where Art Thou. I think we just need to start pronouncing it RE-form, like the guy in O Brother Where Art Thou.

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