Comments on: One Day in the Life of Abdul ibn Denis

By: rollo

rollo — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:45:23 +0000

The Soviet Union, the Nazis, Tamerlane, Attila, Nebuchadnezzer – these are all fixed quantities, relatively known, entirely done.
They can be compared to each other, but not to this, to whatever Zdenek means by “the US”.
This thing here is in process, still forming and incomplete. And we have some say in how that goes.
Pointing out disturbing parallels, and condemning them, seems unimpeachably appropriate, but it won’t be possible to truly compare the reign of whoever and whatever has created Guantanamo Bay et al. with the Soviets or the Nazis until that reign is over.
Which it is not, yet.
So we must perforce speak to it, each in our way.
And sophomoric joking to the contrary, Diego Garcia is far darker than Guantanamo, in every sense but the meteorological.

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:23:28 +0000

There was a terrible civil war in the middle of these 200 years. It’s an experiment and work in progress.

By: zdenek

zdenek — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 13:14:51 +0000

Observe though the stability of US ( 200 years + ) which means it endures and that tells us something about its political health ; that the system gets something right (what this is is an interesting question : one atractive /pesuasive suggestion from Rawls is roughly that US gets the balance between liberty and equality right ). Compare the short life of Soviet Union and other totalitarian set ups.

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:12:03 +0000

The Soviet Union reformed itself too: at the 20th congress Stalin’s cult of personality was repudiated, there was significant liberalization, most political prisoners were released and many rehabilitated. Then, of course, under Gorby it reformed itself as drastically as no political system has ever done before. China has reformed itself too. In fact, I think the lack of democracy only makes it easier to reform when a reform-minded guy gets on top.

By: zdenek

zdenek — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:45:19 +0000

re 187—I think this is a shallow view of liberal democracy like US because it glosses over what is an essential element : that it can reform itself through sort of self reflection because the public space i.e. its laws and procedures for resolving conflict are not driven by any specific conception of good but only by a political conception.
So you can get move from gender opresion or slavery to a more just set up much quicker then in any other political set up. This is a virtue of the system and you dont register it. If it is a virtue we should cherish it .

By: zdenek

zdenek — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:35:44 +0000

abb1—you see almost a Eustonite now you just need to come out

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:34:59 +0000

There have been long periods when the US political system – the same exactly political system – was equally or more oppressive: slavery, civil war, perhaps reconstruction, racial policies in the first half of the 20th century.

Enjoy this good period while it lasts.

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:17:11 +0000

The US political system at the moment is much less oppressive towards its own citizens than the Soviet Union, especially the Soviet Union between 1929 (anti-kulak campaign) and 1956 (the 20th congress). That’s obvious.

The US political system, though, seems more oppressive towards, say, Sunni Arabs in Iraq than the Soviet Union towards, say, Czechs and Slovaks in 1968.

By: Chris Bertram

Chris Bertram — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:09:38 +0000

Is Jerry Garcia Diego’s brother?

By: zdenek

zdenek — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:50:23 +0000

you are trying to change the topic of discusion which at the moment is whether abb1 believes that US political system ( internel + foreign policy + its treatment of its own citizens etc ) is as oppresive as a totalitarian regime we get in say former Soviet U.
If it is true that you believe this you should say so and stop ducking and diving .

By: Brendan

Brendan — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:41:39 +0000

Woo hoo! I think I am the hippest! But also, the Eustonites don’t have any problems with me. Because I am too incoherent admittedly, but that’s the price you pay for being the hippest. At least I THINK I am the hippest. But if you think something is true, in many ways, doesn’t that prove it is?

I will mull this point over after I take this monster bong hit. Luckily I have just bought a box CD set of the greatest hits of Jerry Garcia: these will provide the ideal conditions in which to work out the cosmic meaning of Zdenek’s opaque ramblings.

Peace, love and hot knives, man.

By: rollo

rollo — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:34:12 +0000

Now let’s talk about Diego Garcia.

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:33:57 +0000

Same is the case with the secret prisons – what’s your basis for believing that, say, totally innocent people are not being skinned alive there?

You have no rational case to make here, just your blind faith that N.Korean secret prisons are evil and US secret prisons are good (or much better).

Well, I’m an agnostic. Does it make more sense to be an agnostic or a true believer?

By: abb1

abb1 — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:23:37 +0000

No, I don’t think it shifts the burden of proof to me. If you think that DOD claims in regards to their prisoners are more valid than NKVD claims in regard to theirs, it’s up to you to prove it.

In the case of gitmo, there’s zero oversight, no trials, no process outside the DOD, nothing whatsoever but the DOD claims, and the DOD itself is a totalitarian organization. So I don’t really see what your faith is based on. It seems to be some kind of irrational quasi-religious faith.

By: zdenek

zdenek — Fri, 16 Jun 2006 09:56:14 +0000

just on this thread in # 37 you defend Soviet Union by saying that murder of Kulaks was an acception an aberation .# 48 defence of Soviet Union # 80 accepts at face value the NKVD take on Solzhenitsyn . # 81 says that Pentagon is as believable as NKVD. and so on . And then look at # 173 just above where we see the typical sentiment ( I have been seeing this same outlook for past 2 years ) totalitarian regime of the worst kind is very much like US ( as far as prison sysstem is concerned ) but wait for it ” we dont know its so bad because it is secret” ( similar to your Kulaks comment.

This is probably not proof of what I say in # 176 but it shifts the burden of proof to you ( that you hold the view I ascribe to you ).:)