<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Boss</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:53:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159581</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jun 2006 00:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159581</guid>
		<description>Actually Vincent Browne did ask Haughey where he got his money. What&#039;s more, Haughey told him, but Browne didn&#039;t believe him.

Specifically, CJH told VB that he could borrow against his palatial home. VB said this made no sense, since the banks would be looking for interest and repayments. CJH said &quot;no&quot;, VB didn&#039;t believe him. As we now know, CJH was right - the bank, once he was in office, didn&#039;t look for repayments. This was before he got all that money from Ben Dunne.

Browne recounts all this on his radio show, where you can also find a clip from Scrap Saturday, albeit not quite the best one to illustrate the essential cute hoor/Boss CJH - rather it&#039;s a pisstake of his penchant to claim ancestry everywhere in Ireland and beyond.

Go here and choose the Tuesday 13th the show, about 56min 30sec in.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/tonightwithvincentbrowne/1095455.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually Vincent Browne did ask Haughey where he got his money. What&#8217;s more, Haughey told him, but Browne didn&#8217;t believe him.</p>

	<p>Specifically, <span class="caps">CJH</span> told VB that he could borrow against his palatial home. VB said this made no sense, since the banks would be looking for interest and repayments. <span class="caps">CJH</span> said &#8220;no&#8221;, VB didn&#8217;t believe him. As we now know, <span class="caps">CJH</span> was right &#8211; the bank, once he was in office, didn&#8217;t look for repayments. This was before he got all that money from Ben Dunne.</p>

	<p>Browne recounts all this on his radio show, where you can also find a clip from Scrap Saturday, albeit not quite the best one to illustrate the essential cute hoor/Boss <span class="caps">CJH </span>- rather it&#8217;s a pisstake of his penchant to claim ancestry everywhere in Ireland and beyond.</p>

	<p>Go here and choose the Tuesday 13th the show, about 56min 30sec in.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.rte.ie/radio1/tonightwithvincentbrowne/1095455.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rte.ie/radio1/tonightwithvincentbrowne/1095455.html</a></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mick gannon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159556</link>
		<dc:creator>mick gannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 19:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159556</guid>
		<description>I grew up in Ireland in the 80&#039;s, I live in The US now. The Irish people voted this clown in. Each time there was an election I just pointed to the fact that while the whole country was hurting this cute hoor had his own PRIVATE ISLAND. No one had the guts to really ask him point blank how he got all his wealth on a politicians wages. The cute hoor thing will only work as long as the people allow it. I hope the next generation are more fortright in questioning their leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I grew up in Ireland in the 80&#8217;s, I live in The US now. The Irish people voted this clown in. Each time there was an election I just pointed to the fact that while the whole country was hurting this cute hoor had his own <span class="caps">PRIVATE ISLAND</span>. No one had the guts to really ask him point blank how he got all his wealth on a politicians wages. The cute hoor thing will only work as long as the people allow it. I hope the next generation are more fortright in questioning their leaders.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159465</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 08:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159465</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It was a radio show.&lt;/i&gt;

Ah. Audio, then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It was a radio show.</i></p>

	<p>Ah. Audio, then?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159316</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 15:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159316</guid>
		<description>&quot;against British colonialism in Ireland&quot;: that&#039;s still a euphemism for ethnic cleansing of the Irish protestants, is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;against British colonialism in Ireland&#8221;: that&#8217;s still a euphemism for ethnic cleansing of the Irish protestants, is it?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159246</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159246</guid>
		<description>Lyndon Johnson maybe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lyndon Johnson maybe?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: goatchowder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159222</link>
		<dc:creator>goatchowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159222</guid>
		<description>Umm, Boss Tweed?

Wasn&#039;t he Irish as well, the &quot;cute hoor&quot; of New York?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Umm, Boss Tweed?</p>

	<p>Wasn&#8217;t he Irish as well, the &#8220;cute hoor&#8221; of New York?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159209</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159209</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Link to video, anyone?&lt;/i&gt;

It was  a radio show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Link to video, anyone?</i></p>

	<p>It was  a radio show.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159202</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159202</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Actually this makes me wonder whether it’s really possible to understand the essence of Haughey without having heard Dermot Morgan’s guttural impression (“Maaara…”) on Scrap Saturday.&lt;/i&gt;

Sigh. Link to video, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Actually this makes me wonder whether it&#8217;s really possible to understand the essence of Haughey without having heard Dermot Morgan&#8217;s guttural impression (&#8220;Maaara&#8230;&#8221;) on Scrap Saturday.</i></p>

	<p>Sigh. Link to video, anyone?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: puzzled</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159197</link>
		<dc:creator>puzzled</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159197</guid>
		<description>I had a real analysis professor who liked to say &quot;That&#039;s a cute proof&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I had a real analysis professor who liked to say &#8220;That&#8217;s a cute proof&#8221;.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159195</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159195</guid>
		<description>I agree with doug m that we won&#039;t see his likes again and it&#039;s tempting to regard Haughey as sui generis.  But part of the explanation lies in understanding the nature of the Fianna Fáil party, the politics of brokerage or clientilism Irish style, and perhaps the residual traces of a peasant political culture.  It&#039;s well over 20 years ago since I read Paddy O&#039;Carroll&#039;s &quot;cute hoors and sneaking regarders&quot; article - I must dig it out again.  

Haughey&#039;s defenders will say that &quot;he did the state some service&quot;.  His detractors will want to emphasise the taint of corruption and abuse of power associated with his governments.  There&#039;s truth in both propositions.  He was exceptionally talented and took some daring policy initiatives that had lasting benefits.  While he was an opportunistic adventurer and consummate populist he did not try to remake Irish democracy on personalistic lines in the way Berlusconi attempted in Italy.

Fianna Fáil was, and still is, the dominant party in the system and it owes its dominance to the way it used a political strategy/discourse based on nationalism and populism to become a cross-class political alliance of urban and rural, centre and periphery.  It managed to appear to be part of the Establishment while remaining outside of it. 

Haughey himself embodied all these contradictions in extremis.  He was a sophisticated European statesman of considerable personal wealth and a devoted patron of the arts.  He was also a gutty populist and beloved of the north Dublin working class.  He could be extremely sentimental but also ruthless and unforgiving. 

Within the broad culture of Fianna Fáil, Haughey and his associated hedonism nevertheless represented a decisive break with the moral puritanism and personal rectitude of the deValera era.  The Lynch-Colley-O&#039;Malley element, who regarded Haughey as a complete upstart, probably on snobbish class grounds, embodied the more &quot;traditional&quot; values of the party&#039;s founders.  

Haughey, as befitting such a polarising personality, was largely responsible for the fractious and faction-ridden state of the party for over a generation, from the retirement of Lemass to the start of the leadership of the emollient Bertie Ahern.  Since 1994 the party has never been so much at peace with itself and it is perhaps from that date that the legacy and influence of Charles J. Haughey began to fade from the political culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree with doug m that we won&#8217;t see his likes again and it&#8217;s tempting to regard Haughey as sui generis.  But part of the explanation lies in understanding the nature of the Fianna F&#225;il party, the politics of brokerage or clientilism Irish style, and perhaps the residual traces of a peasant political culture.  It&#8217;s well over 20 years ago since I read Paddy O&#8217;Carroll&#8217;s &#8220;cute hoors and sneaking regarders&#8221; article &#8211; I must dig it out again.</p>

	<p>Haughey&#8217;s defenders will say that &#8220;he did the state some service&#8221;.  His detractors will want to emphasise the taint of corruption and abuse of power associated with his governments.  There&#8217;s truth in both propositions.  He was exceptionally talented and took some daring policy initiatives that had lasting benefits.  While he was an opportunistic adventurer and consummate populist he did not try to remake Irish democracy on personalistic lines in the way Berlusconi attempted in Italy.</p>

	<p>Fianna F&#225;il was, and still is, the dominant party in the system and it owes its dominance to the way it used a political strategy/discourse based on nationalism and populism to become a cross-class political alliance of urban and rural, centre and periphery.  It managed to appear to be part of the Establishment while remaining outside of it.</p>

	<p>Haughey himself embodied all these contradictions in extremis.  He was a sophisticated European statesman of considerable personal wealth and a devoted patron of the arts.  He was also a gutty populist and beloved of the north Dublin working class.  He could be extremely sentimental but also ruthless and unforgiving.</p>

	<p>Within the broad culture of Fianna F&#225;il, Haughey and his associated hedonism nevertheless represented a decisive break with the moral puritanism and personal rectitude of the deValera era.  The Lynch-Colley-O&#8217;Malley element, who regarded Haughey as a complete upstart, probably on snobbish class grounds, embodied the more &#8220;traditional&#8221; values of the party&#8217;s founders.</p>

	<p>Haughey, as befitting such a polarising personality, was largely responsible for the fractious and faction-ridden state of the party for over a generation, from the retirement of Lemass to the start of the leadership of the emollient Bertie Ahern.  Since 1994 the party has never been so much at peace with itself and it is perhaps from that date that the legacy and influence of Charles J. Haughey began to fade from the political culture.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anacostia</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159188</link>
		<dc:creator>anacostia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159188</guid>
		<description>The complicit admiration for a corrupt figure is often aided by a persecution complex on the part of the sneaking regarders.  

Sure, he&#039;s trimming, but it&#039;s about time one of ours got some back.  Look, the powers that be have it out for us--you know we couldn&#039;t get ahead playing by the rules, when the rules are stacked against us.  So what if he takes a bit on the side--it&#039;s one in the eye for the man.

I watched this play out year after year with Marion Barry in DC.  No matter how corrupt he was, and no matter how much damage he was actually doing to the millions of black people who lived in DC (by creating a dysfunctional city, and by perpetuating the worst stereotypes), the people I talked with always forgave him.  They were sure the man was out to get him, that he was set up, that voting for MB was showing the white establishment that black people wouldn&#039;t be kept down.

I think the Irish have a tendency to play the underdog in this way as well.  Not a healthy tendency, esp. when it means you tolerate parasites in your midst.

Oh--and for extra points:  I am distantly related to Haughey, through my grandmother.  She always pronounced it as a monosyllable, &quot;hoy&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The complicit admiration for a corrupt figure is often aided by a persecution complex on the part of the sneaking regarders.</p>

	<p>Sure, he&#8217;s trimming, but it&#8217;s about time one of ours got some back.  Look, the powers that be have it out for us&#8212;you know we couldn&#8217;t get ahead playing by the rules, when the rules are stacked against us.  So what if he takes a bit on the side&#8212;it&#8217;s one in the eye for the man.</p>

	<p>I watched this play out year after year with Marion Barry in DC.  No matter how corrupt he was, and no matter how much damage he was actually doing to the millions of black people who lived in <span class="caps">DC </span>(by creating a dysfunctional city, and by perpetuating the worst stereotypes), the people I talked with always forgave him.  They were sure the man was out to get him, that he was set up, that voting for MB was showing the white establishment that black people wouldn&#8217;t be kept down.</p>

	<p>I think the Irish have a tendency to play the underdog in this way as well.  Not a healthy tendency, esp. when it means you tolerate parasites in your midst.</p>

	<p>Oh&#8212;and for extra points:  I am distantly related to Haughey, through my grandmother.  She always pronounced it as a monosyllable, &#8220;hoy&#8221;.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159185</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159185</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Hiberno-English (not Irish-English please)&lt;/i&gt;

How about &quot;Irish-Anglo&quot;?

&lt;i&gt; the important thing about “cute” is that it is (almost?) always used with “hoor”&lt;/i&gt;

I wouldn&#039;t say that. &quot;He&#039;s very cute&quot; or &quot;He&#039;s a cute one&quot; and the like are very common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Hiberno-English (not Irish-English please)</i></p>

	<p>How about &#8220;Irish-Anglo&#8221;?</p>

	<p><i> the important thing about &#8220;cute&#8221; is that it is (almost?) always used with &#8220;hoor&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that. &#8220;He&#8217;s very cute&#8221; or &#8220;He&#8217;s a cute one&#8221; and the like are very common.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159184</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159184</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Whatever faults Haughey may have had he was at least against British colonialism in Ireland which is more than can be said for the West Brits of Fine Gael.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, his preference for the Plain People of Ireland over the Brits  was why he lived like a country squire in a Georgian mansion. C&#039;mon diarmid, you can do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Whatever faults Haughey may have had he was at least against British colonialism in Ireland which is more than can be said for the West Brits of Fine Gael.</i></p>

	<p>Yeah, his preference for the Plain People of Ireland over the Brits  was why he lived like a country squire in a Georgian mansion. C&#8217;mon diarmid, you can do better.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Burke</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159182</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159182</guid>
		<description>(1) in Hiberno-English (not Irish-English please) the important thing about &quot;cute&quot; is that it is (almost?) always used with &quot;hoor&quot; which is a term of abuse as much of affection &amp; as with CJH there is admiration for as well as disapproval of the cute hoor
(2)  it pains me to say it but for all of the stink of corruption around CJH, no specific decision or act of CJ can be linked to any &quot;corrupt&quot; payment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>(1) in Hiberno-English (not Irish-English please) the important thing about &#8220;cute&#8221; is that it is (almost?) always used with &#8220;hoor&#8221; which is a term of abuse as much of affection &#038; as with <span class="caps">CJH</span> there is admiration for as well as disapproval of the cute hoor<br />
(2)  it pains me to say it but for all of the stink of corruption around <span class="caps">CJH</span>, no specific decision or act of CJ can be linked to any &#8220;corrupt&#8221; payment</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diarmid Logan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/comment-page-1/#comment-159177</link>
		<dc:creator>Diarmid Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/13/the-boss/#comment-159177</guid>
		<description>Whatever faults Haughey may have had he was at least against British colonialism in Ireland which is more than can be said for the West Brits of Fine Gael.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Whatever faults Haughey may have had he was at least against British colonialism in Ireland which is more than can be said for the West Brits of Fine Gael.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 02:50:59 -->
