Comments on: Blogofascism http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 26 May 2012 21:58:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jutlaw http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-2/#comment-161937 Jutlaw Thu, 29 Jun 2006 15:46:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161937 Funny thing is, you people talk about an internet movement, Kos gets 500k/day. perspective: World of Warcraft has 6,000,000 users logging on every day (and counting). The game is two years old. which is the "movement" and which is the fad? Kos and other bloggers are just authors. they're not movements. they do not claim any leadership roles (and no, issuing net warnings to politicians is not leadership). they have no platform, the don't organize marches ala MLK. they have fans, they have people who read their stuff. Kos may be a kerouac, but he's no steinem, he's no rand. he's not offered any ideas that will make him memorable beyond his mortality. when a blogger successfully runs for an office, well then, that will be a different story. I know lawyers who raise 100k for politicians at parties out on sag harbor, are they "movements"???? please. Funny thing is, you people talk about an internet movement, Kos gets 500k/day.

perspective:
World of Warcraft has 6,000,000 users logging on every day (and counting). The game is two years old. which is the “movement” and which is the fad?

Kos and other bloggers are just authors. they’re not movements. they do not claim any leadership roles (and no, issuing net warnings to politicians is not leadership). they have no platform, the don’t organize marches ala MLK. they have fans, they have people who read their stuff. Kos may be a kerouac, but he’s no steinem, he’s no rand. he’s not offered any ideas that will make him memorable beyond his mortality.
when a blogger successfully runs for an office, well then, that will be a different story. I know lawyers who raise 100k for politicians at parties out on sag harbor, are they “movements”????
please.

]]> By: tim gueguen http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-2/#comment-161551 tim gueguen Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:12:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161551 Hmmm, if some popular American left wing blogs might be a precursor of facism, what about actual facist blogs, which do exist. What are they precursors of? Hmmm, if some popular American left wing blogs might be a precursor of facism, what about actual facist blogs, which do exist. What are they precursors of?

]]> By: Captain Slack http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-2/#comment-161512 Captain Slack Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:29:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161512 Normally, I object to using "Democrat" as an adjective on the same grounds August Pollak <a href="http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2003_10_22.html" rel="nofollow">outlined</a>, but otto's reference to the "general right-wing Democrat approach" of ETLNR* may actually have constituted appropriate use of that particular linguistic atrocity. (* Even The Liberal New Republic.) Normally, I object to using “Democrat” as an adjective on the same grounds August Pollak outlined, but otto’s reference to the “general right-wing Democrat approach” of ETLNR* may actually have constituted appropriate use of that particular linguistic atrocity.

(* Even The Liberal New Republic.)

]]> By: Tyrone Slothrop http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161330 Tyrone Slothrop Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:07:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161330 <i>[I]f blogs do offer a challenge to the so-called MSM, it’s to the op-ed page and to the little political weeklies in the US: the ‘journals of opinion’. Too many of them survive on the bankroll of their proprietors. No wonder they see DKos as a threat. Thing is, if he were to be abducted by aliens tomorrow, the site would chug along. If Marty Peretz were to be taken into the mother ship? Not so much.</i> Martin Peretz spent his money to buy TNR so that he could foist his ideas on everyone else. Blogs don't threaten him in an economic sense -- you could say that he is losing money, but it is probably more apt to say that he is spending a lot of money to ensure that people have to listen to him -- but they do threaten his status. If anyone can publish their views on a blog, then he'll have to find some other way to buy status. [I]f blogs do offer a challenge to the so-called MSM, it’s to the op-ed page and to the little political weeklies in the US: the ‘journals of opinion’. Too many of them survive on the bankroll of their proprietors. No wonder they see DKos as a threat. Thing is, if he were to be abducted by aliens tomorrow, the site would chug along. If Marty Peretz were to be taken into the mother ship? Not so much.

Martin Peretz spent his money to buy TNR so that he could foist his ideas on everyone else. Blogs don’t threaten him in an economic sense—you could say that he is losing money, but it is probably more apt to say that he is spending a lot of money to ensure that people have to listen to him—but they do threaten his status. If anyone can publish their views on a blog, then he’ll have to find some other way to buy status.

]]> By: peBird http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161275 peBird Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:26:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161275 Hmmmm, Siegel - serious thesis? Don't think so. Hmmmm,

Siegel – serious thesis?

Don’t think so.

]]> By: Tangurena http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161254 Tangurena Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:49:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161254 The "left" lacks people who advocate murdering and exterminating people on the "other side." However, the "right" has plenty of people who advocate murder and extermination, starting with Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. When confronted, those three pretend that they were "only joking." I, for one, have never understood the "humor" in murdering large numbers of people. David Neiwert, over at <a href="http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Orcinus</a> has been keeping track of rightwing eliminationist rhetoric, as well as right wing hate groups. <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html" rel="nofollow">This essay</a> has some interesting points about why stories in the print media appear to be the same stilted stuff. And that the decline in readership of print media is structural, not cyclical. This administration has taken PR to new levels of infiltration of the media. One of the books I'm going to to be reading soon is <em>Lapdogs: How the press rolled over for bush</em>. I suspect another strong reason for the decline in print media has to do with their pandering to the right wing, and why every news outlet has been turning into a mini-Fox. The “left” lacks people who advocate murdering and exterminating people on the “other side.” However, the “right” has plenty of people who advocate murder and extermination, starting with Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage. When confronted, those three pretend that they were “only joking.” I, for one, have never understood the “humor” in murdering large numbers of people.

David Neiwert, over at Orcinus has been keeping track of rightwing eliminationist rhetoric, as well as right wing hate groups.

This essay has some interesting points about why stories in the print media appear to be the same stilted stuff. And that the decline in readership of print media is structural, not cyclical. This administration has taken PR to new levels of infiltration of the media.

One of the books I’m going to to be reading soon is Lapdogs: How the press rolled over for bush. I suspect another strong reason for the decline in print media has to do with their pandering to the right wing, and why every news outlet has been turning into a mini-Fox.

]]> By: previously pre http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161193 previously pre Mon, 26 Jun 2006 03:43:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161193 <i>It doesn’t make him a fascist, of course; but I suppose a fascist could’ve said something like this.</i> Personally, I fear them preadolescent fascists most of all. They just don't know the harm they're causing... As for his sharing of his perspective, years after the fact -- the way I see it is, he values working within a government system to change it, because he has seen what violent upheaval revolution does and it was not pretty. That's in keeping with his elect-Democrats mode, and it's not particularly fascist. It doesn’t make him a fascist, of course; but I suppose a fascist could’ve said something like this.

Personally, I fear them preadolescent fascists most of all. They just don’t know the harm they’re causing…

As for his sharing of his perspective, years after the fact—the way I see it is, he values working within a government system to change it, because he has seen what violent upheaval revolution does and it was not pretty. That’s in keeping with his elect-Democrats mode, and it’s not particularly fascist.

]]> By: Walt http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161103 Walt Sun, 25 Jun 2006 20:42:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161103 Fred: I've read word you said in your comment, solely to prove you wrong. Reverse psychology still works! Otto: Good point. Fred: I’ve read word you said in your comment, solely to prove you wrong. Reverse psychology still works!

Otto: Good point.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161033 abb1 Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:11:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161033 Wikipedia: <blockquote> According to the 1993 United Nations' Truth Commission report, over 96% of the human rights violations carried out during the war were committed by the Salvadoran military or the paramilitary death squads, while 3.5% were committed by the FMLN. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador </blockquote> Sorry, but one can only achieve so much purity down here on earth. Also, calling a coalition of five socialist parties 'Maoists' (apparently none of them was Maoist) is something he could only pick up from some right-wing (can I say 'fascist'?) propaganda rag. Wikipedia:

According to the 1993 United Nations’ Truth Commission report, over 96% of the human rights violations carried out during the war were committed by the Salvadoran military or the paramilitary death squads, while 3.5% were committed by the FMLN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Salvador

Sorry, but one can only achieve so much purity down here on earth. Also, calling a coalition of five socialist parties ‘Maoists’ (apparently none of them was Maoist) is something he could only pick up from some right-wing (can I say ‘fascist’?) propaganda rag.

]]> By: Rich Puchalsky http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161025 Rich Puchalsky Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:44:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161025 "There is no doubt that the rebels were the guys to root for." Good lecture, abb1. It's like the guy upthread who gets all huffy that the rebels committed only 15% of the atrocities. I'm glad that Kos is helping to remake a left where people don't expect you to root for those commiting only 15% of the atrocities. “There is no doubt that the rebels were the guys to root for.”

Good lecture, abb1. It’s like the guy upthread who gets all huffy that the rebels committed only 15% of the atrocities.

I’m glad that Kos is helping to remake a left where people don’t expect you to root for those commiting only 15% of the atrocities.

]]> By: fred lapides http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161020 fred lapides Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:23:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161020 Get old and you will know this: 1. we all see things not as they are but as we are 2. most people read only that stuff that agrees with their positions to begin with and thus reinforce believes rather than rethink them. 3. if you dislike what you read, skip it asap and move along...commenting on it never convinces those who belive or reject what it is you comment upon. 4. most of what is read is not the origianl source of anything and is but talmucic (so to speak) commentary. 5. ignore everything I have just posted. Get old and you will know this:
1. we all see things not as they are but as we are
2. most people read only that stuff that agrees with their positions to begin with and thus reinforce believes rather than rethink them.
3. if you dislike what you read, skip it asap and move along…commenting on it never convinces those who belive or reject what it is you comment upon.
4. most of what is read is not the origianl source of anything and is but talmucic (so to speak) commentary.
5. ignore everything I have just posted.

]]> By: Shawn http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161010 Shawn Sun, 25 Jun 2006 13:50:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161010 If KOS is representative of any leftist mass movement in the US then "strident" is not the word. Stupid is. Yup, what the US needs now is a left wing mass movement, just like the ones that worked so well in Russia, China and Cambodia. If KOS is representative of any leftist mass movement in the US then “strident” is not the word. Stupid is. Yup, what the US needs now is a left wing mass movement, just like the ones that worked so well in Russia, China and Cambodia.

]]> By: Jeffrey Kramer http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-161003 Jeffrey Kramer Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:49:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-161003 <i>...the blogosphere had the quality of fascism, which my dictionary defines as “any tendency toward or actual exercise of severe autocratic or dictatorial control” … insults, personal attacks, and even threats.</i> Siegel is confused; it wasn't Mussolini and Hitler who came to power through a combination of violence and sarcasm, it was the Piranha Brothers. …the blogosphere had the quality of fascism, which my dictionary defines as “any tendency toward or actual exercise of severe autocratic or dictatorial control” … insults, personal attacks, and even threats.

Siegel is confused; it wasn’t Mussolini and Hitler who came to power through a combination of violence and sarcasm, it was the Piranha Brothers.

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-160984 aaron Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:27:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-160984 (except, I imagine, his family.) (except, I imagine, his family.)

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2006/06/24/blogofascism/comment-page-1/#comment-160983 aaron Sun, 25 Jun 2006 09:26:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4827#comment-160983 Or, more likely, doesn't care about anything else. Or, more likely, doesn’t care about anything else.

]]>