<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: ICANN policy blegging</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:39:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-163067</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 07:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-163067</guid>
		<description>Tom, I don&#039;t know which events you&#039;re referring to, so all I would say is &#039;do your homework and make up your own mind&#039;. There are lots of blogs and sources about ICANN maintaned by lots of different people - not just the noisiest ones. You could start with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://icannwiki.org/Blogs&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;list&lt;/a&gt; of blogs provided by ICANNwiki that I linked to in the post. 

Susan, ICANN is actually working on &lt;a href=&quot;http://icann.org/topics/idn/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;internationalised domain names&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://icann.org/topics/gtld-strategy-area.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new TLDs&lt;/a&gt; right now (the issues have some overlap but aren&#039;t quite the same). People have always been able to create different TLDs themselves at different levels (their own discrete network, or locally through an ISP and at the browser level) - nothing new there. But these applications have limited use because they lack universal resolvability. FWIW I tend to think of universal resolvability as a public good, with all that entails.

As to a public choice analysis of ICANN, Milton Mueller started with a 2004 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262632985/sr=8-1/qid=1152084001/ref=sr_1_1/002-3919795-1828837?ie=UTF8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;book&lt;/a&gt; I linked to in the post above, using a fairly light-touch institutional economics approach. More recently, the part of ICANN I work for - the GNSO - has had a review done by the Government Dept. at LSE. I expect the report will bring at least some public choice analysis to bear on it. Otherwise, the field&#039;s wide open...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom, I don&#8217;t know which events you&#8217;re referring to, so all I would say is &#8216;do your homework and make up your own mind&#8217;. There are lots of blogs and sources about <span class="caps">ICANN</span> maintaned by lots of different people &#8211; not just the noisiest ones. You could start with the <a href="http://icannwiki.org/Blogs" rel="nofollow">list</a> of blogs provided by <span class="caps">ICAN</span>Nwiki that I linked to in the post.</p>

	<p>Susan, <span class="caps">ICANN</span> is actually working on <a href="http://icann.org/topics/idn/" rel="nofollow">internationalised domain names</a> and <a href="http://icann.org/topics/gtld-strategy-area.html" rel="nofollow">new TLDs</a> right now (the issues have some overlap but aren&#8217;t quite the same). People have always been able to create different TLDs themselves at different levels (their own discrete network, or locally through an <span class="caps">ISP</span> and at the browser level) &#8211; nothing new there. But these applications have limited use because they lack universal resolvability. <span class="caps">FWIW I</span> tend to think of universal resolvability as a public good, with all that entails.</p>

	<p>As to a public choice analysis of <span class="caps">ICANN</span>, Milton Mueller started with a 2004 <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262632985/sr=8-1/qid=1152084001/ref=sr_1_1/002-3919795-1828837?ie=UTF8" rel="nofollow">book</a> I linked to in the post above, using a fairly light-touch institutional economics approach. More recently, the part of <span class="caps">ICANN I</span> work for &#8211; the <span class="caps">GNSO </span>- has had a review done by the Government Dept. at <span class="caps">LSE</span>. I expect the report will bring at least some public choice analysis to bear on it. Otherwise, the field&#8217;s wide open&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Hudson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-163009</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-163009</guid>
		<description>Given the apparently dysfunctional ICANN governance process that&#039;s been publicly visible (e.g. Karl Auerbach), can you say anything to reassure those of us who thought to avoid ICANN altogether? I don&#039;t see ICANN doing much of anything &quot;on behalf of the global Internet community&quot; after those events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Given the apparently dysfunctional <span class="caps">ICANN</span> governance process that&#8217;s been publicly visible (e.g. Karl Auerbach), can you say anything to reassure those of us who thought to avoid <span class="caps">ICANN</span> altogether? I don&#8217;t see <span class="caps">ICANN</span> doing much of anything &#8220;on behalf of the global Internet community&#8221; after those events.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SusanC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162928</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:05:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162928</guid>
		<description>It occurs to me that the dysfunctional nature of ICANN might make an interesting case study in public choice economics.(Maybe one of the economists here would like to do it?)

e.g. one possible effect of adding .公司 as a TLD for Chinese commercial sites is that whoever is providing .公司 will gain a lot of registration fees from companies who want a domain name ending in .公司, and whoever is providing .com will loose a lot of registration fees from companies who don&#039;t need a .com now that they have a .公司. So someone has a strong financial incentive to lobby ICANN against adding 公司, even if it&#039;s in the &quot;public interest&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It occurs to me that the dysfunctional nature of <span class="caps">ICANN</span> might make an interesting case study in public choice economics.(Maybe one of the economists here would like to do it?)</p>

	<p>e.g. one possible effect of adding .公司 as a <span class="caps">TLD</span> for Chinese commercial sites is that whoever is providing .公司 will gain a lot of registration fees from companies who want a domain name ending in .公司, and whoever is providing .com will loose a lot of registration fees from companies who don&#8217;t need a .com now that they have a .公司. So someone has a strong financial incentive to lobby <span class="caps">ICANN</span> against adding 公司, even if it&#8217;s in the &#8220;public interest&#8221;&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SusanC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162924</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 15:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162924</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I’d argue that the really cool thing about the DNS is universial resolvability. Wherever you type in name.com, or name.co.uk, you’ll get to the same place.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;supposed&lt;/i&gt; to work that way. And many Internet applications don&#039;t work properly when it isn&#039;t true. For example, when you click on a link in a web page, you&#039;ld like to get the page that the author of the link intended you to get, not a completely unrelated page or an error message. For this to work, http://crookedtimber.org (for example) ought to resolve to the same thing both for the author of the page that contains it &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; for the viewer of the page.

To obtain this highly desirable property, you need some kind of committee to agree on what the top-level domains are and who they&#039;ve been delegated to. (Second level domains like .uk can have a regional body to decide what goes in them etc). This is where ICANN comes in.


An important technical point: any end-user can reconfigure their computer to ignore ICANN&#039;s top level domains and use an alternative set provided by whoever they feel like. Of course, because you want to see the same TLDs as everyone else, there&#039;s little point in doing this on your own. More to the point, an ISP can reconfigure their DNS so that all their customers (by default) see a different set of top level domains.

So ICANN&#039;s real source of authority is that sticking with them is less painful than switching to an alternative (for customers, and ISP who have to deal with customer complaints that &quot;the Internet is broken&quot;), and most national goverments have not required the ISPs in their country to use non-ICANN TLDs.

Unfortunately, ICANN&#039;s decisions on which TLDs to add have upset sufficiently many major players that the consensus is starting to fall apart (or fail to come together in the first place), and major ISPs are adding new TLD&#039;s without ICANN&#039;s permission. Technically, they can do this, and ICANN has no ability to stop them. If enough of them do this, ICANN is toast.

For example: customers of Chinese ISPs get to see non-ICANN TLDs like .公司. Advantage of this: Chinese-speaking Internet users in China can enter URLs in their own language. Downside: links to these URLs are broken for Chinese-speaking users browsing the web from anywhere else. If ICANN had managed to agree on some Chinese-character TLDs we could have had Chinese-character URLs that work everywhere.

The Chinese TLD issue isn&#039;t very visible for English speaking users in the US. US users would see the impact more if (for example) their ISPs started adding a .xxx domain for porn sites without ICANN approval.

Steve Murdoch has a good explanation of what the Chinese ISPs have done:


&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/03/01/new-chinese-tlds/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Chinese TLDs&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/03/09/bbc-article-on-new-chinese-tlds/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC article on new Chinese TLDs&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><br />
I&#8217;d argue that the really cool thing about the <span class="caps">DNS</span> is universial resolvability. Wherever you type in name.com, or name.co.uk, you&#8217;ll get to the same place.<br />
</blockquote></p>

	<p>Well, it&#8217;s <i>supposed</i> to work that way. And many Internet applications don&#8217;t work properly when it isn&#8217;t true. For example, when you click on a link in a web page, you&#8217;ld like to get the page that the author of the link intended you to get, not a completely unrelated page or an error message. For this to work, <a href="http://crookedtimber.org" rel="nofollow">http://crookedtimber.org</a> (for example) ought to resolve to the same thing both for the author of the page that contains it <i>and</i> for the viewer of the page.</p>

	<p>To obtain this highly desirable property, you need some kind of committee to agree on what the top-level domains are and who they&#8217;ve been delegated to. (Second level domains like .uk can have a regional body to decide what goes in them etc). This is where <span class="caps">ICANN</span> comes in.</p>


	<p>An important technical point: any end-user can reconfigure their computer to ignore <span class="caps">ICANN</span>&#8217;s top level domains and use an alternative set provided by whoever they feel like. Of course, because you want to see the same TLDs as everyone else, there&#8217;s little point in doing this on your own. More to the point, an <span class="caps">ISP</span> can reconfigure their <span class="caps">DNS</span> so that all their customers (by default) see a different set of top level domains.</p>

	<p>So <span class="caps">ICANN</span>&#8217;s real source of authority is that sticking with them is less painful than switching to an alternative (for customers, and <span class="caps">ISP</span> who have to deal with customer complaints that &#8220;the Internet is broken&#8221;), and most national goverments have not required the ISPs in their country to use non-ICANN TLDs.</p>

	<p>Unfortunately, <span class="caps">ICANN</span>&#8217;s decisions on which TLDs to add have upset sufficiently many major players that the consensus is starting to fall apart (or fail to come together in the first place), and major ISPs are adding new <span class="caps">TLD</span>&#8217;s without <span class="caps">ICANN</span>&#8217;s permission. Technically, they can do this, and <span class="caps">ICANN</span> has no ability to stop them. If enough of them do this, <span class="caps">ICANN</span> is toast.</p>

	<p>For example: customers of Chinese ISPs get to see non-ICANN TLDs like .公司. Advantage of this: Chinese-speaking Internet users in China can enter URLs in their own language. Downside: links to these URLs are broken for Chinese-speaking users browsing the web from anywhere else. If <span class="caps">ICANN</span> had managed to agree on some Chinese-character TLDs we could have had Chinese-character URLs that work everywhere.</p>

	<p>The Chinese <span class="caps">TLD</span> issue isn&#8217;t very visible for English speaking users in the US. US users would see the impact more if (for example) their ISPs started adding a .xxx domain for porn sites without <span class="caps">ICANN</span> approval.</p>

	<p>Steve Murdoch has a good explanation of what the Chinese ISPs have done:</p>


	<p><a HREF="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/03/01/new-chinese-tlds/" rel="nofollow">New Chinese TLDs</a><br />
<a HREF="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/03/09/bbc-article-on-new-chinese-tlds/" rel="nofollow"><span class="caps">BBC</span> article on new Chinese TLDs</a></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162867</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 07:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162867</guid>
		<description>Thanks, James.  Not to be too pedantic or anything, but cybercrime isn&#039;t in the purview of the OECD at all (though there are guidelines on privacy and security that OECD members are supposed to honour). The Council of Europe passed a Convention on Cybercrime a few years ago, which included broad provisions for mutual assistance between states. As far as I know, it hasn&#039;t been ratified by so many member states yet (last I heard, the US hadn&#039;t, but that may have changed). Essentially, computer related crime is handled bi-laterally between states and doesn&#039;t have an organisation overseeing it. Though Interpol has some capabilities in this area. 

But yes, one of the problems we have is that some countries think ICANN does a lot more than it actually does. 

Jane, there are two types of top level domain; generic (e.g. .net) and country code (e.g. .uk). The US has its own country code, .us; it&#039;s just not used as much in the US as generic TLDs are. There are a lot of good reasons for using cc&#039;s. Some of them are legal; amazon in Europe only uses .uk, .de and .fr because it only wants to be captured by consumer protection legislation in those countries. Some are cultural/path dependent; .de in Germany and .uk in the UK are used by more businesses there than any generic TLDs are. 

Nationality is almost never irrelevant, especially when you&#039;re running a business with a defined market. I&#039;d argue that the really cool thing about the DNS is universial resolvability. Wherever you type in name.com, or name.co.uk, you&#039;ll get to the same place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, James.  Not to be too pedantic or anything, but cybercrime isn&#8217;t in the purview of the <span class="caps">OECD</span> at all (though there are guidelines on privacy and security that <span class="caps">OECD</span> members are supposed to honour). The Council of Europe passed a Convention on Cybercrime a few years ago, which included broad provisions for mutual assistance between states. As far as I know, it hasn&#8217;t been ratified by so many member states yet (last I heard, the US hadn&#8217;t, but that may have changed). Essentially, computer related crime is handled bi-laterally between states and doesn&#8217;t have an organisation overseeing it. Though Interpol has some capabilities in this area.</p>

	<p>But yes, one of the problems we have is that some countries think <span class="caps">ICANN</span> does a lot more than it actually does.</p>

	<p>Jane, there are two types of top level domain; generic (e.g. .net) and country code (e.g. .uk). The US has its own country code, .us; it&#8217;s just not used as much in the US as generic TLDs are. There are a lot of good reasons for using cc&#8217;s. Some of them are legal; amazon in Europe only uses .uk, .de and .fr because it only wants to be captured by consumer protection legislation in those countries. Some are cultural/path dependent; .de in Germany and .uk in the UK are used by more businesses there than any generic TLDs are.</p>

	<p>Nationality is almost never irrelevant, especially when you&#8217;re running a business with a defined market. I&#8217;d argue that the really cool thing about the <span class="caps">DNS</span> is universial resolvability. Wherever you type in name.com, or name.co.uk, you&#8217;ll get to the same place.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jane Shevtsov</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162839</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Shevtsov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162839</guid>
		<description>Why do most websites outside the US have a country suffix in their names? I can see how this would be useful for some businesses, but otherwise it seems to defy one of the coolest things about the Internet -- that it makes nationality irrelevant. Plus, it would seem to say that US affiliation is assumed and anything else is an aberration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why do most websites outside the US have a country suffix in their names? I can see how this would be useful for some businesses, but otherwise it seems to defy one of the coolest things about the Internet&#8212;that it makes nationality irrelevant. Plus, it would seem to say that US affiliation is assumed and anything else is an aberration.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Antoni Jaume</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162755</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoni Jaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162755</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if thats linkrot proof, but tha&#039;s the url: 
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1810871,00.html

DSW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I don&#8217;t know if thats linkrot proof, but tha&#8217;s the url:<br />
<a href="http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1810871,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1810871,00.html</a></p>

	<p><span class="caps">DSW</span></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Antoni Jaume</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162747</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoni Jaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162747</guid>
		<description>&quot; Sample non-ICANN problem: if the USA abandons Net neutrality in pricing, what should other countries do?&quot;

Well the attack has begun in the UK, as per a Guardian article published yesterday. I quite expected it.

DSW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8221; Sample non-ICANN problem: if the <span class="caps">USA</span> abandons Net neutrality in pricing, what should other countries do?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Well the attack has begun in the UK, as per a Guardian article published yesterday. I quite expected it.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">DSW</span></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Wimberley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/03/icann-policy-blegging/comment-page-1/#comment-162710</link>
		<dc:creator>James Wimberley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4872#comment-162710</guid>
		<description>One reason ICANN is &quot;uniquely exposed&quot; is that a lot of people who should know better think it runs the Internet. It doesn&#039;t, only the name system - which is important enough. Who&#039;s in charge of the physical infrastructure and technology? Telcos, the research community, and the ITU. Who&#039;s in charge of the protocols? The IETF and W3C. Who&#039;s in charge of security? Beats me. Who&#039;s in charge of cybercrime? National cops and conventional intergovernmental organisations like the Council of Europe and OECD. Who&#039;s in charge of strategic development and the funding model? Nobody, which has been a blessing up to now - but may be a growing problem in the future, as the Internet is one the core public infrastructures of our time. Sample non-ICANN problem: if the USA abandons Net neutrality in pricing, what should other countries do?
Enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One reason <span class="caps">ICANN</span> is &#8220;uniquely exposed&#8221; is that a lot of people who should know better think it runs the Internet. It doesn&#8217;t, only the name system &#8211; which is important enough. Who&#8217;s in charge of the physical infrastructure and technology? Telcos, the research community, and the <span class="caps">ITU</span>. Who&#8217;s in charge of the protocols? The <span class="caps">IETF</span> and <span class="caps">W3C</span>. Who&#8217;s in charge of security? Beats me. Who&#8217;s in charge of cybercrime? National cops and conventional intergovernmental organisations like the Council of Europe and <span class="caps">OECD</span>. Who&#8217;s in charge of strategic development and the funding model? Nobody, which has been a blessing up to now &#8211; but may be a growing problem in the future, as the Internet is one the core public infrastructures of our time. Sample non-ICANN problem: if the <span class="caps">USA</span> abandons Net neutrality in pricing, what should other countries do?<br />
Enjoy.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 06:25:41 -->
