<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Engerland, Engerland</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:39:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: musteion</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164615</link>
		<dc:creator>musteion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164615</guid>
		<description>I find all the hand-wringing and school-marming over names a little silly. You&#039;ll never please everyone and are bound to piss of someone, sometime. 

I say &quot;the UK,&quot; mostly out of habit, and I don&#039;t plan to change. After all, I don&#039;t like it when I&#039;m called a &quot;Yank,&quot; either, but if I can tolerate it, the rest of the world can tolerate &quot;UK.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I find all the hand-wringing and school-marming over names a little silly. You&#8217;ll never please everyone and are bound to piss of someone, sometime.</p>

	<p>I say &#8220;the UK,&#8221; mostly out of habit, and I don&#8217;t plan to change. After all, I don&#8217;t like it when I&#8217;m called a &#8220;Yank,&#8221; either, but if I can tolerate it, the rest of the world can tolerate &#8220;UK.&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164511</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164511</guid>
		<description>Which &#039;Americans&#039; do you mean are the worst offenders, Maria? North Americans, Central Americans or South Americans? Or were you referring just to that oversized minority of Americans, people from the United States?

(Perhaps not. A Google search shows that &quot;londres, inglaterra&quot; is much more popular than &quot;londres, reino unido&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Which &#8216;Americans&#8217; do you mean are the worst offenders, Maria? North Americans, Central Americans or South Americans? Or were you referring just to that oversized minority of Americans, people from the United States?</p>

	<p>(Perhaps not. A Google search shows that &#8220;londres, inglaterra&#8221; is much more popular than &#8220;londres, reino unido&#8221;.)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brooksfoe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164504</link>
		<dc:creator>brooksfoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164504</guid>
		<description>I generally refer to the entirety of the United States as &quot;New York&quot;, and no one seems to object.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I generally refer to the entirety of the United States as &#8220;New York&#8221;, and no one seems to object.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vanya</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164491</link>
		<dc:creator>vanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164491</guid>
		<description>How provincial of Maria to assume that Americans are the worst offenders. In fact Germans, Italians, French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, etc., all very commonly use &quot;England&quot; as the default word for the United Kingdom. Look on Google - &quot;Londres, Angleterre&quot; is not uncommon. It&#039;s no different than the use of &quot;Russia&quot; as a synonym for the &quot;USSR.&quot;  Technically it is of course inaccurate, but you could argue that there is a deeper truth in using &quot;Russia&quot; or &quot;England&quot; to name these countries because these words bear witness to the fact that these &quot;Unions&quot;, be they of kingdoms or socialist republics, are not really voluntary at all but are the product of imperial conquest by one nation of its neighbors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How provincial of Maria to assume that Americans are the worst offenders. In fact Germans, Italians, French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, etc., all very commonly use &#8220;England&#8221; as the default word for the United Kingdom. Look on Google &#8211; &#8220;Londres, Angleterre&#8221; is not uncommon. It&#8217;s no different than the use of &#8220;Russia&#8221; as a synonym for the &#8220;USSR.&#8221;  Technically it is of course inaccurate, but you could argue that there is a deeper truth in using &#8220;Russia&#8221; or &#8220;England&#8221; to name these countries because these words bear witness to the fact that these &#8220;Unions&#8221;, be they of kingdoms or socialist republics, are not really voluntary at all but are the product of imperial conquest by one nation of its neighbors.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Noel Maurer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164477</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel Maurer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164477</guid>
		<description>Christopher M:  I&#039;d like to back up Michael Connolly, by saying that ARNG personnel sent overseas still use &quot;the States,&quot; as in &quot;back in the States,&quot; to refer to the U.S.  (Regular military also use it.)  So do tourists in the Caribbean and expats in Mexico, neither of whom are, in general, particularly cosmopolitan.  It&#039;s not a class thing; it&#039;s just that &quot;the States&quot; is a purely geographic term.  When you&#039;re in the States, most of your references to the &quot;United States&quot; or &quot;America&quot; will refer to something other than a mere geographic expanse.

Cala:  The United States of America adopted the name &quot;United States&quot; before the other countries of the Americas did.  The other nations adopted the phrase out of admiration for the U.S. federal structure, strange as that might seem today.  Only Mexico still retains the appellation.  Brazil, Colombia, and Venezuela have abandoned it, and there is a half-serious movement to change Mexico&#039;s name to the simple &quot;Mexican Republic.&quot;

Everyone:  speaking as someone who taught at a Mexican university for seven years, I can tell you that you can&#039;t win the America/United States battle.  Nobody will ever accuse you of appropriating the name of their country when you say &quot;estadounidense&quot; to refer to Americans; but many will laugh at you and happily talk about &quot;americanos.&quot;  On the other hand, for every person like that, there will be another ready to express irritation at the use of the continent&#039;s name to refer to a single country.  (And yes, people do, if relatively rarely, use &quot;América&quot; to refer to the entire Western Hemisphere.)  

Usually I&#039;d choose to be mocked by the former group rather than have to deal with the annoying irritation of the second.  After all, the name &quot;United States of America&quot; came about because nobody could decide what to call the new federation --- viz &quot;District of Columbia&quot; --- and the expansive language about the &quot;independence of America&quot; in the Articles of Confederation.  It is what it is; objections from Latin Americans rarely come across as particularly serious.  If the U.S. becomes less dominant (or arrogant) in the future, I&#039;d bet good money that the whole &quot;controversy&quot; will quickly seem fusty and incomrehensible.  

Not at all like the England/Britain/U.K. controversy at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Christopher M:  I&#8217;d like to back up Michael Connolly, by saying that <span class="caps">ARNG</span> personnel sent overseas still use &#8220;the States,&#8221; as in &#8220;back in the States,&#8221; to refer to the U.S.  (Regular military also use it.)  So do tourists in the Caribbean and expats in Mexico, neither of whom are, in general, particularly cosmopolitan.  It&#8217;s not a class thing; it&#8217;s just that &#8220;the States&#8221; is a purely geographic term.  When you&#8217;re in the States, most of your references to the &#8220;United States&#8221; or &#8220;America&#8221; will refer to something other than a mere geographic expanse.</p>

	<p>Cala:  The United States of America adopted the name &#8220;United States&#8221; before the other countries of the Americas did.  The other nations adopted the phrase out of admiration for the U.S. federal structure, strange as that might seem today.  Only Mexico still retains the appellation.  Brazil, Colombia, and Venezuela have abandoned it, and there is a half-serious movement to change Mexico&#8217;s name to the simple &#8220;Mexican Republic.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Everyone:  speaking as someone who taught at a Mexican university for seven years, I can tell you that you can&#8217;t win the America/United States battle.  Nobody will ever accuse you of appropriating the name of their country when you say &#8220;estadounidense&#8221; to refer to Americans; but many will laugh at you and happily talk about &#8220;americanos.&#8221;  On the other hand, for every person like that, there will be another ready to express irritation at the use of the continent&#8217;s name to refer to a single country.  (And yes, people do, if relatively rarely, use &#8220;Am&#233;rica&#8221; to refer to the entire Western Hemisphere.)</p>

	<p>Usually I&#8217;d choose to be mocked by the former group rather than have to deal with the annoying irritation of the second.  After all, the name &#8220;United States of America&#8221; came about because nobody could decide what to call the new federation&#8212;- viz &#8220;District of Columbia&#8221;&#8212;- and the expansive language about the &#8220;independence of America&#8221; in the Articles of Confederation.  It is what it is; objections from Latin Americans rarely come across as particularly serious.  If the U.S. becomes less dominant (or arrogant) in the future, I&#8217;d bet good money that the whole &#8220;controversy&#8221; will quickly seem fusty and incomrehensible.</p>

	<p>Not at all like the England/Britain/U.K. controversy at all.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric H</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164476</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164476</guid>
		<description>Wow, that&#039;s a lot of energy wasted worrying what you and other people call yourselves.

Estadounidense is a common term in Latin regions for UnitedStatesian, which is a silly, silly word.  When the rest of the world stops calling us Americans, maybe we will, too.  There isn&#039;t a lot of ambiguity - do Brazilians really get frightened when they hear the &quot;Death to America&quot; chants?  To be technically correct, it might have to be United States of American, which is equally silly.  We used to refer to ourselves by our home state, but as the 19th and 20th centuries progressed, it became less of a federal republic and more of a unified national state despite the best intentions and efforts of the Constitutional authors.

Maria, you might be interested to know that in the Civil War, southerners referred to battles by the nearest town or city while the northerners used the nearest body of water.  Today, they still don&#039;t agree on it, if that&#039;s any indication of how careful you might have to be when throwing that &quot;Yankee&quot; around.  It&#039;s always best to find out what people call themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wow, that&#8217;s a lot of energy wasted worrying what you and other people call yourselves.</p>

	<p>Estadounidense is a common term in Latin regions for UnitedStatesian, which is a silly, silly word.  When the rest of the world stops calling us Americans, maybe we will, too.  There isn&#8217;t a lot of ambiguity &#8211; do Brazilians really get frightened when they hear the &#8220;Death to America&#8221; chants?  To be technically correct, it might have to be United States of American, which is equally silly.  We used to refer to ourselves by our home state, but as the 19th and 20th centuries progressed, it became less of a federal republic and more of a unified national state despite the best intentions and efforts of the Constitutional authors.</p>

	<p>Maria, you might be interested to know that in the Civil War, southerners referred to battles by the nearest town or city while the northerners used the nearest body of water.  Today, they still don&#8217;t agree on it, if that&#8217;s any indication of how careful you might have to be when throwing that &#8220;Yankee&#8221; around.  It&#8217;s always best to find out what people call themselves.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164430</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164430</guid>
		<description>Not my personal opinion, no, just a phrase that I’ve heard somewhere about the place as a mnemonic on what actually make up the various groupings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not my personal opinion, no, just a phrase that I&#8217;ve heard somewhere about the place as a mnemonic on what actually make up the various groupings.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164404</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164404</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But, rolling about the back of my mind is the idea that it’s Scotland that puts the “Great ” into Britain.&lt;/i&gt;

Is that merely a matter of your personal opinion, or...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>But, rolling about the back of my mind is the idea that it&#8217;s Scotland that puts the &#8220;Great &#8221; into Britain.</i></p>

	<p>Is that merely a matter of your personal opinion, or&#8230;?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164403</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164403</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;add the six counties of NI (or Ulster to choice) to get the UK.&lt;/i&gt;

There are nine counties in Ulster, not six. Get yourself an atlas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>add the six counties of <span class="caps">NI </span>(or Ulster to choice) to get the UK.</i></p>

	<p>There are nine counties in Ulster, not six. Get yourself an atlas!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Connolly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164402</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Connolly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164402</guid>
		<description>Christopher @ 40:
I grew up in an Air Force family.  We were posted to Japan in the early 60&#039;s and all the Americans there - Army, Navy, Air Force - referred to the States as the States.  That included the Texans, who tended to set the tone in the Air Force.  We also used the word &quot;stateside.&quot;  My uncle spent 20 years in Latin America working for the State Department and he also used these terms.  He was never posted to Europe.

As for &quot;England,&quot; I have often wondered if this usage stems from the fact that Americans formed their linguistic habits with respect to the mother country prior to the Act of Union.  I&#039;m a New Englander (of mixed Scots, English, Irish, and Scandinavian parentage) - and we pretty much set the parameters for thinking and talking about these things.  It has taken 20 years of conscious effort to minimize my usage of the term &quot;England.&quot;  In the process, I noticed that I thought of Scotland and Northern Ireland as separate countries.  When saying &quot;England,&quot; I was visualizing England and maybe Wales.

Two New England friends described hiking in the rain along Hadrian&#039;s wall in the 70&#039;s near the site of the last Scots-English battle and meeting an old Scot who manned a little guard house.  He took them in and made a pot of tea.  When he learned that they were Americans, he exclaimed, &quot;Ah! Ye got away! Ye got away!&quot;  They understood instantly, just as I did in the telling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Christopher @ 40:<br />
I grew up in an Air Force family.  We were posted to Japan in the early 60&#8217;s and all the Americans there &#8211; Army, Navy, Air Force &#8211; referred to the States as the States.  That included the Texans, who tended to set the tone in the Air Force.  We also used the word &#8220;stateside.&#8221;  My uncle spent 20 years in Latin America working for the State Department and he also used these terms.  He was never posted to Europe.</p>

	<p>As for &#8220;England,&#8221; I have often wondered if this usage stems from the fact that Americans formed their linguistic habits with respect to the mother country prior to the Act of Union.  I&#8217;m a New Englander (of mixed Scots, English, Irish, and Scandinavian parentage) &#8211; and we pretty much set the parameters for thinking and talking about these things.  It has taken 20 years of conscious effort to minimize my usage of the term &#8220;England.&#8221;  In the process, I noticed that I thought of Scotland and Northern Ireland as separate countries.  When saying &#8220;England,&#8221; I was visualizing England and maybe Wales.</p>

	<p>Two New England friends described hiking in the rain along Hadrian&#8217;s wall in the 70&#8217;s near the site of the last Scots-English battle and meeting an old Scot who manned a little guard house.  He took them in and made a pot of tea.  When he learned that they were Americans, he exclaimed, &#8220;Ah! Ye got away! Ye got away!&#8221;  They understood instantly, just as I did in the telling.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Worstall</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164312</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Worstall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 07:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164312</guid>
		<description>#74. As far as I’m aware there is a difference between the words used for the political boundaries andthe geographic ones. I’m entirely happy to accept your meaning of Britain and Great Britain as geographic words.

But, rolling about the back of my mind is the idea that it’s Scotland that puts the &quot;Great &quot; into Britain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#74. As far as I&#8217;m aware there is a difference between the words used for the political boundaries andthe geographic ones. I&#8217;m entirely happy to accept your meaning of Britain and Great Britain as geographic words.</p>

	<p>But, rolling about the back of my mind is the idea that it&#8217;s Scotland that puts the &#8220;Great &#8221; into Britain.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jimbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164302</link>
		<dc:creator>jimbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Jul 2006 04:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164302</guid>
		<description>OK, so help a bastard American out: from what I&#039;ve been able to glean, if I want to maximally annoy people, i would call a resident of the English parts of the Briitish Isles &quot;British&quot; or &quot;a Brit&quot;, or those of Wales or Scotland &quot;English&quot;?  Help me out, here, people, I&#039;m planning a trip in September and want to make the worst impression possible.

(Oh, and all those non-US &quot;Americans&quot; can go suck it.  That&#039;s what the Monroe Doctrine was all about - we get to be Americans, and you get to have your revolutions every 30 years and rename your countries to whatever is fashionable at the time.  Of course, I&#039;m ignoring Canadians here, but then, that&#039;s what they&#039;re there for...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, so help a bastard American out: from what I&#8217;ve been able to glean, if I want to maximally annoy people, i would call a resident of the English parts of the Briitish Isles &#8220;British&#8221; or &#8220;a Brit&#8221;, or those of Wales or Scotland &#8220;English&#8221;?  Help me out, here, people, I&#8217;m planning a trip in September and want to make the worst impression possible.</p>

	<p>(Oh, and all those non-US &#8220;Americans&#8221; can go suck it.  That&#8217;s what the Monroe Doctrine was all about &#8211; we get to be Americans, and you get to have your revolutions every 30 years and rename your countries to whatever is fashionable at the time.  Of course, I&#8217;m ignoring Canadians here, but then, that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re there for&#8230;)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ajax</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164276</link>
		<dc:creator>Ajax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 23:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164276</guid>
		<description>It is entirely typical of the constitutional mis-mash of the UK that not even the names of the constituent parts or of the whole itself are clear to its subjects.  That the new wife of the heir to the throne could be given a completely new title (&quot;Princess Consort&quot;) as if it had always existed, is another example of this make-it-up-as-you-go-along approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is entirely typical of the constitutional mis-mash of the UK that not even the names of the constituent parts or of the whole itself are clear to its subjects.  That the new wife of the heir to the throne could be given a completely new title (&#8220;Princess Consort&#8221;) as if it had always existed, is another example of this make-it-up-as-you-go-along approach.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aidan Maconachy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164251</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan Maconachy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164251</guid>
		<description>Thought provoking post Maria.

I perked up when you mentioned the N.Irish crew. Use of language in Ulster is very touchy indeed. From the Irish nationalist perspective, it is the dreaded Engerland rather than Britain that is the target. Scotland and Wales also have their own nationalists and so there is common cause against the Crown. 

I was in the Slugger O&#039;Toole blog the other day and there was a long thread underway debating the use of the term &quot;Ulster&quot;. It was generally agreed that Ulster approximates the celtic Ulaidh so can be regarded as a legitimate Irish term. This is not the case though with the term &quot;Northern Ireland&quot; which suggests British (read English) legitimacy. My Republican mates always opt instead for &quot;the north of Ireland&quot; which suggests a geographic entity rather a political domain.

In Ulster, the London word also comes up. Protestants generally keep &quot;London&quot; in Londonderry, whereas Catholics opt for &quot;Derry&quot;. Language does indeed have a lot of power.

I&#039;m living in Canada now, but I have to admit to resenting the dominance of England when I was growing up in Belfast. Since you mentioned footie, it should be noted that N. Ireland put the boot to England when they played us at Windsor Park in Belfast prior to the world cup. We won 1-0 and Rooney was about ready to beat up the ref and Beckham!

Both Prods and Catholics experienced delicious schadenfreude  at the dismay of the Engerlaaaaaand supporters. Its not that we don&#039;t like you lot ... just that we like to see you taking a pasting now and then :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thought provoking post Maria.</p>

	<p>I perked up when you mentioned the N.Irish crew. Use of language in Ulster is very touchy indeed. From the Irish nationalist perspective, it is the dreaded Engerland rather than Britain that is the target. Scotland and Wales also have their own nationalists and so there is common cause against the Crown.</p>

	<p>I was in the Slugger O&#8217;Toole blog the other day and there was a long thread underway debating the use of the term &#8220;Ulster&#8221;. It was generally agreed that Ulster approximates the celtic Ulaidh so can be regarded as a legitimate Irish term. This is not the case though with the term &#8220;Northern Ireland&#8221; which suggests British (read English) legitimacy. My Republican mates always opt instead for &#8220;the north of Ireland&#8221; which suggests a geographic entity rather a political domain.</p>

	<p>In Ulster, the London word also comes up. Protestants generally keep &#8220;London&#8221; in Londonderry, whereas Catholics opt for &#8220;Derry&#8221;. Language does indeed have a lot of power.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m living in Canada now, but I have to admit to resenting the dominance of England when I was growing up in Belfast. Since you mentioned footie, it should be noted that N. Ireland put the boot to England when they played us at Windsor Park in Belfast prior to the world cup. We won 1-0 and Rooney was about ready to beat up the ref and Beckham!</p>

	<p>Both Prods and Catholics experienced delicious schadenfreude  at the dismay of the Engerlaaaaaand supporters. Its not that we don&#8217;t like you lot &#8230; just that we like to see you taking a pasting now and then :)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob Christensen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/13/engerland-engerland/comment-page-2/#comment-164248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4903#comment-164248</guid>
		<description>#72: Wikipedia has &quot;Great Britain&quot; &lt;em&gt;(as a geographical term) is the largest and most populous island of the archipelago&lt;/em&gt; (Entry in &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_%28terminology%29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia: British Isles - Terminology&lt;/a&gt;. As I recall it, the &quot;Great&quot; in Great Britain comes as a reference to &quot;Little&quot; Britain or Brittany. Or Bretagne, if you want it in French.

In any event: To foreigners the UK has always been a bit of a constitutional mess (I suppose that you may call this a typical English understatement).

One the one hand, it has traditionally been one of the most centralised European (sic!) countries being run from London, &lt;em&gt;England&lt;/em&gt;.

On the other hand Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland have not only had separate regional/national identities - they have also even before the present round of devolution been covered by separate legislation in a number of instances.

I think it is obvious why foreigners have a hard time distinguishing &lt;em&gt;English&lt;/em&gt; from &lt;em&gt;British&lt;/em&gt; even if we immediately recognise the Welsh, the ... ahm ... Scots and the Irish. It is perhaps one of the stranger ironies of having an empire that you lose part of your identity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#72: Wikipedia has &#8220;Great Britain&#8221; <em>(as a geographical term) is the largest and most populous island of the archipelago</em> (Entry in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_%28terminology%29" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia: British Isles &#8211; Terminology</a>. As I recall it, the &#8220;Great&#8221; in Great Britain comes as a reference to &#8220;Little&#8221; Britain or Brittany. Or Bretagne, if you want it in French.</p>

	<p>In any event: To foreigners the UK has always been a bit of a constitutional mess (I suppose that you may call this a typical English understatement).</p>

	<p>One the one hand, it has traditionally been one of the most centralised European (sic!) countries being run from London, <em>England</em>.</p>

	<p>On the other hand Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland have not only had separate regional/national identities &#8211; they have also even before the present round of devolution been covered by separate legislation in a number of instances.</p>

	<p>I think it is obvious why foreigners have a hard time distinguishing <em>English</em> from <em>British</em> even if we immediately recognise the Welsh, the &#8230; ahm &#8230; Scots and the Irish. It is perhaps one of the stranger ironies of having an empire that you lose part of your identity.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 06:53:28 -->
