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	<title>Comments on: The gendered aspects of academia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Dick Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164922</link>
		<dc:creator>Dick Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164922</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re the Zionist who crowed about your wonderful trip to Israel. You&#039;ve heard what the Nazis did to Guernica: the Israelis hit Saint Therese Hospital in Lebanon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re the Zionist who crowed about your wonderful trip to Israel. You&#8217;ve heard what the Nazis did to Guernica: the Israelis hit Saint Therese Hospital in Lebanon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Christensen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164877</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164877</guid>
		<description>@7: The observation is that birth rates are lower in countries like Italy, Spain and Germany than in the Scandinavian countries. Social policy research has (surprise!) concentrated on factors like tax policy, social insurance, the availability of child care and so on.

On an individual level the connection is likely to be that &quot;traditional families&quot; have more children than &quot;modern families&quot; in &quot;conservative&quot; systems - I&#039;m using the termonology which is common in social policy research - but that the share of traditional families compared to modern ones is falling. In &quot;social democratic&quot; systems there would be fewer &quot;traditional&quot; families and the gap between the number of children would be smaller.

Btw: I noted that the author of one of the posts, that the original post in this thread linked to, complained about the difficulties of being (and wanting to be) a full-time mother while at the same time doing academic work. A Scandinavian mother would leave her child/ren in day care after the end of parental leave and go on with her work. End of story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@7: The observation is that birth rates are lower in countries like Italy, Spain and Germany than in the Scandinavian countries. Social policy research has (surprise!) concentrated on factors like tax policy, social insurance, the availability of child care and so on.</p>

	<p>On an individual level the connection is likely to be that &#8220;traditional families&#8221; have more children than &#8220;modern families&#8221; in &#8220;conservative&#8221; systems &#8211; I&#8217;m using the termonology which is common in social policy research &#8211; but that the share of traditional families compared to modern ones is falling. In &#8220;social democratic&#8221; systems there would be fewer &#8220;traditional&#8221; families and the gap between the number of children would be smaller.</p>

	<p>Btw: I noted that the author of one of the posts, that the original post in this thread linked to, complained about the difficulties of being (and wanting to be) a full-time mother while at the same time doing academic work. A Scandinavian mother would leave her child/ren in day care after the end of parental leave and go on with her work. End of story.</p>
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		<title>By: minerva</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164856</link>
		<dc:creator>minerva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164856</guid>
		<description>What I&#039;ve discovered is that there seems to be an understanding about how many children women are allowed to have pre-tenure on the part of so-called progressive academics: You are allowed one child before tenure. Two, however, and we write you off. So long as you are a woman. I&#039;ve noticed this doesn&#039;t seem to apply as stringently to men. Surprisingly, the three professors who emphasized this most strongly to me were women and committed feminists. One was a Women&#039;s Studies Professor. Another told me that if I did much more than what is usual for tenure I might be allowed more than one child. 

It seems to be the case that the one child policy is a progressive thing. The less progressive view is that you aren&#039;t allowed any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What I&#8217;ve discovered is that there seems to be an understanding about how many children women are allowed to have pre-tenure on the part of so-called progressive academics: You are allowed one child before tenure. Two, however, and we write you off. So long as you are a woman. I&#8217;ve noticed this doesn&#8217;t seem to apply as stringently to men. Surprisingly, the three professors who emphasized this most strongly to me were women and committed feminists. One was a Women&#8217;s Studies Professor. Another told me that if I did much more than what is usual for tenure I might be allowed more than one child.</p>

	<p>It seems to be the case that the one child policy is a progressive thing. The less progressive view is that you aren&#8217;t allowed any.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164755</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164755</guid>
		<description>Jacob Christensen,

What are the parameters in the relationship you describe?

What measures social conservatism and how much does it lower fertility rates?

How does it relate to the single-breadwinner model you describe, for example, are you saying couples with one breadwinner have fewer children than couples with two-breadwinners.

Does the data hold for the USA also where social conservatism is correlated with fewer births?  Is this a trend over time or a trend across areas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jacob Christensen,</p>

	<p>What are the parameters in the relationship you describe?</p>

	<p>What measures social conservatism and how much does it lower fertility rates?</p>

	<p>How does it relate to the single-breadwinner model you describe, for example, are you saying couples with one breadwinner have fewer children than couples with two-breadwinners.</p>

	<p>Does the data hold for the <span class="caps">USA</span> also where social conservatism is correlated with fewer births?  Is this a trend over time or a trend across areas?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164751</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164751</guid>
		<description>Huh, with that title, I thought this post was going to be about the FTM transgendered scientist talking about his three decade career, and comparing the differences to being a scientist as a woman, and as a man. I don&#039;t have a link to the Nature article he wrote, but I do have a link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/science/18conv.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the New York Times interview&lt;/a&gt; with Dr. Barres.

But that just could be because I&#039;ve seen the story in three different communities today, so I&#039;m sort of primed... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Huh, with that title, I thought this post was going to be about the <span class="caps">FTM</span> transgendered scientist talking about his three decade career, and comparing the differences to being a scientist as a woman, and as a man. I don&#8217;t have a link to the Nature article he wrote, but I do have a link to <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/science/18conv.html?pagewanted=1&#038;_r=1" rel="nofollow">the New York Times interview</a> with Dr. Barres.</p>

	<p>But that just could be because I&#8217;ve seen the story in three different communities today, so I&#8217;m sort of primed&#8230; ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Christensen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164717</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164717</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll proof-read myself here: The sentence should be - there &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; an inverse relationship between social conservatism and the rate of child births, not ...there &lt;em&gt;seems to be&lt;/em&gt; an inverse relationship...

No weasels here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ll proof-read myself here: The sentence should be &#8211; there <em>is</em> an inverse relationship between social conservatism and the rate of child births, not &#8230;there <em>seems to be</em> an inverse relationship&#8230;</p>

	<p>No weasels here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Christensen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164714</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164714</guid>
		<description>As a note on the child rearing-theme: This has been a relatively big issue in Germany recently (If you read German, I&#039;ll recommend this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.zeit.de/2006/25/Demografie-2_xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article from Die Zeit&lt;/a&gt;) as the Germans and most other Europeans have noted that on the macro-level there seems to be an inverse relationship between social conservatism and the rate of child births.

In a modern society, a system which is based on the single-breadwinner model discourages women from having children.

The question then is: Can this macro-level observation be reproduced at the medium- and micro-levels? And: Can we conversely say something about the degree of social conservatism of medium- and micro-level institutions (such as segments of the labour market and individual workplaces) by looking at the rate of births among women who work there? (Just to state the obvious: Is academia to a higher degree than other parts of society still based on a socially conservative or a single/male breadwinner-model?)

The article, that I link to, also have a really fascinating discussion about how demographic statistics are politicised in Germany. Basically, the Christian Democrats do not want reliable statistics about variations in fertility rates.

PS: At &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pol.umu.se&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;my&quot; department&lt;/a&gt;, two of our female grad students have had children recently and the overwhelming majority of the female staff are in a relationship (yes: I didn&#039;t write &quot;and have children&quot; but I suspect that the rate of infertility isn&#039;t much higher than in Sweden-at-large). It is the men who are more likely to be unmarried and childless.

But this is of cause anecdotal evidence - I would need numbers for all of &quot;my&quot; university or Swedish universities to be able to say something reliable about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a note on the child rearing-theme: This has been a relatively big issue in Germany recently (If you read German, I&#8217;ll recommend this <a href="http://www.zeit.de/2006/25/Demografie-2_xml" rel="nofollow">article from Die Zeit</a>) as the Germans and most other Europeans have noted that on the macro-level there seems to be an inverse relationship between social conservatism and the rate of child births.</p>

	<p>In a modern society, a system which is based on the single-breadwinner model discourages women from having children.</p>

	<p>The question then is: Can this macro-level observation be reproduced at the medium- and micro-levels? And: Can we conversely say something about the degree of social conservatism of medium- and micro-level institutions (such as segments of the labour market and individual workplaces) by looking at the rate of births among women who work there? (Just to state the obvious: Is academia to a higher degree than other parts of society still based on a socially conservative or a single/male breadwinner-model?)</p>

	<p>The article, that I link to, also have a really fascinating discussion about how demographic statistics are politicised in Germany. Basically, the Christian Democrats do not want reliable statistics about variations in fertility rates.</p>

	<p>PS: At <a href="http://www.pol.umu.se" rel="nofollow">&#8220;my&#8221; department</a>, two of our female grad students have had children recently and the overwhelming majority of the female staff are in a relationship (yes: I didn&#8217;t write &#8220;and have children&#8221; but I suspect that the rate of infertility isn&#8217;t much higher than in Sweden-at-large). It is the men who are more likely to be unmarried and childless.</p>

	<p>But this is of cause anecdotal evidence &#8211; I would need numbers for all of &#8220;my&#8221; university or Swedish universities to be able to say something reliable about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard (a boy)</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164673</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard (a boy)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164673</guid>
		<description>my own, teeny-tiny data point is that so far my all-male committee has been very supportive of my having babies in grad school, and taking the time necessary to be a present and supportive father.

...that said, I have noticed that grad school in general is not very compatible with child-rearing, and that a successful academic career, with frequent traveling (for fieldwork, conferences, invited talks, archival research etc) appears much less so.

...and yes, I am already aware that the idea of fieldwork or archival research alongside an academic career  is laughable... but allow me my illusions for the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>my own, teeny-tiny data point is that so far my all-male committee has been very supportive of my having babies in grad school, and taking the time necessary to be a present and supportive father.</p>

	<p>&#8230;that said, I have noticed that grad school in general is not very compatible with child-rearing, and that a successful academic career, with frequent traveling (for fieldwork, conferences, invited talks, archival research etc) appears much less so.</p>

	<p>&#8230;and yes, I am already aware that the idea of fieldwork or archival research alongside an academic career  is laughable&#8230; but allow me my illusions for the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuchundra</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164666</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuchundra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164666</guid>
		<description>How can the topic of &quot;having babies while in grad school&quot; not roll into one about gender differences?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How can the topic of &#8220;having babies while in grad school&#8221; not roll into one about gender differences?</p>
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		<title>By: laura</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/18/the-gendered-aspects-of-academia/comment-page-1/#comment-164660</link>
		<dc:creator>laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4918#comment-164660</guid>
		<description>oooh.  I love this blog.  Thanks for the tip, Eszter.  Here&#039;s another &lt;a href=&quot;http://radio.weblogs.com/0151290/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt; that I found recently that discusses sexism and academia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oooh.  I love this blog.  Thanks for the tip, Eszter.  Here&#8217;s another <a href="http://radio.weblogs.com/0151290/" rel="nofollow">blog</a> that I found recently that discusses sexism and academia.</p>
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