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	<title>Comments on: Chronicle on Cole</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jacob T. Levy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166261</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob T. Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166261</guid>
		<description>Huh.  For ages now I&#039;ve assumed that Richard Bellamy the CT commentor was Richard Bellamy the political theorist.  Live and learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Huh.  For ages now I&#8217;ve assumed that Richard Bellamy the CT commentor was Richard Bellamy the political theorist.  Live and learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166219</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166219</guid>
		<description>Stuart, it&#039;s not.  For example, one could judge Cole&#039;s position along the spectrum of US opinions.  And when one is making absolute statements, one should try to do something like that, rather than dodging into &#039;from my point of view&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stuart, it&#8217;s not.  For example, one could judge Cole&#8217;s position along the spectrum of US opinions.  And when one is making absolute statements, one should try to do something like that, rather than dodging into &#8216;from my point of view&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Gal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166194</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Gal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 05:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166194</guid>
		<description>Congrats on the C&amp;L link.  I can&#039;t get hired as a high school history teacher in Alabama, but I think it&#039;s because I won&#039;t coach basketball.  

Eventually the larger universe, and particularly academia, will recognize blogging as &lt;i&gt;published writing&lt;/i&gt; and factor it in with every other hiring factor out there.  It will be up to those bloggers seeking those rare openings at Yale (sorry not to get all choked up about it) to make sure their spelling and their stories are correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Congrats on the C&#038;L link.  I can&#8217;t get hired as a high school history teacher in Alabama, but I think it&#8217;s because I won&#8217;t coach basketball.</p>

	<p>Eventually the larger universe, and particularly academia, will recognize blogging as <i>published writing</i> and factor it in with every other hiring factor out there.  It will be up to those bloggers seeking those rare openings at Yale (sorry not to get all choked up about it) to make sure their spelling and their stories are correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166142</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166142</guid>
		<description>Well, those sorts of observations are inherently statements of viewpoint, aren&#039;t they?  And I still maintain that on the left-right spectrum (to the extent that is a really sensible way of looking at things; I often wonder), Dr. Cole is rather far along to the left - and that that would be rather obvious to those not themselves well to the left of center.  But as I said, different views are what makes the world go &#039;round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, those sorts of observations are inherently statements of viewpoint, aren&#8217;t they?  And I still maintain that on the left-right spectrum (to the extent that is a really sensible way of looking at things; I often wonder), Dr. Cole is rather far along to the left &#8211; and that that would be rather obvious to those not themselves well to the left of center.  But as I said, different views are what makes the world go &#8216;round.</p>
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		<title>By: Crooks and Liars &#187; Mike&#8217;s Blog Round Up</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166141</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooks and Liars &#187; Mike&#8217;s Blog Round Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166141</guid>
		<description>[...] Crooked Timber:&#160; Can blogging derail your career? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Crooked Timber:&nbsp; Can blogging derail your career? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166130</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166130</guid>
		<description>Stuart, this means that &#039;so-and-so is an extreme leftist&#039; becomes &#039;*from my viewpoint*, so-and-so is an extreme leftist&#039;.  

Rather a different thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stuart, this means that &#8216;so-and-so is an extreme leftist&#8217; becomes &#8216;*from my viewpoint*, so-and-so is an extreme leftist&#8217;.</p>

	<p>Rather a different thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166105</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166105</guid>
		<description>That should be &quot;Yes, I understand that &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; agree more with Cole than with Robertson&quot;.

Sheesh, talk about bad editing......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That should be &#8220;Yes, I understand that <i><b>you</b></i> agree more with Cole than with Robertson&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Sheesh, talk about bad editing&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166104</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166104</guid>
		<description>Barry, to me he looks pretty far left.  I base that on his pretty consistent (not 100%, but pretty consistent) opining that the US is wrong, that Israel is wrong, etc etc etc.  That is a leftie trope these days - wasn&#039;t always, but nowadays it is.

As I observed before, he might not appear left to &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; - if you&#039;re standing on the left he might be close by to your views - but to those of us who are not consistent lefties, but are more eclectic, he sure looks very sinistral.  I don&#039;t doubt that he states the truth as he sees it, but don&#039;t you see that &quot;as he sees it&quot; is a whopper of a qualifier?  If I thought Pat Robertson was the second coming of Leonardo da Vinci, the total Renaissance man (I don&#039;t, of course, but stay with me on this), then if I said so I&#039;d be stating the truth as I saw it.  And that view would be no less extreme than what you said about Cole.  Yes, I understand that agree more with Cole than with Robertson (me, I tend to disagree with both), but the analysis is precisely the same.  I believe Robertson has a doctorate, too.

This is an issue of perception, Barry - it&#039;s not a stupid assertion by me about Cole, it&#039;s simply a difference of how one views the world.  You view it differently.  That&#039;s what makes the world go &#039;round.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Barry, to me he looks pretty far left.  I base that on his pretty consistent (not 100%, but pretty consistent) opining that the US is wrong, that Israel is wrong, etc etc etc.  That is a leftie trope these days &#8211; wasn&#8217;t always, but nowadays it is.</p>

	<p>As I observed before, he might not appear left to <i>you</i> &#8211; if you&#8217;re standing on the left he might be close by to your views &#8211; but to those of us who are not consistent lefties, but are more eclectic, he sure looks very sinistral.  I don&#8217;t doubt that he states the truth as he sees it, but don&#8217;t you see that &#8220;as he sees it&#8221; is a whopper of a qualifier?  If I thought Pat Robertson was the second coming of Leonardo da Vinci, the total Renaissance man (I don&#8217;t, of course, but stay with me on this), then if I said so I&#8217;d be stating the truth as I saw it.  And that view would be no less extreme than what you said about Cole.  Yes, I understand that agree more with Cole than with Robertson (me, I tend to disagree with both), but the analysis is precisely the same.  I believe Robertson has a doctorate, too.</p>

	<p>This is an issue of perception, Barry &#8211; it&#8217;s not a stupid assertion by me about Cole, it&#8217;s simply a difference of how one views the world.  You view it differently.  That&#8217;s what makes the world go &#8216;round.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166102</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166102</guid>
		<description>Stuart, please re-read what you wrote, because you&#039;re missing a few things.  I think that you&#039;re in the &#039;can&#039;t edit your own writing&#039; mode that 99% of the human race (myself included) runs in.

&#039;sinistral in the extreme&#039; 
How is Juan Cole an extreme leftist? 

&#039;...he has voluntarily made himself a poster child for the leftie view...&#039; 

He&#039;s spoken the truth as he sees it, and, *again*, not for the &#039;leftie&#039; view, but for the view of (probably close to) half of the US population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stuart, please re-read what you wrote, because you&#8217;re missing a few things.  I think that you&#8217;re in the &#8216;can&#8217;t edit your own writing&#8217; mode that 99% of the human race (myself included) runs in.</p>

	<p>&#8216;sinistral in the extreme&#8217;<br />
How is Juan Cole an extreme leftist?</p>

	<p>&#8216;&#8230;he has voluntarily made himself a poster child for the leftie view&#8230;&#8217;</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s spoken the truth as he sees it, and, <strong>again</strong>, not for the &#8216;leftie&#8217; view, but for the view of (probably close to) half of the US population.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166084</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166084</guid>
		<description>Barry,  I&#039;m sorry, but I just don&#039;t see how anything I said was even that controversial, much less stupid.  Cole has indeed been very visible and adamant about his views, and he gets quoted a lot, especially by bloggers on the left side of the spectrum - is it that you do not like the term &quot;poster child&quot;?  And his views are indeed noticeably to the left (that&#039;s what &quot;sinistral&quot; means - you can look it up if you don&#039;t believe me).  It might be that people to the left of me (I view myself as roughly centrist, tending to libertarian) don&#039;t view him as particularly left - and that&#039;s ok - but it&#039;s a matter of perspective.  

I don&#039;t appreciate being called stupid.  I find disagreement perfectly fine (I&#039;m a lawyer, after all, so dealing with disagreement is my bread and butter), but there was no reason to call me stupid.  I have opinions just like you do.  If you find my conclusions erroneous, say so.  I didn&#039;t insult you, please don&#039;t insult me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Barry,  I&#8217;m sorry, but I just don&#8217;t see how anything I said was even that controversial, much less stupid.  Cole has indeed been very visible and adamant about his views, and he gets quoted a lot, especially by bloggers on the left side of the spectrum &#8211; is it that you do not like the term &#8220;poster child&#8221;?  And his views are indeed noticeably to the left (that&#8217;s what &#8220;sinistral&#8221; means &#8211; you can look it up if you don&#8217;t believe me).  It might be that people to the left of me (I view myself as roughly centrist, tending to libertarian) don&#8217;t view him as particularly left &#8211; and that&#8217;s ok &#8211; but it&#8217;s a matter of perspective.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t appreciate being called stupid.  I find disagreement perfectly fine (I&#8217;m a lawyer, after all, so dealing with disagreement is my bread and butter), but there was no reason to call me stupid.  I have opinions just like you do.  If you find my conclusions erroneous, say so.  I didn&#8217;t insult you, please don&#8217;t insult me.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bellamy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166082</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bellamy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166082</guid>
		<description>I will only add that context is important.

Hegel using a word in a &quot;technical&quot; sense in The Philosophy of History is very different from one using a word in a &quot;technical&quot; sense in a news interview or a blog.  The problems with Hegel stem from taking him out of context, not from Hegel placing them into a context in which they are inappropriate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I will only add that context is important.</p>

	<p>Hegel using a word in a &#8220;technical&#8221; sense in The Philosophy of History is very different from one using a word in a &#8220;technical&#8221; sense in a news interview or a blog.  The problems with Hegel stem from taking him out of context, not from Hegel placing them into a context in which they are inappropriate.</p>
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		<title>By: Thom Brooks</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166081</link>
		<dc:creator>Thom Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166081</guid>
		<description>Barry, I do take your point. Essentially, I only meant to highlight that those of us who are not Middle East scholars may see some of their academic discussions out of the proper context. Thus, I see Richard&#039;s worry. However, I am not a Cole-basher: as with Hegel, once read in the proper context, the worry goes away.

Besides I fail to see *anything* dangerous in Cole&#039;s views in any event. He&#039;s a highly accomplished chap who did not seem to earn what he deserved.

P.S. I&#039;m afraid that while I live in the UK, I am actually from that New Haven place (forget the name of its main university though...) and poor at old British sayings...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Barry, I do take your point. Essentially, I only meant to highlight that those of us who are not Middle East scholars may see some of their academic discussions out of the proper context. Thus, I see Richard&#8217;s worry. However, I am not a Cole-basher: as with Hegel, once read in the proper context, the worry goes away.</p>

	<p>Besides I fail to see <strong>anything</strong> dangerous in Cole&#8217;s views in any event. He&#8217;s a highly accomplished chap who did not seem to earn what he deserved.</p>

	<p>P.S. I&#8217;m afraid that while I live in the UK, I am actually from that New Haven place (forget the name of its main university though&#8230;) and poor at old British sayings&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166079</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166079</guid>
		<description>thom brooks:  &quot;I don’t disagree with much that Richard Bellamy has to say: it is certainly curious to hear “anti-Seminitism” as a term that includes groups beyond Jews given the term’s widely acknowledged (however contrived) use in English today. The point is fair enough.&quot;

Thom, once you read the full paragraph which Cole wrote, it&#039;s much more clear - that&#039;s the trick that the cole-bashers are using, of exerpting part of a paragraph.   

Have you ever heard of the (legendary?) old British saying, &#039;wogs begin at Calais&#039;?  Cole is clearly referring to that.  I used the phrase &#039;hook-nosed jew/arab/etc.&#039; to describe what Cole was discussing (IMHO); the general idea that &#039;they&#039; are violent, dirty, untrustworthy, dark, etc.

Does this help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>thom brooks:  &#8220;I don&#8217;t disagree with much that Richard Bellamy has to say: it is certainly curious to hear &#8220;anti-Seminitism&#8221; as a term that includes groups beyond Jews given the term&#8217;s widely acknowledged (however contrived) use in English today. The point is fair enough.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Thom, once you read the full paragraph which Cole wrote, it&#8217;s much more clear &#8211; that&#8217;s the trick that the cole-bashers are using, of exerpting part of a paragraph.</p>

	<p>Have you ever heard of the (legendary?) old British saying, &#8216;wogs begin at Calais&#8217;?  Cole is clearly referring to that.  I used the phrase &#8216;hook-nosed jew/arab/etc.&#8217; to describe what Cole was discussing (IMHO); the general idea that &#8216;they&#8217; are violent, dirty, untrustworthy, dark, etc.</p>

	<p>Does this help?</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166078</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166078</guid>
		<description>Stuart, referring to your post #107:

&quot;Third, he has voluntarily made himself a poster child for the leftie view of the Iraq war, Israel, and related subjects. &quot;


&quot;His political views are, shall we say, sinistral in the extreme, but in academia that’s hardly unusual. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stuart, referring to your post #107:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Third, he has voluntarily made himself a poster child for the leftie view of the Iraq war, Israel, and related subjects. &#8221;</p>


	<p>&#8220;His political views are, shall we say, sinistral in the extreme, but in academia that&#8217;s hardly unusual. &#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: otto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/24/chronicle-on-cole/comment-page-3/#comment-166069</link>
		<dc:creator>otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4939#comment-166069</guid>
		<description>Also on Yale/Michigan: I remember reading while tenure-track pay is often similar, full tenured professor salaries at private research universities are often much higher than full tenured professor salaries at public research universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also on Yale/Michigan: I remember reading while tenure-track pay is often similar, full tenured professor salaries at private research universities are often much higher than full tenured professor salaries at public research universities.</p>
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