<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Lieberman-Lamont  and the blogs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:23:18 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Tilden'76</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-167144</link>
		<dc:creator>Tilden'76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-167144</guid>
		<description>Ben and y81, you are both missing the point.  Dozens of Democratic Senators and Congress members supported the war, only Lieberman finds himself in this situation and only Lieberman could.  Lieberman is a special case, Ben.  He is a special case, because it is not all about the war, y81.  Lieberman has built his career and especially his national reputation through high profile rebuking of the sensibilities of his own party’s base voters.  Church and state, Lewinski, Howard Dean’s “spider hole,” the Schivo affair, CEO compensation, tax cuts, labor rights, and yes y81, bankruptcy law, are among the scores of topics used by Lieberman to poke a stick in the eye the Democratic faithful.  Yes, other Senators sometimes voted the same way, but they didn’t make a point of insulting their base with defiant condescension and self-righteousness.

The war is only the catalyst for a reaction waiting to happen.  Throw the catalyst on a more inert situation, like any other Democratic Senator’s base, and nothing like this happens.  It’s like a marriage.  If the marriage is basically strong, it is resilient and people forgive their spouse even major missteps.  On the other hand, if the relationship is on the edge from years of growing estrangement and seething frustration (a fair description of the way many Democrats feel about Lieberman), the same misstep leads to bitter recrimination and divorce.  (And sometimes, reconciliation.  We’ll see next week.)  

You also make a mistake, y81, in putting way too much stock in polls.  Over the last two decades I have read and commissioned more political polls then I can even remember.  I count numerous career pollsters and statisticians among my friends and I can tell you flat out that it is a very crude tool for measuring motivation.  Polls provide a snap shot of what is happening at a moment in time, but it takes quite a bit of poring over large amounts of polling data, usually sequenced in time and backed up by focus groups, to tease out why it is happening – and even then you aren’t always right.  None of the data released on the race to date comes anywhere near giving us this kind of tool.  Very little credible academic experimentation in real world American politics goes on at all,  (Donald Green at Yale is the shining exception) so it is a bit futile to hold out for that as your standard.  Ultimately, pollsters and strategists go with what their experience-honed instincts tell them.  One thing that experience makes very clear to all of them is that voters almost never (or never, depending on who you ask) vote on issues per se.  Issues act as building blocks and props in a narrative of values that guides voting decisions (this has been tested, by the way) and in that equation, where you are on bankruptcy law can be as useful a touchstone for defining a candidate as how you talk about the war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ben and y81, you are both missing the point.  Dozens of Democratic Senators and Congress members supported the war, only Lieberman finds himself in this situation and only Lieberman could.  Lieberman is a special case, Ben.  He is a special case, because it is not all about the war, y81.  Lieberman has built his career and especially his national reputation through high profile rebuking of the sensibilities of his own party&#8217;s base voters.  Church and state, Lewinski, Howard Dean&#8217;s &#8220;spider hole,&#8221; the Schivo affair, <span class="caps">CEO</span> compensation, tax cuts, labor rights, and yes y81, bankruptcy law, are among the scores of topics used by Lieberman to poke a stick in the eye the Democratic faithful.  Yes, other Senators sometimes voted the same way, but they didn&#8217;t make a point of insulting their base with defiant condescension and self-righteousness.</p>

	<p>The war is only the catalyst for a reaction waiting to happen.  Throw the catalyst on a more inert situation, like any other Democratic Senator&#8217;s base, and nothing like this happens.  It&#8217;s like a marriage.  If the marriage is basically strong, it is resilient and people forgive their spouse even major missteps.  On the other hand, if the relationship is on the edge from years of growing estrangement and seething frustration (a fair description of the way many Democrats feel about Lieberman), the same misstep leads to bitter recrimination and divorce.  (And sometimes, reconciliation.  We&#8217;ll see next week.)</p>

	<p>You also make a mistake, y81, in putting way too much stock in polls.  Over the last two decades I have read and commissioned more political polls then I can even remember.  I count numerous career pollsters and statisticians among my friends and I can tell you flat out that it is a very crude tool for measuring motivation.  Polls provide a snap shot of what is happening at a moment in time, but it takes quite a bit of poring over large amounts of polling data, usually sequenced in time and backed up by focus groups, to tease out why it is happening &#8211; and even then you aren&#8217;t always right.  None of the data released on the race to date comes anywhere near giving us this kind of tool.  Very little credible academic experimentation in real world American politics goes on at all,  (Donald Green at Yale is the shining exception) so it is a bit futile to hold out for that as your standard.  Ultimately, pollsters and strategists go with what their experience-honed instincts tell them.  One thing that experience makes very clear to all of them is that voters almost never (or never, depending on who you ask) vote on issues per se.  Issues act as building blocks and props in a narrative of values that guides voting decisions (this has been tested, by the way) and in that equation, where you are on bankruptcy law can be as useful a touchstone for defining a candidate as how you talk about the war.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Elective RINO-plasty at Blog P.I. (beta)</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-167004</link>
		<dc:creator>Elective RINO-plasty at Blog P.I. (beta)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-167004</guid>
		<description>[...] Red State, like almost all conservative blogs, has criticized the wisdom of Ned Lamont&#8217;s challenge to Sen. Joe Lieberman (not to mention the liberal blogs for supporting it). But they share a few things in common: First of all, both seats are assumedly safe for the squabbling side. Second, both incumbents are talking up their experience, their ability to bring jobs to the state, and their endorsements from traditional interest groups close to the party. This might work with the wider electorate in each race, but it isn&#8217;t working with the online activists. For Lieberman, his Democratic opponents just don&#8217;t care: His support for the Iraq war and his palling around with Bush dwarf all other issues. For Schwarz, his Republican critics are in no mood to hear it, either. His RINO tendencies are numerous, though there isn&#8217;t an issue as galvanizing as the Iraq war. The closest thing might be the conservative bloggers&#8217; conscious crusade against pork barrel politics. But Schwarz has generally voted the right way on taxes, and is in fact trying to attack Walberg as a tax-raiser. They aren&#8217;t buying that either, but also, Tim Walberg&#8217;s internet profile is in no way comparable Lamont&#8217;s. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Red State, like almost all conservative blogs, has criticized the wisdom of Ned Lamont&#8217;s challenge to Sen. Joe Lieberman (not to mention the liberal blogs for supporting it). But they share a few things in common: First of all, both seats are assumedly safe for the squabbling side. Second, both incumbents are talking up their experience, their ability to bring jobs to the state, and their endorsements from traditional interest groups close to the party. This might work with the wider electorate in each race, but it isn&#8217;t working with the online activists. For Lieberman, his Democratic opponents just don&#8217;t care: His support for the Iraq war and his palling around with Bush dwarf all other issues. For Schwarz, his Republican critics are in no mood to hear it, either. His <span class="caps">RINO</span> tendencies are numerous, though there isn&#8217;t an issue as galvanizing as the Iraq war. The closest thing might be the conservative bloggers&#8217; conscious crusade against pork barrel politics. But Schwarz has generally voted the right way on taxes, and is in fact trying to attack Walberg as a tax-raiser. They aren&#8217;t buying that either, but also, Tim Walberg&#8217;s internet profile is in no way comparable Lamont&#8217;s. [...]</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166990</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166990</guid>
		<description>Uncle Kvetch,

You may be right (I don&#039;t read many mainstream pundits).  A quick google, though, shows Business Week commenting &quot;This year&#039;s primary will determine if there&#039;s room for a powerful moderate senator in the conservative-dominated Republican Party&quot;, and I certainly remember the conservative part of the party thinking that was the issue (see NR&#039;s coverage of the race as an example).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Uncle Kvetch,</p>

	<p>You may be right (I don&#8217;t read many mainstream pundits).  A quick google, though, shows Business Week commenting &#8220;This year&#8217;s primary will determine if there&#8217;s room for a powerful moderate senator in the conservative-dominated Republican Party&#8221;, and I certainly remember the conservative part of the party thinking that was the issue (see NR&#8217;s coverage of the race as an example).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166974</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166974</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, Samchevre, with one important distinction: When Toomey challenged Specter, I don&#039;t recall any mainstream pundits wailing and rending their garments about the &quot;ideological jihad&quot; taking place in the Republican Party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re right, Samchevre, with one important distinction: When Toomey challenged Specter, I don&#8217;t recall any mainstream pundits wailing and rending their garments about the &#8220;ideological jihad&#8221; taking place in the Republican Party.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166965</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166965</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Lamont-Lieberman pretty much the Democrat&#039;s version of Specter-Toomey?

Lots of people were unhappy with Specter, for lots of reasons--dating back to his derailing of Bork&#039;s SC nomination.  However, it wasn&#039;t until he became the symbol of &quot;opposition to tax cuts&quot; that there was enough coordinated dislike to mount a real primary challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Isn&#8217;t Lamont-Lieberman pretty much the Democrat&#8217;s version of Specter-Toomey?</p>

	<p>Lots of people were unhappy with Specter, for lots of reasons&#8212;dating back to his derailing of Bork&#8217;s SC nomination.  However, it wasn&#8217;t until he became the symbol of &#8220;opposition to tax cuts&#8221; that there was enough coordinated dislike to mount a real primary challenge.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Down and Out in Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166875</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out in Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 04:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166875</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Instead, [Lieberman] has echoed the president’s view that criticism of the administration is “at our peril.”&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s one reason I don&#039;t like the American political scene. In most other democracies, any opposition politician saying that about the government of the day would be attacked by his own party and ridiculed by the media - and rightly so in both cases. Imagine the Tories saying criticism of Blair is &quot;at our peril&quot;, or the ALP saying the same about Howard. The broadsheets would be overflowing with scorn.

Or to summarize: I expect opposition politicians to act like the opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Instead, [Lieberman] has echoed the president&#8217;s view that criticism of the administration is &#8220;at our peril.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s one reason I don&#8217;t like the American political scene. In most other democracies, any opposition politician saying that about the government of the day would be attacked by his own party and ridiculed by the media &#8211; and rightly so in both cases. Imagine the Tories saying criticism of Blair is &#8220;at our peril&#8221;, or the <span class="caps">ALP</span> saying the same about Howard. The broadsheets would be overflowing with scorn.</p>

	<p>Or to summarize: I expect opposition politicians to act like the opposition.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166873</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 04:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166873</guid>
		<description>Ben Alpers: If we take down Lieberman, we&#039;ll have leverage with some of the others. Concentrating on the single worst guy has a lot of point to it --  fighting and losing 10-20 fight would be discouraging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ben Alpers: If we take down Lieberman, we&#8217;ll have leverage with some of the others. Concentrating on the single worst guy has a lot of point to it&#8212; fighting and losing 10-20 fight would be discouraging.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ben alpers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166863</link>
		<dc:creator>ben alpers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 00:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166863</guid>
		<description>Henry,

There are indeed prominent progressive bloggers -- digby and Atrios among them -- who are willing to be verbally critical of other center-right Dems like the Nelsons (though there are also those -- like Kos himself -- who really do suggest that Lieberman is somehow a unique case).

However, even among those willing to verbally criticize these other Democrats, there was never a serious movement to mount a primary -- or general election -- challenge to them from the left.  Both Nelsons, Tom Carper of Delaware, and Clinton are all up for reelection; each has richly earned a primary challenge from the left. Yet no prominent progressive blogger has promoted such a challenge to any of them, even when there are candidates running against them (as there is, at least, in the case of Clinton).  

In short, actions speak louder than words. And the only Democratic incumbent in the Senate who is facing a serious primary challenge from the left (and it ain&#039;t too far to the left, either) is Lieberman.  Indeed, the very narrative about Lieberman that you correctly describe as having been written (at least in large part) by the blogosphere -- that Lieberman warrants a challenge because he is insufficiently &lt;i&gt;partisan&lt;/i&gt; -- itself militates against criticism of the Democratic Party &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Henry,</p>

	<p>There are indeed prominent progressive bloggers&#8212;digby and Atrios among them&#8212;who are willing to be verbally critical of other center-right Dems like the Nelsons (though there are also those&#8212;like Kos himself&#8212;who really do suggest that Lieberman is somehow a unique case).</p>

	<p>However, even among those willing to verbally criticize these other Democrats, there was never a serious movement to mount a primary&#8212;or general election&#8212;challenge to them from the left.  Both Nelsons, Tom Carper of Delaware, and Clinton are all up for reelection; each has richly earned a primary challenge from the left. Yet no prominent progressive blogger has promoted such a challenge to any of them, even when there are candidates running against them (as there is, at least, in the case of Clinton).</p>

	<p>In short, actions speak louder than words. And the only Democratic incumbent in the Senate who is facing a serious primary challenge from the left (and it ain&#8217;t too far to the left, either) is Lieberman.  Indeed, the very narrative about Lieberman that you correctly describe as having been written (at least in large part) by the blogosphere&#8212;that Lieberman warrants a challenge because he is insufficiently <i>partisan</i>&#8212;itself militates against criticism of the Democratic Party <i>per se</i>.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chuchundra</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166862</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuchundra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 00:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166862</guid>
		<description>There are plenty of pro-war Dems, but none are as clueless as Holy Joe. You don&#039;t see Hillary Clinton on Hannity&#039;s show talking smack about the Democrats.

I&#039;m liking the Lamont challenge very much. Maybe it will put the fear of God into some of the other Democratic senators who feel that their sinecure is guaranteed because they&#039;re in a heavily blue state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are plenty of pro-war Dems, but none are as clueless as Holy Joe. You don&#8217;t see Hillary Clinton on Hannity&#8217;s show talking smack about the Democrats.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m liking the Lamont challenge very much. Maybe it will put the fear of God into some of the other Democratic senators who feel that their sinecure is guaranteed because they&#8217;re in a heavily blue state.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: y81</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166858</link>
		<dc:creator>y81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166858</guid>
		<description>neil (#15), you seem to be wilfully misunderstanding me.  My views are based on objective research, such as the public opinion surveys conducted by Quinnipiac University.  I personally believe that disinterested academic study is the best route to the truth.  Henry (#4) suggested that I read more newspapers, which I do not consider a good route to the truth.  It is newspapers that publish what &quot;everyone knows,&quot; and it is academic researchers who, on good days, actually teach you something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>neil (#15), you seem to be wilfully misunderstanding me.  My views are based on objective research, such as the public opinion surveys conducted by Quinnipiac University.  I personally believe that disinterested academic study is the best route to the truth.  Henry (#4) suggested that I read more newspapers, which I do not consider a good route to the truth.  It is newspapers that publish what &#8220;everyone knows,&#8221; and it is academic researchers who, on good days, actually teach you something.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166844</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166844</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Netroots bloggers have been critical in framing Lieberman as a unique problem for the Democratic Party (as opposed to what I believe he is: a particularly severe symptom of a much larger structural problem with the party in general). [...] Though I certainly look forward to seeing Holy Joe out of the Senate, I’d be happier if the left of the blogosphere had more critical distance on the party of which he is a member.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m with Ben on this. Too many prominent left-of-center bloggers are arguing Lieberman as some kind of special case, and pointing to the very weak intraparty opposition to, say, Hillary Clinton as proof of this. What really grates here is that so many of them seem to be doing this as a way of refuting the ridiculous pearl-clutching from the New Republic crowd (and Brooks and Broder etc etc) about &quot;purges&quot; and &quot;ideological purity.&quot; In other words, they&#039;re allowing the right and the faux center to define the terms of the debate. Again.

More of them need to stop dancing around the issue and say yes, Joe Lieberman is the most glaring symbol of a much broader problem in the Democratic Party, and this could be the beginning of something much bigger than one Senate seat in Connecticut. And you can call that a self-destructive jihad led by bug-eyed zealots (under the nefarious direction of The Dark Overlord Kos)--or you can call it democracy. We already know what David Brooks is going to call it...but then again, is there any conceivable reason why any progressive-minded person should give a shit what David Brooks has to say about anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Netroots bloggers have been critical in framing Lieberman as a unique problem for the Democratic Party (as opposed to what I believe he is: a particularly severe symptom of a much larger structural problem with the party in general). [...] Though I certainly look forward to seeing Holy Joe out of the Senate, I&#8217;d be happier if the left of the blogosphere had more critical distance on the party of which he is a member.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;m with Ben on this. Too many prominent left-of-center bloggers are arguing Lieberman as some kind of special case, and pointing to the very weak intraparty opposition to, say, Hillary Clinton as proof of this. What really grates here is that so many of them seem to be doing this as a way of refuting the ridiculous pearl-clutching from the New Republic crowd (and Brooks and Broder etc etc) about &#8220;purges&#8221; and &#8220;ideological purity.&#8221; In other words, they&#8217;re allowing the right and the faux center to define the terms of the debate. Again.</p>

	<p>More of them need to stop dancing around the issue and say yes, Joe Lieberman is the most glaring symbol of a much broader problem in the Democratic Party, and this could be the beginning of something much bigger than one Senate seat in Connecticut. And you can call that a self-destructive jihad led by bug-eyed zealots (under the nefarious direction of The Dark Overlord Kos)&#8212;or you can call it democracy. We already know what David Brooks is going to call it&#8230;but then again, is there any conceivable reason why any progressive-minded person should give a shit what David Brooks has to say about anything?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166840</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166840</guid>
		<description>Sorry y81, I wasn&#039;t aware that your comments were rooted in your intimate knowledge of what &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; thinks. My face is red now! Well, I guess you knew that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry y81, I wasn&#8217;t aware that your comments were rooted in your intimate knowledge of what <i>everyone</i> thinks. My face is red now! Well, I guess you knew that.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: y81</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166839</link>
		<dc:creator>y81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166839</guid>
		<description>To answer some of the comments above:

Newspaper reporters certainly have no privileged source of insight in gauging popular moods.  I read as many blogs and have as many Connecticut friends as the average reporter.  Now if you showed me some results from an academic institution, like the polling institute at Quinnipiac University, indicating that Lieberman was in trouble because of the bankruptcy bill, I would take that seriously, but the idea that I would know more if I read more newspapers is really laughable.

Lieberman has been a vocal and prominent supporter--probably the most vocal and prominent supporter among Democratic senators--of the war and the administration&#039;s conduct of it.  That is why he is in trouble, and other Democratic senators, who voted for war but have complained about it and criticized the Bush administration since, are not.

Hillary Clinton is a special case.  Everyone has made up his or her mind about her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To answer some of the comments above:</p>

	<p>Newspaper reporters certainly have no privileged source of insight in gauging popular moods.  I read as many blogs and have as many Connecticut friends as the average reporter.  Now if you showed me some results from an academic institution, like the polling institute at Quinnipiac University, indicating that Lieberman was in trouble because of the bankruptcy bill, I would take that seriously, but the idea that I would know more if I read more newspapers is really laughable.</p>

	<p>Lieberman has been a vocal and prominent supporter&#8212;probably the most vocal and prominent supporter among Democratic senators&#8212;of the war and the administration&#8217;s conduct of it.  That is why he is in trouble, and other Democratic senators, who voted for war but have complained about it and criticized the Bush administration since, are not.</p>

	<p>Hillary Clinton is a special case.  Everyone has made up his or her mind about her.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166826</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166826</guid>
		<description>ps: see &quot;this&quot;:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072900680.html from Atrios today, and I&#039;m pretty sure that digby had a go at Nelson a few days ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ps: see <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072900680.html" title="">this</a> from Atrios today, and I&#8217;m pretty sure that digby had a go at Nelson a few days ago.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/07/31/lieberman-lamont-and-the-blogs/comment-page-1/#comment-166825</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=4968#comment-166825</guid>
		<description>ben - I&#039;ll have a lot more to say on this soon-ish, but I get the very strong sense that netroots types (or at least many of them) do identify Lieberman as a manifestation of the problem rather than the problem itself. Which is really what I&#039;m trying to argue here - that the framing of the Lieberman race as part of the wider problem of a corrupt form of bipartisanship is what matters (and what is getting the Broders of the world upset - if it was just a matter of losing one guy, I suspect they&#039;d heave Joe over the side of the liferaft without much thinking about it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ben &#8211; I&#8217;ll have a lot more to say on this soon-ish, but I get the very strong sense that netroots types (or at least many of them) do identify Lieberman as a manifestation of the problem rather than the problem itself. Which is really what I&#8217;m trying to argue here &#8211; that the framing of the Lieberman race as part of the wider problem of a corrupt form of bipartisanship is what matters (and what is getting the Broders of the world upset &#8211; if it was just a matter of losing one guy, I suspect they&#8217;d heave Joe over the side of the liferaft without much thinking about it).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
