The GOP-aligned FI draw mostly from the ranks of YFG, with a sprinkling of Cork- and Waterford-based PDs. Yes, they’re only good at the moment for having a laugh at – but they’re the party apparatchiks of not too far in the future.

One of the advantages of Ireland’s often-maligned electoral system is that it requires candidates to put themselves up in competition before the ordinary voter, not only with rival parties but with rival candidates within their own party. It’s not possible to worm yourself into an invulnerable position on a party list, or to persuade a cabal of old codgers on a party committee to give you a safe seat for life. Politicians have to work to appeal to the non-aligned electorate, and for better or worse, that puts ideologues at a disadvantage.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I think the set of skills required for the intrigue and back-stabbing of student and youth-wing politics don’t translate well into the set of skills required to appeal to the non-aligned public. I can think of one individual in a neighbouring county to my own who is a big fish in Young Fine Gael (and was at least peripherally associated with the Freedom Institute) and who seems to have big ambitions in national politics. He certainly manages to insert himself into enough photographs in the local weekly paper and to get them to publish his profound press statements on the issues of the day.

He has managed to get himself selected as a substitute candidate for the European Parliament by Fine Gael. He couldn’t, however, manage to get himself selected as a County Council candidate for the last local elections. I know which position would have given him a better platform for election to the Dáil.

Looking back on my years in college, the only people in UCD who I can remember being active in SU/party politics then and who have succeeded to some extent in national politics since are Conor Lenihan and Richard Boyd-Barrett. The party hacks are either backroom boys/girls now or out of politics altogether.

The ‘tuters (as they were referred to on politics.ie) wouldn’t stand a cat in hell’s chance of election in the real world.

“I’m very glad I attended UCD long after his reign during which women were forbidden from wearing trousers.”

I’m sure you are, but gosh, from a male point of view that seems pretty cool…oh wait, I see – they wore skirts.

Even “Tory” may be giving them too much credit. The GOP-aligned FI draw mostly from the ranks of YFG, with a sprinkling of Cork- and Waterford-based PDs. Yes, they’re only good at the moment for having a laugh at – but they’re the party apparatchiks of not too far in the future.

Yes – and especially at the moment, having apparently just been threatened with legal action myself by one particular individual.

I’ll ask him this weekend! ;-)

Actually, Michael Tierney was our great uncle…

I should probably stop while I’m ahead, shouldn’t I?

I’m very glad I attended UCD long after his reign during which women were forbidden from wearing trousers.

Ah, the days when Kevin Myers was a leftie.

I’ve often heard Garret say that he was a Labour man at heart, but joined Fine Gael because it was the only way to become Taoiseach.

Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think I remember reading somewhere that he was approached to join Fianna Fáil in the mid-60s, but declined because of his family background. An interesting “what-if”?

Maybe I’m overstating the case in saying that the social democrat wing is extinct, but it certainly seems to be much diminished and marginalised.

Even in Dublin, the up-and-coming FG politicos who are likely to win seats next time round – Lucinda Creighton, Leo Varadkar, Brian Hayes – seem to be from the “Tory” wing of the party.

The middle-class vote that was attracted by Garret’s stances on “Church” and “bedroom” issues are not necessarily particularly leftish on other issues – for those that are, the Greens provide an alternative that wasn’t around in the 80s.

I’m very glad I attended UCD long after his reign during which women were forbidden from wearing trousers.

As for Paddy’s detailed comments, I think the social democrat wing of FG is still around. Yes, they got hammered in 2002 but you’d be surprised at the leftie-style opinions one can run into at the lower level (councillor, young activist). I think it is still a Dublin phenomenon, though.

I’d disagree with this, I think. There were a lot of ideas floating around in the Just Society era, and then under FitzGerald’s (and to a lesser extent, Dukes’) leadership. But not before or since, as best as I can tell.

Oh, there were ideas floating around in Fine Gael long before the Declan Costello/Garret FitzGerald era.

But they’re just not ideas that anyone wants to remember.

CoughMichael TierneyCoughCorporate stateCough

(I did say that I originated from the other side of the political fence.)

Today, after an almost twenty year decline, party membership is climbing again as Fine Gael has a realistic chance of winning next year’s election.

Fine Gael are certainly in a healthier state than in a long time – although the party membership figures may have something to do with a one-member-one-vote system being used for selection conventions which encourages potential candidates to recruit as many potential voters as possible.

Unlike the other main party whose programmes seem driven more by electoral vagaries and backroom deals with special interests, Fine Gael has long been a party of ideas – for better or worse. (For a party of ideology, try the PDs.)

The downside of “the party of ideas” is that it can mean that it comes across as being the party of fads – I doubt if the degree of pro-Europeanism in Fine Gael (on issues like European defence) is widely shared among the electorate at large. Fianna Fáil are quite good at “borrowing” ideas that seem to work – pragmatism is not always a bad thing when trying to run a country.

The party seems to have fairly recognizable Christian democrat and social democrat wings. (Costello’s intellectual successors would now be mostly on the social democrat wing.) The Christian democrats are essentially leftish Tories – socially and fiscally conservative, mostly worried about law ‘n’ order.

I’m not too sure about the “leftish” bit there – my experience is that your right-wing Fine Gaeler tends to be a bit to the right of your right-wing Fianna Fáiler (think Alice Glenn, Oliver J. Flanagan, Brendan McGahon), and conversely your left-wing Fine Gaeler tends to be a bit to the left of your left-wing Fianna Fáiler (think Monica Barnes or Nuala Fennell).

My own opinion is that what Costello and those who came after him such as Garret FitzGerald did was to graft a left-of-centre head onto what remained a pretty conservative body. It gave the result a fresh appeal while it lasted. But it was still essentially a conservative body.

I attended this year’s Ard Fheis a few months back and heard the leader’s speech. The audience warmly applauded Kenny’s lambasting of the health service, but rose roaring to its feet for the coded sequence about letting land owners shoot marauding travellers. It was a hair-raising experience to someone with long-cherished notions about FG and social inclusion.

That’s the sort of thing I’m getting at when I express doubt about the “leftishness” of the Fine Gael base. For all of Fianna Fáil’s myriad faults, there’s not so much of the authoritarianism there that is Old Fine Gael’s least attractive feature. The saving grace of roguery is that you tend to be less keen on the firm smack of the long arm of the law (yes, I know it’s a terribly mixed metaphor).

You don’t hear so much from the social democrat wing,

My impression is that the reason why we don’t hear so much from the social democrat wing is because it’s extinct. A combination of natural wastage (the young tigers of the 70s and early 80s having burnt themselves out) and the peculiarities of the last election (when Fine Gael were almost wiped out in urban areas) mean that what is left in the parliamentary party is overwhelmingly from the “Old” wing (even if it may be young in age). Young Fine Gael now seems to be the habitat of the Young Fogey.

Labour can keep FG honest on economic issues and give it cover for pushing more left of centre policies.

You would hope so. Though that may be expecting a bit much from the Stalinist-turned-Blairite current leadership of the Labour Party.

The FG/Labour shadow coalition has been several points ahead of the government all year. They may have the numbers; now they need some policies. I hope the electoral programme has a bit more substance than the populist sniping that currently passes for government critique.

Again, you would hope so. People are fed up with the current government’s ability to combine arrogance with incompetence (electronic voting machines, anyone?), and a half-convincing alternative should run away with an election, budget bribes or no.

But we should never underestimate Fine Gael’s ability to make a hames of an election campaign (witness 2002’s compensation schemes for taxi-drivers and Eircom shareholders).

FG’s favourite target is Michael McDowell (who used to be Garret FitzGerald’s director of elections in Dublin South East, before defecting to co-found the PDs). As I remarked to the man running the Michael Collins stand at the Ard Fheis, Fine Gaelers can’t bear McDowell because he’s more blueshirt than the blueshirts themselves. He’s certainly stolen their shirt on the North, and has proved impossible to out-law’n’order.

He’s certainly very good at talking the talk. But public fear of crime doesn’t seem to be falling.

FG/Labour has a short window of opportunity to shape the debate of the next election. They can keep churning out eye-catching initiatives (aka nonsense non-policies) like wet-rooms for drunks in casualty departments. Or they can start asking grown-up questions about how Irish people really want to spend what’s left of our boom; further polarisation and stored up social trouble, or long-term thinking on how to keep and spread our wealth in a globalised world. Garret Fitzgerald has often said that people who under-estimate the Irish electorate should look at how cleverly voters use our fiendishly tricky multi-seat PR STV system to get just the result they want. Put it another way; voters have surprisingly sharp bullshit detectors. They want a real choice, not personality politics. It’s time we gave the Just Society another look.

They did rather try to do that at the last election; the problem was that it was done in a cack-handed way at a time when the electorate were not interested in the message.

Which means that the PM (Cosgrave), AG (Costello) and foreign minister (Fitzgerald) of that government all held the same positions their fathers had 50 years before.

I also was rather taken aback at FG being “the party of ideas” – unless we count supporting the right to kill travellers as an “idea”, rather than pandering to hatred. (http://www.villagemagazine.ie/article.asp?sid=1&sud=40&aid=854)

I think Richard Bruton is about the only current senior member I’d have much time for – he also seems to be about all that’s left of any intellectual and social-democratic wing of the party.