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	<title>Comments on: Looking for outsourcing advice</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Being overqualified</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-169210</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Being overqualified</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-169210</guid>
		<description>[...] I was catching up with a friend recently who, after receiving a Master&#8217;s degree, decided to move to a professionally less-than-ideal location for personal reasons. She&#8217;s been doing okay by picking up work here and there, but it&#8217;s been a long process. She was explaining to me the frustrations of being told that you are overqualified for a job. I could definitely see her perspective and was nodding throughout her desciption of various recent experiences. But after the responses I received to my recent post here about outsourcing advice, I am starting to understand the other side&#8217;s position better. A few people emailed me offering their services. The problem is, pretty much all of them seem to be overqualified, which puts me in a difficult position. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] I was catching up with a friend recently who, after receiving a Master&#8217;s degree, decided to move to a professionally less-than-ideal location for personal reasons. She&#8217;s been doing okay by picking up work here and there, but it&#8217;s been a long process. She was explaining to me the frustrations of being told that you are overqualified for a job. I could definitely see her perspective and was nodding throughout her desciption of various recent experiences. But after the responses I received to my recent post here about outsourcing advice, I am starting to understand the other side&#8217;s position better. A few people emailed me offering their services. The problem is, pretty much all of them seem to be overqualified, which puts me in a difficult position. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-168366</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-168366</guid>
		<description>Jason, thanks for the information about oDesk. I did check it out when someone recommended it, but found hte 30% commission a bit high. I understand the upsides of the tool, but if I&#039;m not going to save in costs then I will likely opt for hiring someone locally. And given the prices, it doesn&#039;t look like I&#039;d save in costs.

Mitchell, again, the problem is that I doubt paying someone in Australia is going to save me money, but I appreciate the offer.

All of which is not to say that I&#039;m only interested in saving money. I&#039;m also curious to know what the options are in case I don&#039;t find enough people locally. (I guess at some level that&#039;s still cost-related. If I had an unlimited budget then I guess I&#039;d likely find people locally no matter what.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jason, thanks for the information about oDesk. I did check it out when someone recommended it, but found hte 30% commission a bit high. I understand the upsides of the tool, but if I&#8217;m not going to save in costs then I will likely opt for hiring someone locally. And given the prices, it doesn&#8217;t look like I&#8217;d save in costs.</p>

	<p>Mitchell, again, the problem is that I doubt paying someone in Australia is going to save me money, but I appreciate the offer.</p>

	<p>All of which is not to say that I&#8217;m only interested in saving money. I&#8217;m also curious to know what the options are in case I don&#8217;t find enough people locally. (I guess at some level that&#8217;s still cost-related. If I had an unlimited budget then I guess I&#8217;d likely find people locally no matter what.)</p>
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		<title>By: mitchell porter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-168343</link>
		<dc:creator>mitchell porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 05:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-168343</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got some advice: outsource to me! :-) I need the money, I&#039;ve done data entry, and I live in Brisbane, so you can check me out in person next month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve got some advice: outsource to me! :-) I need the money, I&#8217;ve done data entry, and I live in Brisbane, so you can check me out in person next month.</p>
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		<title>By: daelm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-168158</link>
		<dc:creator>daelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-168158</guid>
		<description>data capture for HCI studies, is what it was called when i was organising it. usability anthropology :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>data capture for <span class="caps">HCI</span> studies, is what it was called when i was organising it. usability anthropology :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Chicola</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167952</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Chicola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 21:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167952</guid>
		<description>Hi Eszter,

Your project sounds like Data Entry. There are many marketplaces that offer Data Entry workers, but here is why &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.odesk.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;oDesk&lt;/a&gt; is the site you should try:

(Full disclosure: I am oDesk’s Director of Marketing)

&lt;b&gt; Talent.&lt;/b&gt;  oDesk has over 3,000 providers with skills ranging from programming to tech writing to data entry.  Over 200 oDesk providers offer data entry services. You can choose from individual freelancers or a dedicated co-located team. Data entry workers typically charge $5-10/hour.  For example, &lt;a href=&quot;http://url.odesk.com/kiv8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click here&lt;/a&gt; to see a co-located firm that specializes data entry.  Check their oDesk Feedback score to see the ratings they received from their past clients.  

&lt;b&gt;Hourly Flexibility.&lt;/b&gt;  Most of the sites you listed offer fixed bid projects.  Fixed bid is problematic for ongoing data entry tasks – do you really know exactly how long your project will take to complete?  The vendors don’t either.  oDesk lets you hire workers on an hourly basis.  You can give them work for 1 hour, 100 hours, or 1,000 hours.  It’s totally flexible, and you can stop at any time.  There are no minimum commitments.

&lt;b&gt;Tools. &lt;/b&gt; oDesk is the only service that lets you see what the workers are doing.  Buyers can see screenshots of the workers activity.  This ensures that you only pay for time worked on your project, and also lets you spot check the work as it is performed, to ensure that your requirements are being met.

To learn more, watch our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.odesk.com/tour&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;video tour&lt;/a&gt;.

To get started, first &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.odesk.com/signup.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;create an account&lt;/a&gt;, and then post a job description. 

See what buyers &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.odesk.com/buyers_testimonials&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;have to say&lt;/a&gt; about oDesk.  

What do you think?  Is this what you’re looking for?  Is there anything about our site or service that you don’t like?  Let us know.  You can email me at jason[at]odesk[.]com

Regards,
Jason Chicola
Director of Marketing
www.odesk.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hi Eszter,</p>

	<p>Your project sounds like Data Entry. There are many marketplaces that offer Data Entry workers, but here is why <a href="http://www.odesk.com" rel="nofollow">oDesk</a> is the site you should try:</p>

	<p>(Full disclosure: I am oDesk&#8217;s Director of Marketing)</p>

	<p><b> Talent.</b>  oDesk has over 3,000 providers with skills ranging from programming to tech writing to data entry.  Over 200 oDesk providers offer data entry services. You can choose from individual freelancers or a dedicated co-located team. Data entry workers typically charge $5-10/hour.  For example, <a href="http://url.odesk.com/kiv8" rel="nofollow">click here</a> to see a co-located firm that specializes data entry.  Check their oDesk Feedback score to see the ratings they received from their past clients.</p>

	<p><b>Hourly Flexibility.</b>  Most of the sites you listed offer fixed bid projects.  Fixed bid is problematic for ongoing data entry tasks &#8211; do you really know exactly how long your project will take to complete?  The vendors don&#8217;t either.  oDesk lets you hire workers on an hourly basis.  You can give them work for 1 hour, 100 hours, or 1,000 hours.  It&#8217;s totally flexible, and you can stop at any time.  There are no minimum commitments.</p>

	<p><b>Tools. </b> oDesk is the only service that lets you see what the workers are doing.  Buyers can see screenshots of the workers activity.  This ensures that you only pay for time worked on your project, and also lets you spot check the work as it is performed, to ensure that your requirements are being met.</p>

	<p>To learn more, watch our <a href="http://www.odesk.com/tour" rel="nofollow">video tour</a>.</p>

	<p>To get started, first <a href="https://www.odesk.com/signup.php" rel="nofollow">create an account</a>, and then post a job description.</p>

	<p>See what buyers <a href="https://www.odesk.com/buyers_testimonials" rel="nofollow">have to say</a> about oDesk.</p>

	<p>What do you think?  Is this what you&#8217;re looking for?  Is there anything about our site or service that you don&#8217;t like?  Let us know.  You can email me at jason[at]odesk[.]com</p>

	<p>Regards,<br />
Jason Chicola<br />
Director of Marketing<br />
<a href="http://www.odesk.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.odesk.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167902</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167902</guid>
		<description>I posted this a few hours ago, but it&#039;s nowhere to be seen so here it goes again.

First, thanks for the various helpful suggestions.

Second, please note that I&#039;ve already done work of this sort and I will be the one using the output so yes, I am aware of what is the optimal format for later purposes.

Third, I have looked into automating the process, I have looked into it several times, in fact. But what I need is not that obvious to automate especially given the parameters of the project. So yes, while I do have keylogs of what people typed in, that is a TINY fraction of the data I need in the end. Of course, I continue to look for automated solutions and welcome feedback.  But please don&#039;t assume that I have no idea what I&#039;m doing here.

Fourth, I do hire undergrads, but wanted to look into some alternatives. Undergrads often have a lot of other things going on in their lives and aren&#039;t always as efficient as I&#039;d like. So while I&#039;ve had some great undergrad research assistants and will continue to work with them, I wanted to see what else may be available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I posted this a few hours ago, but it&#8217;s nowhere to be seen so here it goes again.</p>

	<p>First, thanks for the various helpful suggestions.</p>

	<p>Second, please note that I&#8217;ve already done work of this sort and I will be the one using the output so yes, I am aware of what is the optimal format for later purposes.</p>

	<p>Third, I have looked into automating the process, I have looked into it several times, in fact. But what I need is not that obvious to automate especially given the parameters of the project. So yes, while I do have keylogs of what people typed in, that is a <span class="caps">TINY</span> fraction of the data I need in the end. Of course, I continue to look for automated solutions and welcome feedback.  But please don&#8217;t assume that I have no idea what I&#8217;m doing here.</p>

	<p>Fourth, I do hire undergrads, but wanted to look into some alternatives. Undergrads often have a lot of other things going on in their lives and aren&#8217;t always as efficient as I&#8217;d like. So while I&#8217;ve had some great undergrad research assistants and will continue to work with them, I wanted to see what else may be available.</p>
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		<title>By: Zephania</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167878</link>
		<dc:creator>Zephania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167878</guid>
		<description>Data Entry

Have a look at http://www.getafreelancer.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Data Entry</p>

	<p>Have a look at <a href="http://www.getafreelancer.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.getafreelancer.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: nb</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167877</link>
		<dc:creator>nb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 13:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167877</guid>
		<description>My wife went through a similar problem last year when she needed to have survey data coded for her dissertation.  She ended up using a &quot;friend of a friend&quot; who had lots of data entry experience.  He did a great job and the price was pretty good--drop me a line if you want more info.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My wife went through a similar problem last year when she needed to have survey data coded for her dissertation.  She ended up using a &#8220;friend of a friend&#8221; who had lots of data entry experience.  He did a great job and the price was pretty good&#8212;drop me a line if you want more info.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167835</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 05:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167835</guid>
		<description>I maintain a detailed blog on IT and India and have written several articles on Outsourcing and India. You can either visit the &lt;a href=&quot;http://India-IT-Pulse.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;India IT Pulse&lt;/a&gt; or directly search for Outsourcing posts on the blog by clicking &lt;a href=&quot;http://search.blogger.com/?q=outsourcing+blogurl%3Aindia-it-pulse.blogspot.com&amp;btnG=Search+Blogs&amp;hl=en&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;x=261&amp;y=11&amp;scoring=d&amp;ui=blg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I maintain a detailed blog on IT and India and have written several articles on Outsourcing and India. You can either visit the <a href="http://India-IT-Pulse.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">India <span class="caps">IT </span>Pulse</a> or directly search for Outsourcing posts on the blog by clicking <a href="http://search.blogger.com/?q=outsourcing+blogurl%3Aindia-it-pulse.blogspot.com&#038;btnG=Search+Blogs&#038;hl=en&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;x=261&#038;y=11&#038;scoring=d&#038;ui=blg" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
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		<title>By: C. L. Ball</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167831</link>
		<dc:creator>C. L. Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 03:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167831</guid>
		<description>Let me get this straight: you video-captured the subjects actions rather than using a key-stroke recording program? Why didn&#039;t you (or hire someone to) modify one to produce the very data that you seek? 

Doesn&#039;t Northwestern have undergraduates? You&#039;re not asking them to do any interpretation, so they aren&#039;t really &quot;coding.&quot; Why &quot;outsource&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Let me get this straight: you video-captured the subjects actions rather than using a key-stroke recording program? Why didn&#8217;t you (or hire someone to) modify one to produce the very data that you seek?</p>

	<p>Doesn&#8217;t Northwestern have undergraduates? You&#8217;re not asking them to do any interpretation, so they aren&#8217;t really &#8220;coding.&#8221; Why &#8220;outsource&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Alex H.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167829</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167829</guid>
		<description>FWIW, I just finished bidding on something similar--well, not really similar, but human-based coding--over on RentACoder. There are lots of people on there who are interested (I got 15 bids). I plan on blogging how it turns out, but I think it&#039;s safe to assume there are people who are capable of coding (in the non-programmatic sense) and interested in it on RentACoder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">FWIW</span>, I just finished bidding on something similar&#8212;well, not really similar, but human-based coding&#8212;over on RentACoder. There are lots of people on there who are interested (I got 15 bids). I plan on blogging how it turns out, but I think it&#8217;s safe to assume there are people who are capable of coding (in the non-programmatic sense) and interested in it on RentACoder.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167819</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167819</guid>
		<description>Just read the link you provided to the area you are studying, sounds a lot like the things Jakob Nielsen talks about on his blog/website over at useit.com, you may well know his work but just in case you arent aware it could be useful to check it out briefly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just read the link you provided to the area you are studying, sounds a lot like the things Jakob Nielsen talks about on his blog/website over at useit.com, you may well know his work but just in case you arent aware it could be useful to check it out briefly.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167818</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167818</guid>
		<description>I think data entry is the most common term for this job, at least in the areas I work adjacent to (a lot of data added to the software I create is first written and then needs to be added to a database, it is usually transcribed into excel or equivalent).

As has been suggested take care in setting up your data entry form, whatever way you do it (asp, excel template, etc) its good to think about the terms you use being as simple and generic as possible as the person usually that will do most of the work isnt likely to be highly skilled or have niche knowledge or they wont be doing this job. Especially consider fields that need to be filled in where there is some level of judgement about the result, and try to either eliminate or clarify them. And of course try to minimise the free text fields in the form except where absolutely necessary, the entry should be from a list (or be numeric) wherever possible, or you are likely to end up with lots of variants of the same term.

After that you have to think about quality - and this obviously depends on how critical accuracy is for the task, the simplest way being to get a third party (or yourself) to check a sample of the data to estimate the level of accuracy, or the other extreme is to find a way to uniquely identify all rows of data that would be entered from the videos and then get the entire list done twice (by two completely unrelated people/organisations), and then have someone resolve all rows with discrepancies between the two entered lists. 

I am sure there are plenty of places to find people to do this sort of work, dont know any offhand as I all the companies I work with have their own internal staff to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think data entry is the most common term for this job, at least in the areas I work adjacent to (a lot of data added to the software I create is first written and then needs to be added to a database, it is usually transcribed into excel or equivalent).</p>

	<p>As has been suggested take care in setting up your data entry form, whatever way you do it (asp, excel template, etc) its good to think about the terms you use being as simple and generic as possible as the person usually that will do most of the work isnt likely to be highly skilled or have niche knowledge or they wont be doing this job. Especially consider fields that need to be filled in where there is some level of judgement about the result, and try to either eliminate or clarify them. And of course try to minimise the free text fields in the form except where absolutely necessary, the entry should be from a list (or be numeric) wherever possible, or you are likely to end up with lots of variants of the same term.</p>

	<p>After that you have to think about quality &#8211; and this obviously depends on how critical accuracy is for the task, the simplest way being to get a third party (or yourself) to check a sample of the data to estimate the level of accuracy, or the other extreme is to find a way to uniquely identify all rows of data that would be entered from the videos and then get the entire list done twice (by two completely unrelated people/organisations), and then have someone resolve all rows with discrepancies between the two entered lists.</p>

	<p>I am sure there are plenty of places to find people to do this sort of work, dont know any offhand as I all the companies I work with have their own internal staff to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: rented mule</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167815</link>
		<dc:creator>rented mule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 21:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167815</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m (supposed to be doing) this very kind of work right now.  I&#039;m on a temp assignment at Wells Fargo doing annotation and data entry.  It&#039;s grueling (sp?) work -- might I suggest that you pay whoever you hire at least $10 an hour?  I know I&#039;m not the best advertisement, surfing when I should be entering...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m (supposed to be doing) this very kind of work right now.  I&#8217;m on a temp assignment at Wells Fargo doing annotation and data entry.  It&#8217;s grueling (sp?) work&#8212;might I suggest that you pay whoever you hire at least $10 an hour?  I know I&#8217;m not the best advertisement, surfing when I should be entering&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob St. Amant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/08/looking-for-outsourcing-advice/comment-page-1/#comment-167808</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob St. Amant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/?p=5003#comment-167808</guid>
		<description>I think Matt&#039;s suggestions of using &quot;HCI&quot; and &quot;annotation&quot; are good; &quot;tagging&quot; is also a plausible term: &quot;video annotation&quot; or &quot;video tagging&quot;.  This is not an unusual task in the area of usability analysis; there are tools to help people do it (I think that Noldus is one of the best-known companies out there), but unfortunately, as one might imagine, the process is hard to automate completely, even for video captured from computer screens.  (It&#039;s obviously too late to suggest that logging software would have been a good thing to have.)

I&#039;m sure that this has been considered, but I&#039;ll mention anyway that more than one annotator is a good thing to have if there are any judgment calls to be made.

Finally, if I were doing this, I&#039;d advertise for undergraduates, at a rate comparable to what work study students get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think Matt&#8217;s suggestions of using &#8220;HCI&#8221; and &#8220;annotation&#8221; are good; &#8220;tagging&#8221; is also a plausible term: &#8220;video annotation&#8221; or &#8220;video tagging&#8221;.  This is not an unusual task in the area of usability analysis; there are tools to help people do it (I think that Noldus is one of the best-known companies out there), but unfortunately, as one might imagine, the process is hard to automate completely, even for video captured from computer screens.  (It&#8217;s obviously too late to suggest that logging software would have been a good thing to have.)</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m sure that this has been considered, but I&#8217;ll mention anyway that more than one annotator is a good thing to have if there are any judgment calls to be made.</p>

	<p>Finally, if I were doing this, I&#8217;d advertise for undergraduates, at a rate comparable to what work study students get.</p>
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