Comments on: Latter Day presidential candidates http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sat, 26 May 2012 21:58:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168085 Stephen M (Ethesis) Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:44:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168085 http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=681#more-681 is a good place to start to get more of a feel for the LDS. http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=681#more-681 is a good place to start to get more of a feel for the LDS.

]]> By: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168084 Stephen M (Ethesis) Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:26:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168084 BTW, the Senate minority leader is LDS (Mormon). So there are Democrats as well as Republicans that fit in the group. BTW, the Senate minority leader is LDS (Mormon). So there are Democrats as well as Republicans that fit in the group.

]]> By: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168083 Stephen M (Ethesis) Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:25:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168083 This has been fun to read, especially the comments. I ran across it updating myself as to what was on Crooked Timber, though Times & Seasons (a large LDS group blog) had linked to it and I expect that Feminist Mormon Housewives will as well. This has been fun to read, especially the comments. I ran across it updating myself as to what was on Crooked Timber, though Times & Seasons (a large LDS group blog) had linked to it and I expect that Feminist Mormon Housewives will as well.

]]> By: Martin James http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168074 Martin James Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:36:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168074 aaron_m and glenn, What, precisely, is the line where people make a different choice between a governor and a president. After all, if he could get elected as a Republican in the liberal state of MA, why will things go so different with the rest of the country. Aaron_m, you seem to be saying that you have no knowledge of specific policies favored by mormon politicians that are held in terms of religious beliefs, but that your knowledge of the social beliefs of certain mormons makes it likely that other mormons who are politicians would favor public policy dictated by similar beliefs. Hey, its a free country... aaron_m and glenn,

What, precisely, is the line where people make a different choice between a governor and a president.

After all, if he could get elected as a Republican in the liberal state of MA, why will things go so different with the rest of the country.

Aaron_m, you seem to be saying that you have no knowledge of specific policies favored by mormon politicians that are held in terms of religious beliefs, but that your knowledge of the social beliefs of certain mormons makes it likely that other mormons who are politicians would favor public policy dictated by similar beliefs.

Hey, its a free country…

]]> By: SamChevre http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168025 SamChevre Thu, 10 Aug 2006 13:10:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168025 My apologies for the stupid mis-statement in #17 about McCain being Catholic; I know quite well that he is not Catholic. Here's what I meant to say: McCain and Giuliani are both pro-choice (for those who disagree, that's the position of the NRLC--in the Republican primary, what NARAL thinks doesn't count). Giuliani is Catholic McCain is hated by the Republican bases' interest groups (NRA and Club for Growth especially) for his positions on campaign finance reform. My apologies for the stupid mis-statement in #17 about McCain being Catholic; I know quite well that he is not Catholic.

Here’s what I meant to say:
McCain and Giuliani are both pro-choice (for those who disagree, that’s the position of the NRLC—in the Republican primary, what NARAL thinks doesn’t count).
Giuliani is Catholic
McCain is hated by the Republican bases’ interest groups (NRA and Club for Growth especially) for his positions on campaign finance reform.

]]> By: Aaron_M http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168015 Aaron_M Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:39:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168015 I do not know what Romney believes socially or politically, but I do have experience with mormon’s and their social beliefs. As a basis for public policy mormon beliefs are unreasonable, e.g. there is no reasonable argument for appealing to mormon views on gender relations for public policy on things like access to day care, employment standards, etc…. To the degree that a mormon politician thinks that public policy ought to be based on the dictates of her faith, the content of her beliefs should be at the centre of the debate. I do not know what mormons think about politics but I am guessing the more public policy reflects their belief system the better. I guess the hope is that the prospect of a mormon president will force more of the American public into this kind of reasoning that sees religiously based public policy as unreasonable because mormons are a further step away from mainstream beliefs. Is this way too optimistic? I do not know what Romney believes socially or politically, but I do have experience with mormon’s and their social beliefs. As a basis for public policy mormon beliefs are unreasonable, e.g. there is no reasonable argument for appealing to mormon views on gender relations for public policy on things like access to day care, employment standards, etc…. To the degree that a mormon politician thinks that public policy ought to be based on the dictates of her faith, the content of her beliefs should be at the centre of the debate. I do not know what mormons think about politics but I am guessing the more public policy reflects their belief system the better. I guess the hope is that the prospect of a mormon president will force more of the American public into this kind of reasoning that sees religiously based public policy as unreasonable because mormons are a further step away from mainstream beliefs. Is this way too optimistic?

]]> By: EWI http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168014 EWI Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:22:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168014 <i>Perhaps it is viewed differently in America: does anyone know?</i> I believe that Jesus' General is an ex-Mormon... on the numbers, don't Mormons baptize the ancestors of converts as well? Do the long-dead involuntary converts get counted too? Perhaps it is viewed differently in America: does anyone know?

I believe that Jesus’ General is an ex-Mormon… on the numbers, don’t Mormons baptize the ancestors of converts as well? Do the long-dead involuntary converts get counted too?

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168010 Ray Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:28:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168010 The scary thing is that we're wondering whether Romney could be a candidate, and the doubt is not over the fact that he professes to believe a bunch of crazy things, but that they might be <b>the wrong brand of crazy</b> for lots of voters. The scary thing is that we’re wondering whether Romney could be a candidate, and the doubt is not over the fact that he professes to believe a bunch of crazy things, but that they might be the wrong brand of crazy for lots of voters.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168008 abb1 Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:21:24 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168008 <i>The general public will not feel comfortable with the idea of a mormon president.</i> Why, they sure feel comfortable with a <i>moron</i> president. The general public will not feel comfortable with the idea of a mormon president.

Why, they sure feel comfortable with a moron president.

]]> By: glenn http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168007 glenn Thu, 10 Aug 2006 09:12:05 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168007 Not a chance. A Romney candidacy would make the general public do a little bit of research on the religion and they'll come to the reasonable conclusion that it's a cult on steroids and those that follow the religion are seriously gullible and misguided, at best, or just plain out of their minds, with all due respect. Not a chance. A Romney candidacy would make the general public do a little bit of research on the religion and they’ll come to the reasonable conclusion that it’s a cult on steroids and those that follow the religion are seriously gullible and misguided, at best, or just plain out of their minds, with all due respect.

]]> By: Aaron_M http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-168003 Aaron_M Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:56:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-168003 Please, please, nominate a mormon. Who cares what the evangelicals think, nominating a mormon to president is stepping over the crazy religion line in the American sand. He would get absolutely creamed. The general public will not feel comfortable with the idea of a mormon president. Will they? … Please, please, nominate a mormon. Who cares what the evangelicals think, nominating a mormon to president is stepping over the crazy religion line in the American sand. He would get absolutely creamed. The general public will not feel comfortable with the idea of a mormon president.

Will they? …

]]> By: DivGuy http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-167997 DivGuy Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:59:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-167997 <i>If Romney gets to the general election, the Democrat will likely be pro-abortion, and that will make all of the difference.</i> Oh, sure. I think that a "pro-abortion" liberal will lose votes even to a "cultist" conservative. The question about Romney, as stated in the post above, is whether he'll make it to the general. I mean, everyone other than McCain is a longshot, but Romney's probably not going to get the base vote because of his religion, and you don't win primaries without the base. <i>the Republican coalition (low tax/social conservative/hawk)</i> That really is a strikingly incoherent set of issues. Don't fund the government, but have them set and enforce social policy domestically while starting lots of wars internationally. It's not a bad electoral strategy - obviously - but it's just about diametrically opposed to good governance. If Romney gets to the general election, the Democrat will likely be pro-abortion, and that will make all of the difference.

Oh, sure. I think that a “pro-abortion” liberal will lose votes even to a “cultist” conservative. The question about Romney, as stated in the post above, is whether he’ll make it to the general.

I mean, everyone other than McCain is a longshot, but Romney’s probably not going to get the base vote because of his religion, and you don’t win primaries without the base.

the Republican coalition (low tax/social conservative/hawk)

That really is a strikingly incoherent set of issues. Don’t fund the government, but have them set and enforce social policy domestically while starting lots of wars internationally. It’s not a bad electoral strategy – obviously – but it’s just about diametrically opposed to good governance.

]]> By: Thomas http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-167996 Thomas Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:39:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-167996 Russell, I misunderstood--I read you to be saying you saw Romney as a liberal, based on his record in MA. Russell, I misunderstood—I read you to be saying you saw Romney as a liberal, based on his record in MA.

]]> By: Greg Hunter http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-167995 Greg Hunter Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:34:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-167995 They are well entrenched, well respected, thick as thieves and they are ruthless - a winning combination. I think the religious right will cleave to them in the same manner that Catholics and Jews have been converted from Democrats to Republicans. It is like true apartheid, separate but equal. The differences between the groups will only play after they become successful. They have so many things going for them, ignorance of the other religions, a fascination with genetics, heredity and marketing. Go to the Temple in the Great Salt Lake - No ugly people allowed. They make the Catholics look like pikers. OY is what I say or God help us all! They are well entrenched, well respected, thick as thieves and they are ruthless – a winning combination. I think the religious right will cleave to them in the same manner that Catholics and Jews have been converted from Democrats to Republicans. It is like true apartheid, separate but equal. The differences between the groups will only play after they become successful.

They have so many things going for them, ignorance of the other religions, a fascination with genetics, heredity and marketing. Go to the Temple in the Great Salt Lake – No ugly people allowed.

They make the Catholics look like pikers.

OY is what I say or God help us all!

]]> By: Clark http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/comment-page-2/#comment-167994 Clark Thu, 10 Aug 2006 04:33:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/09/latter-day-presidential-candidates/#comment-167994 His experience with Kennedy the first swing around doesn't exactly inspire confidence of how Democrats would treat the religion, does it Russell? His experience with Kennedy the first swing around doesn’t exactly inspire confidence of how Democrats would treat the religion, does it Russell?

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