Comments on: Getting the Counterfactual Right http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:34:27 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Raven http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170854 Raven Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:16:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170854 Re #7: Michael, your first sentence should read “... motherlovin’ snakes on motherlovin’ planes.” Without the second “motherlovin’” the scansion is off. In your second sentence, I’m offended by the term “Herpetofascist.” Most snakes are Libertarians, though admittedly many of the venomous sorts have become Republicans. Re #7: Michael, your first sentence should read “… motherlovin’ snakes on motherlovin’ planes.” Without the second “motherlovin’” the scansion is off.

In your second sentence, I’m offended by the term “Herpetofascist.” Most snakes are Libertarians, though admittedly many of the venomous sorts have become Republicans.

]]> By: C. L. Ball http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170558 C. L. Ball Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:12:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170558 Flat? It opened as the #1 movie. And it grossed 40% more than the #3 film <i>World Trade Center</i>. And its producers are much happier than the ones who made <i>Pulse</i> right now. Flat? It opened as the #1 movie. And it grossed 40% more than the #3 film World Trade Center. And its producers are much happier than the ones who made Pulse right now.

]]> By: Ginger Yellow http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170541 Ginger Yellow Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:04:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170541 "Um, it’s time to note that the blogosphere is not one thing." Shhh. Don't let the cat out of the bag. Otherwise they might have to, you know, read the blogs they talk about. And the last thing anybody wants is Richard Cohen bloviating on Crooked Timber. “Um, it’s time to note that the blogosphere is not one thing.”

Shhh. Don’t let the cat out of the bag. Otherwise they might have to, you know, read the blogs they talk about. And the last thing anybody wants is Richard Cohen bloviating on Crooked Timber.

]]> By: skippy http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170477 skippy Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:01:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170477 <i>is this an interesting way of cross-commenting i haven’t heard about yet, skippy?</i> well, i try not to be a complete blogwhore. subtlety, doncha know. is this an interesting way of cross-commenting i haven’t heard about yet, skippy?

well, i try not to be a complete blogwhore. subtlety, doncha know.

]]> By: vivian http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170476 vivian Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:59:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170476 well, ok John, except it's not clear who was trying to infer breadth from intensity - except for the "not me" journalist types writing these articles. Besides, what Dsquared said. well, ok John, except it’s not clear who was trying to infer breadth from intensity – except for the “not me” journalist types writing these articles. Besides, what Dsquared said.

]]> By: The American Street » Blog Archive » mmm adhd http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170475 The American Street » Blog Archive » mmm adhd Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:56:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170475 [...] addendum: for further yada yada, check out ntodd and kieran healy. [...] [...] addendum: for further yada yada, check out ntodd and kieran healy. [...]

]]> By: john bragg http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170463 john bragg Thu, 31 Aug 2006 00:22:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170463 I think we're being rather unfair to Kluger. He's saying that, if you pay attention to the internet, you're liable to confuse intensity of support with breadth of support. Kruger argues that this is a result of the internet allowing people with similar obsessions to connect, and these connections form an echo chamber. And I don't think it was Kluger who set the victory condition as Lieberman quitting--it was various Lamont backers who are demanding that Lieberman quit or they'll, err, they'll be even madder at Lieberman. His point isn't about Lieberman or Samuel Jackson. His point is about not reading the internet as a proxy for the general audience. If you want "the right counterfactual", it was Snakes on a Plane having an opening weekend like Passion of the Christ, another high-hype, limited appeal, high motivation movie. I think we’re being rather unfair to Kluger. He’s saying that, if you pay attention to the internet, you’re liable to confuse intensity of support with breadth of support. Kruger argues that this is a result of the internet allowing people with similar obsessions to connect, and these connections form an echo chamber.

And I don’t think it was Kluger who set the victory condition as Lieberman quitting—it was various Lamont backers who are demanding that Lieberman quit or they’ll, err, they’ll be even madder at Lieberman.

His point isn’t about Lieberman or Samuel Jackson. His point is about not reading the internet as a proxy for the general audience.

If you want “the right counterfactual”, it was Snakes on a Plane having an opening weekend like Passion of the Christ, another high-hype, limited appeal, high motivation movie.

]]> By: Michael Bérubé http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170462 Michael Bérubé Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:58:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170462 <i>the half- life of comment threads makes me think they are more superficial than they should be</i> As if! Comments that comment disparagingly on comment threads are, like, <i>so</i> 3:21 pm. the half- life of comment threads makes me think they are more superficial than they should be

As if! Comments that comment disparagingly on comment threads are, like, so 3:21 pm.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170455 John Quiggin Wed, 30 Aug 2006 22:09:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170455 Even sillier is Kluger's implied victory condition for bloggers - not a win in the primary, or even in the general election, but inducing Lieberman not to run at all. If he had any guts, he would have predicted a Lieberman win, instead of which the best he can do is that "Lieberman is the man to beat", and that, having attained that status (at least in Kluger's eyes) he has already beaten the bloggers. Even sillier is Kluger’s implied victory condition for bloggers – not a win in the primary, or even in the general election, but inducing Lieberman not to run at all.

If he had any guts, he would have predicted a Lieberman win, instead of which the best he can do is that “Lieberman is the man to beat”, and that, having attained that status (at least in Kluger’s eyes) he has already beaten the bloggers.

]]> By: Theron http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170447 Theron Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:27:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170447 I can also imagine that SOP probably has better odds of living on in semi-cult status because of all the blog attention. You'd think Kluger had missed, oh, the last 30 years in the evolution of the movie business I can also imagine that SOP probably has better odds of living on in semi-cult status because of all the blog attention. You’d think Kluger had missed, oh, the last 30 years in the evolution of the movie business

]]> By: Martin James http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170446 Martin James Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:21:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170446 I don't know how influential blogs are but the half- life of comment threads makes me think they are more superficial than they should be. Old school news is likewise timely, but no one really looks to journalism for ideas. Does this just reflect that all writing and cultural communication has a very short shelf-life these days? Where are the theories and ideas that will stand the test of time? I don’t know how influential blogs are but the half- life of comment threads makes me think they are more superficial than they should be.

Old school news is likewise timely, but no one really looks to journalism for ideas.

Does this just reflect that all writing and cultural communication has a very short shelf-life these days?

Where are the theories and ideas that will stand the test of time?

]]> By: novakant http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170444 novakant Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:17:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170444 is this an interesting way of cross-commenting I haven't heard about yet, skippy? is this an interesting way of cross-commenting I haven’t heard about yet, skippy?

]]> By: Outside The Beltway | OTB http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170437 Outside The Beltway | OTB Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:21:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170437 <strong>Snakes on a Blog...</strong> Writing for USA Today, Bruce Kluger uses some rather strained logic to argue that the power of the blogosphere is largely mythological. His evidence? Bloggers failed to kill of Joe Lieberman’s independent campaign for the Senate and “Snak... Snakes on a Blog…

Writing for USA Today, Bruce Kluger uses some rather strained logic to argue that the power of the blogosphere is largely mythological. His evidence? Bloggers failed to kill of Joe Lieberman’s independent campaign for the Senate and “Snak…

]]> By: The Ugly American http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170432 The Ugly American Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:09:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170432 Like I told Skippy. Glad to see <a href="http://therealuglyamerican.com/2006/08/30/msm-still-doesnt-get-what-blogging-is-about/" rel="nofollow">we can agree on something</a>. Like I told Skippy. Glad to see we can agree on something.

]]> By: skippy http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/comment-page-1/#comment-170430 skippy Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:44:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/30/getting-the-counterfactual-right/#comment-170430 as i said on <a href="http://www.dohiyimir.org/2006/08/motherfucking_l.html#comments" rel="nofollow">ntodd's blog</a>, even more to the point, to compare lamont's run against the de-facto repubbb lieberman to the opening weekend (#1, may i remind everyone) of a grade b throw-away summer popcorn flick is ludicrous. to use the two disperate phenomenae to measure some sort of vague and ill-defined "blogger success rate" is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant the energy it took me to write this sentence. certainly not the energy it took to write <a href="http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2006/08/mmm-adhd.html" rel="nofollow">this blog post</a>. as i said on ntodd’s blog,

even more to the point, to compare lamont’s run against the de-facto repubbb lieberman to the opening weekend (#1, may i remind everyone) of a grade b throw-away summer popcorn flick is ludicrous. to use the two disperate phenomenae to measure some sort of vague and ill-defined “blogger success rate” is so ridiculous that it doesn’t even warrant the energy it took me to write this sentence.

certainly not the energy it took to write this blog post.

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