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	<title>Comments on: Contra Miss Manners, I Consider Tasteful Personalized Stationery Acceptable</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:24:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-171065</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-171065</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/04/german_racists_use_s.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; in from BoingBoing. &quot;We&quot; need to get those bumper stickers out pronto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/04/german_racists_use_s.html" rel="nofollow">This</a> in from BoingBoing. &#8220;We&#8221; need to get those bumper stickers out pronto.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-171009</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 14:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>wait, WHAT? who did that? when? I must know more, because that&#039;s kryptonite crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>wait, <span class="caps">WHAT</span>? who did that? when? I must know more, because that&#8217;s kryptonite crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: theogon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170961</link>
		<dc:creator>theogon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 19:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170961</guid>
		<description>Getting back to the mockery, did anybody see the post where the one fellow tried to make a point about feminism by quoting David Sim? Some people are just too precious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Getting back to the mockery, did anybody see the post where the one fellow tried to make a point about feminism by quoting David Sim? Some people are just too precious.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Bloom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170957</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 18:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Belle,

Looking forward to reading your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Belle,</p>

	<p>Looking forward to reading your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170886</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 03:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170886</guid>
		<description>ok molly, I was thinking of posting seriously on the topic anyway so I&#039;ll give it a go later this week. douthat invited the mockery on this one, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ok molly, I was thinking of posting seriously on the topic anyway so I&#8217;ll give it a go later this week. douthat invited the mockery on this one, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Bloom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170858</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170858</guid>
		<description>Belle,

Yes, I understand that the point of your post was simply to mock Ross Douthat, but instead of merely mocking the non sequiturs -- which you did quite well in the opening salvo -- you proceeded to the rather tired and unjustified accusation that Douthat was anti-sex (unjustified, at least, by the post you linked to).  And the fact that the world was not created ex nihilo moments before Ross posted . . . well, while that&#039;s a clever justification for the hackneyed rhetorical ploy (&quot;Ross is anti-sex and a hypocrite and probably not getting any!&quot;), it seems to dispense with the requirement to respond to, or mock, what Ross actually said by diverting our attention to the Big C Catholic philosophy which Ross supposedly espouses.  Big C Catholic philosophy *may* be anti-sex, but as far as I know, you&#039;ve never bothered to post a devastating, point-by-point critique of it.  What, for instance, is the &quot;big C Catholic&quot; view of women&#039;s sexual autonomy?

I know I&#039;m making a fuss over a post that was meant only to make fun of a bad argument, or string of non sequiturs.  But as someone who regularly reads both Ross&#039;s blog and Crooked Timber, I get kind of weary of the &quot;let&#039;s mock the other side&quot; reflex.  

I am a woman who happens to think that the sexual and cultural revolution was a &quot;mixed bag&quot; for women (good for the lives of privileged white women, bad for the lives of poor women, poor minorities, and their children -- and for a good number of the children of privileged white women).  And maybe it&#039;s partly because the fomenters of the revolution treated the world as if it were created ex nihilo after the Pill and &quot;women&#039;s lib,&quot; as though sexism wouldn&#039;t survive into the era of the new sexual utopia.  And maybe it&#039;s partly because the fomenters of revolution relied too heavily on the blank slate model of human nature.  And maybe it&#039;s partly because the fomenters of revolution were too willing to trash &quot;traditional morality.&quot; 

I don&#039;t know, but it would be nice, for a change, to see an intelligent person like you actually engage a socially conservative critique of the &quot;sexual revolution&quot; without taking the easy, mocking way out. 

You&#039;re certainly right, however, that Ross&#039;s post was not the one to engage, and it&#039;s your prerogative to blog about whatever you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Belle,</p>

	<p>Yes, I understand that the point of your post was simply to mock Ross Douthat, but instead of merely mocking the non sequiturs&#8212;which you did quite well in the opening salvo&#8212;you proceeded to the rather tired and unjustified accusation that Douthat was anti-sex (unjustified, at least, by the post you linked to).  And the fact that the world was not created ex nihilo moments before Ross posted . . . well, while that&#8217;s a clever justification for the hackneyed rhetorical ploy (&#8220;Ross is anti-sex and a hypocrite and probably not getting any!&#8221;), it seems to dispense with the requirement to respond to, or mock, what Ross actually said by diverting our attention to the Big C Catholic philosophy which Ross supposedly espouses.  Big C Catholic philosophy <strong>may</strong> be anti-sex, but as far as I know, you&#8217;ve never bothered to post a devastating, point-by-point critique of it.  What, for instance, is the &#8220;big C Catholic&#8221; view of women&#8217;s sexual autonomy?</p>

	<p>I know I&#8217;m making a fuss over a post that was meant only to make fun of a bad argument, or string of non sequiturs.  But as someone who regularly reads both Ross&#8217;s blog and Crooked Timber, I get kind of weary of the &#8220;let&#8217;s mock the other side&#8221; reflex.</p>

	<p>I am a woman who happens to think that the sexual and cultural revolution was a &#8220;mixed bag&#8221; for women (good for the lives of privileged white women, bad for the lives of poor women, poor minorities, and their children&#8212;and for a good number of the children of privileged white women).  And maybe it&#8217;s partly because the fomenters of the revolution treated the world as if it were created ex nihilo after the Pill and &#8220;women&#8217;s lib,&#8221; as though sexism wouldn&#8217;t survive into the era of the new sexual utopia.  And maybe it&#8217;s partly because the fomenters of revolution relied too heavily on the blank slate model of human nature.  And maybe it&#8217;s partly because the fomenters of revolution were too willing to trash &#8220;traditional morality.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know, but it would be nice, for a change, to see an intelligent person like you actually engage a socially conservative critique of the &#8220;sexual revolution&#8221; without taking the easy, mocking way out.</p>

	<p>You&#8217;re certainly right, however, that Ross&#8217;s post was not the one to engage, and it&#8217;s your prerogative to blog about whatever you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170851</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 15:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170851</guid>
		<description>molly: if you really need an explanation as to why I didn&#039;t spend my time calling roy edroso out on the weakly implicit claim that men and lesbians are the main or sole beneficiaries of the sexual revolution, rather than mocking douthat&#039;s bizarre non sequiturs, it&#039;s because the stuff douthat said was &lt;em&gt;a lot funnier&lt;/em&gt;. did you see the part where he blames the archetypally sexist bad behavior of priviledged white men on a motley collection of feminists, hippies, irritating english professors and possibly misguided sociologists? cuz that was &lt;em&gt;off the chain!!!1!&lt;/em&gt;. you&#039;re right that the more neutral bumper sticker &quot;if you enjoy oral sex, thank a liberal&quot; would be preferable from the point of view of more truthfully implying that &lt;em&gt;everyone&lt;/em&gt; benefitted from the loosening of sexual mores in the &#039;60s and &#039;70s*, but I have a sneaking suspicion roy just wanted to say &quot;pussy&quot;. blogging is funny like that sometimes. finally, yes, statements from someone who embraces a captial C Catholic view on abortion rights, contraception, and women&#039;s sexual autonomy will get the uncharitable reading from me. life is too short to pretend that the world was created ex nihilo moments before douthat posted. the moral of the story is: pandas are teh cute.
*except mr. douthat, presumably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>molly: if you really need an explanation as to why I didn&#8217;t spend my time calling roy edroso out on the weakly implicit claim that men and lesbians are the main or sole beneficiaries of the sexual revolution, rather than mocking douthat&#8217;s bizarre non sequiturs, it&#8217;s because the stuff douthat said was <em>a lot funnier</em>. did you see the part where he blames the archetypally sexist bad behavior of priviledged white men on a motley collection of feminists, hippies, irritating english professors and possibly misguided sociologists? cuz that was <em>off the chain<img src="!" alt="" border="0" />1!</em>. you&#8217;re right that the more neutral bumper sticker &#8220;if you enjoy oral sex, thank a liberal&#8221; would be preferable from the point of view of more truthfully implying that <em>everyone</em> benefitted from the loosening of sexual mores in the &#8216;60s and &#8216;70s*, but I have a sneaking suspicion roy just wanted to say &#8220;pussy&#8221;. blogging is funny like that sometimes. finally, yes, statements from someone who embraces a captial C Catholic view on abortion rights, contraception, and women&#8217;s sexual autonomy will get the uncharitable reading from me. life is too short to pretend that the world was created ex nihilo moments before douthat posted. the moral of the story is: pandas are teh cute.</p>
	<p>*except mr. douthat, presumably.</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170828</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 07:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170828</guid>
		<description>Molly Bloom: Of course I&#039;m right. Wait, what was your point again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Molly Bloom: Of course I&#8217;m right. Wait, what was your point again?</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Bloom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170824</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 06:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170824</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, bi.  It&#039;s only Ross Douthat&#039;s posts (and my comments) that are &quot;telling.&quot;  And Roy Edroso is just a cute panda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re right, bi.  It&#8217;s only Ross Douthat&#8217;s posts (and my comments) that are &#8220;telling.&#8221;  And Roy Edroso is just a cute panda.</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170823</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 06:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170823</guid>
		<description>Molly Bloom: oh, nothing. But I find it interesting that you automatically, reflexly assume that I hate cute pandas. Now &lt;em&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; what I call &quot;telling&quot; -- at least with regard to your thought patterns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Molly Bloom: oh, nothing. But I find it interesting that you automatically, reflexly assume that I hate cute pandas. Now <em>that&#8217;s</em> what I call &#8220;telling&#8221;&#8212;at least with regard to your thought patterns.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly Bloom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170822</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 06:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170822</guid>
		<description>And what have you got against cute pandas, bi -- especially since we were already looking at them anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And what have you got against cute pandas, bi&#8212;especially since we were already looking at them anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170808</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 03:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170808</guid>
		<description>To summarize Molly Bloom: &quot;here, just &lt;a href=&quot;http://fzort.org/bi/neo-tech/act3.html#act3arioso4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;look at the cute panda&lt;/a&gt;!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To summarize Molly Bloom: &#8220;here, just <a href="http://fzort.org/bi/neo-tech/act3.html#act3arioso4" rel="nofollow">look at the cute panda</a>!&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Molly Bloom</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170801</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Bloom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170801</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Belle, I understood the point of your &quot;cold appraisal,&quot; but since Roy&#039;s construction of the beneficiaries of liberalism was male and/or lesbian to begin with -- despite what you might think about the likelihood of men being thankful to be able to &quot;eat more pussy&quot; -- I found it interesting that you ignored Roy&#039;s oddly telling construction in favor of the &quot;Ross-Douthat-hates-sex-and-is-probably-a-hypocrite&quot; reflex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, Belle, I understood the point of your &#8220;cold appraisal,&#8221; but since Roy&#8217;s construction of the beneficiaries of liberalism was male and/or lesbian to begin with&#8212;despite what you might think about the likelihood of men being thankful to be able to &#8220;eat more pussy&#8221;&#8212;I found it interesting that you ignored Roy&#8217;s oddly telling construction in favor of the &#8220;Ross-Douthat-hates-sex-and-is-probably-a-hypocrite&#8221; reflex.</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170757</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170757</guid>
		<description>yeah, I finally remedied our lack of one; we just had sexual politics before. I blame my inherent laziness for not having done it sooner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>yeah, I finally remedied our lack of one; we just had sexual politics before. I blame my inherent laziness for not having done it sooner.</p>
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		<title>By: ingrid robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/comment-page-1/#comment-170753</link>
		<dc:creator>ingrid robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/08/31/contra-miss-manners-i-consider-tasteful-personalized-stationery-acceptable/#comment-170753</guid>
		<description>Feminism -- a new category on Crooked Timber?! This is great news - I can&#039;t wait to see what follows under this category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Feminism&#8212;a new category on Crooked Timber?! This is great news &#8211; I can&#8217;t wait to see what follows under this category.</p>
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