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	<title>Comments on: Greece 101 &#8212; USA 95</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Jason Stanley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170954</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Sep 2006 17:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170954</guid>
		<description>&quot;Maybe the better team won the day&quot;

Hah. Three points: (1) The Greeks were playing over their heads, as the final demonstrated. (2) The one-and-done format isn&#039;t a way to determine the best team, as those of us who remember Villanova and N.C. State in the 1980s can attest. (3) And once Kobe joins this team in 2008, it will be lights out for the rest of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Maybe the better team won the day&#8221;</p>

	<p>Hah. Three points: (1) The Greeks were playing over their heads, as the final demonstrated. (2) The one-and-done format isn&#8217;t a way to determine the best team, as those of us who remember Villanova and N.C. State in the 1980s can attest. (3) And once Kobe joins this team in 2008, it will be lights out for the rest of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170847</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Sep 2006 14:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170847</guid>
		<description>Maybe the better team won on the day?

The English rugby team draws from a player base at least ten times larger than the Australian and New Zealand teams, and is routinely thumped by either (with the early part of this decade an honorable exception).  Player base is no measure of national team strength.

Neither is tradition.  Again taking rugby union as an example, the Welsh and South Africans have learned this the hard way.

No team is entitled to dominate a sport.  You have to have good players, good tactics and strategy, respect your opposition and play to your strengths and their weaknesses.  It also helps if you&#039;re lucky (how the ball bounces off the rim, or for rugby and football, off the ground).  

Given all this, a healthy dose of humility helps you to enjoy the highs and move positively and gracefully through the inevitable lows.  Kipling knew what he was on about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maybe the better team won on the day?</p>

	<p>The English rugby team draws from a player base at least ten times larger than the Australian and New Zealand teams, and is routinely thumped by either (with the early part of this decade an honorable exception).  Player base is no measure of national team strength.</p>

	<p>Neither is tradition.  Again taking rugby union as an example, the Welsh and South Africans have learned this the hard way.</p>

	<p>No team is entitled to dominate a sport.  You have to have good players, good tactics and strategy, respect your opposition and play to your strengths and their weaknesses.  It also helps if you&#8217;re lucky (how the ball bounces off the rim, or for rugby and football, off the ground).</p>

	<p>Given all this, a healthy dose of humility helps you to enjoy the highs and move positively and gracefully through the inevitable lows.  Kipling knew what he was on about.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170758</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170758</guid>
		<description>andrew l.

If you shoot 59% from the free throw line and 32% from 3 point range against a team that shoots 70% from the field in the last three quarters you deserve to lose.

Unfortunately too many American basketball players don&#039;t play the fundamentals well. Through Tuesday&#039;s stats &lt;b&gt;not one&lt;/b&gt; US player was in the top 10 in free throw percentage for this competition.

&lt;i&gt;Its hard to criticize NBA players for not playing in the international competition. If you’re Kevin Garnett, that could take years off your career and cost you $30-50 million dollars.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh please. Major professional soccer players in Europe like Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry and numerous others play regular league games, League Cup games as well as Champions League or UEFA Cup games from August to May and consider it an honor to play for their national team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>andrew l.</p>

	<p>If you shoot 59% from the free throw line and 32% from 3 point range against a team that shoots 70% from the field in the last three quarters you deserve to lose.</p>

	<p>Unfortunately too many American basketball players don&#8217;t play the fundamentals well. Through Tuesday&#8217;s stats <b>not one</b> US player was in the top 10 in free throw percentage for this competition.</p>

	<p><i>Its hard to criticize <span class="caps">NBA</span> players for not playing in the international competition. If you&#8217;re Kevin Garnett, that could take years off your career and cost you $30-50 million dollars.</i></p>

	<p>Oh please. Major professional soccer players in Europe like Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry and numerous others play regular league games, League Cup games as well as Champions League or <span class="caps">UEFA </span>Cup games from August to May and consider it an honor to play for their national team.</p>
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		<title>By: mijnheer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170708</link>
		<dc:creator>mijnheer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 01:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170708</guid>
		<description>Basketball: a game invented by a Canadian and played best by Europeans, Argentinians, and Steve Nash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Basketball: a game invented by a Canadian and played best by Europeans, Argentinians, and Steve Nash.</p>
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		<title>By: Delicious Pundit</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170694</link>
		<dc:creator>Delicious Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 22:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170694</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.themightymjd.com/2006/09/01/break-out-the-olive-oil/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Mighty MJD&lt;/a&gt; had the best wrapup of things, I thought: &lt;blockquote&gt;This had nothing to do with poor attitudes, or lack of effort, or lack of team unity… none of those things that get unfairly applied to NBA players. The fact of the matter is that the Greeks play with a continuity and intelligence that takes literally years for a team to develop, and that they had better fundamentals. And it was just proven, beyond any doubt, that you can’t put an all-star team together and make up for that difference, no matter how talented those all-stars are, in three or four weeks. You just can’t.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.themightymjd.com/2006/09/01/break-out-the-olive-oil/" rel="nofollow">The Mighty <span class="caps">MJD</span></a> had the best wrapup of things, I thought: <blockquote>This had nothing to do with poor attitudes, or lack of effort, or lack of team unity&#8230; none of those things that get unfairly applied to <span class="caps">NBA</span> players. The fact of the matter is that the Greeks play with a continuity and intelligence that takes literally years for a team to develop, and that they had better fundamentals. And it was just proven, beyond any doubt, that you can&#8217;t put an all-star team together and make up for that difference, no matter how talented those all-stars are, in three or four weeks. You just can&#8217;t.</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: gordon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170684</link>
		<dc:creator>gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170684</guid>
		<description>Hey,hate to admit it but greek team rocks.Anyway,some info about thiz babyShaq guy??HE iZ da bomb like Hiroshima.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey,hate to admit it but greek team rocks.Anyway,some info about thiz babyShaq guy??HE iZ da bomb like Hiroshima.</p>
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		<title>By: pg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170683</link>
		<dc:creator>pg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170683</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s worth mentioning that this was not a total fluke (unlike Euro 04 in football) by Greece. Greece has become one of the strongest basketball teams in Europe since winning the European championship in 86, which they won again in 04.

And the Greek teams Panathinaikos and Olympiakos have been dominating the European cup/Euroleague from the early 90s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s worth mentioning that this was not a total fluke (unlike Euro 04 in football) by Greece. Greece has become one of the strongest basketball teams in Europe since winning the European championship in 86, which they won again in 04.</p>

	<p>And the Greek teams Panathinaikos and Olympiakos have been dominating the European cup/Euroleague from the early 90s.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptic Ned</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170682</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptic Ned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 20:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170682</guid>
		<description>A lovable loser from the world of sports, who was quick with a quip about what a loser he was?  Maybe Bob Uecker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A lovable loser from the world of sports, who was quick with a quip about what a loser he was?  Maybe Bob Uecker.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170680</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170680</guid>
		<description>Derek - no, but I can see why you&#039;d think so. After I posted that I suddenly thought that I could be misconstrued on that score, but clarifying just seemed too much labor. I was just trying to come up with a 50s/60s American equivalent for a &quot;public figure who cheerfully exposed their weaknesses - consciously or unconsciously - for general merriment.&quot; American sports doesn&#039;t really (or at least, I couldn&#039;t think of any) suffer gormless, harmless, loveable losers gladly, so I couldn&#039;t think of someone from that sphere. Having described Our &#039;Enery as such, though, LB and PS are both way off the mark. Oooof. 

Tommy Cooper was a fine man, all the same. He wore a fez and made deadpan, daft jokes like these:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/humour/cooper.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Derek &#8211; no, but I can see why you&#8217;d think so. After I posted that I suddenly thought that I could be misconstrued on that score, but clarifying just seemed too much labor. I was just trying to come up with a 50s/60s American equivalent for a &#8220;public figure who cheerfully exposed their weaknesses &#8211; consciously or unconsciously &#8211; for general merriment.&#8221; American sports doesn&#8217;t really (or at least, I couldn&#8217;t think of any) suffer gormless, harmless, loveable losers gladly, so I couldn&#8217;t think of someone from that sphere. Having described Our &#8216;Enery as such, though, LB and PS are both way off the mark. Oooof.</p>

	<p>Tommy Cooper was a fine man, all the same. He wore a fez and made deadpan, daft jokes like these:<br />
<a href="http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/humour/cooper.html" rel="nofollow">http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/humour/cooper.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: And now for something completely different at Σπιτάκι</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170677</link>
		<dc:creator>And now for something completely different at Σπιτάκι</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170677</guid>
		<description>[...] Από το Crooked Timber:  Somewhere in Athens, the Greek counterpart of Bjørge Lillelien is shouting into a radio mike, &#8220;Thomas Jefferson, William Hearst, Herbert Hoover, Warren Harding, Muhammad Ali, Paris Hilton—we have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! George Bush can you hear me? … Your boys took a hell of a beating!&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] &#913;&#960;ό &#964;&#959; Crooked Timber:  Somewhere in Athens, the Greek counterpart of Bj&#248;rge Lillelien is shouting into a radio mike, &#8220;Thomas Jefferson, William Hearst, Herbert Hoover, Warren Harding, Muhammad Ali, Paris Hilton&#8212;we have beaten them all! We have beaten them all! George Bush can you hear me? &#8230; Your boys took a hell of a beating!&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: derek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170675</link>
		<dc:creator>derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170675</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;who in hell would be the equivalent of Henry Cooper as decent public clown? Phil Silvers?&lt;/i&gt;

Are you getting Henry Cooper mixed up with Tommy Cooper? &#039;Enery was a heavyweight boxer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>who in hell would be the equivalent of Henry Cooper as decent public clown? Phil Silvers?</i></p>

	<p>Are you getting Henry Cooper mixed up with Tommy Cooper? &#8216;Enery was a heavyweight boxer.</p>
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		<title>By: mpowell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170672</link>
		<dc:creator>mpowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170672</guid>
		<description>Its hard to criticize NBA players for not playing in the international competition.  If you&#039;re Kevin Garnett, that could take years off your career and cost you $30-50 million dollars.  I know these guys are wealthy, but that&#039;s still a lot of money.  People downplay the injury concerns and fatigue factor of offseason play, but it is actually very serious for a pro player.  That recovery time is critical to a player&#039;s longevity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Its hard to criticize <span class="caps">NBA</span> players for not playing in the international competition.  If you&#8217;re Kevin Garnett, that could take years off your career and cost you $30-50 million dollars.  I know these guys are wealthy, but that&#8217;s still a lot of money.  People downplay the injury concerns and fatigue factor of offseason play, but it is actually very serious for a pro player.  That recovery time is critical to a player&#8217;s longevity.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew l.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170671</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew l.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170671</guid>
		<description>This group of USA player really &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; play well together as a team.  Several players who could have been big egos -- LeBron, Carmello, D. Wade, Elton Brand, Kirk Hinrich, -- were willing to sacrifice starter positions and share the ball.  Look at the second half of most of their games.  

Re: a-ro&#039;s comments.  You&#039;re absolutely right.  The 100,000 best basketball players in the U.S. could beat the 10,000 best players anywhere else in the world.  When it comes down to some subset of the 50 best players in each country, it can often be a question of luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This group of <span class="caps">USA</span> player really <i>did</i> play well together as a team.  Several players who could have been big egos&#8212;LeBron, Carmello, D. Wade, Elton Brand, Kirk Hinrich,&#8212;were willing to sacrifice starter positions and share the ball.  Look at the second half of most of their games.</p>

	<p>Re: a-ro&#8217;s comments.  You&#8217;re absolutely right.  The 100,000 best basketball players in the U.S. could beat the 10,000 best players anywhere else in the world.  When it comes down to some subset of the 50 best players in each country, it can often be a question of luck.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170656</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170656</guid>
		<description>Shouldn’t it be more like: “Ulysses S. Grant, William Hearst, Franklin Roosevelt, Alexander Haig, John F. Kennedy, Lucille Ball [who in hell would be the equivalent of Henry Cooper as decent public clown? Phil Silvers? ...], John F. Kennedy [again]..., your boys, etc...”  
Bravo Greece!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shouldn&#8217;t it be more like: &#8220;Ulysses S. Grant, William Hearst, Franklin Roosevelt, Alexander Haig, John F. Kennedy, Lucille Ball [who in hell would be the equivalent of Henry Cooper as decent public clown? Phil Silvers? ...], John F. Kennedy [again]&#8230;, your boys, etc&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Bravo Greece!</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/comment-page-1/#comment-170653</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/01/greece-101-usa-95/#comment-170653</guid>
		<description>Lukas,

They don&#039;t play well as a team?  They&#039;ve just won 12 straight games by double digits, averaging 27 points a victory during FIBA and more than that in the exhibitions.  A loss to the Euro champion by 6 after a poor day at the charity stripe isn&#039;t particularly humiliating.  

In 04, when the US lost to teams like Puerto Rico, it&#039;s fair to say they weren&#039;t playing as a team.  But even after this victory, I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll find many commentators, particularly outside the US, who would spot the US points in a matchup against anybody.

One interesting thing I&#039;ve seen this year is that there are now a few NBA level talents making enough overseas that they aren&#039;t coming to play stateside; the Greek at CSKA Moscow and Navarro at Barcelona are good examples.  As a Celtic fan, I wouldn&#039;t mind the Celts bringing over Baby Shaq/Sophocles, as he certainly looked good today and the Celts drafted him a few years back when he was 18.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lukas,</p>

	<p>They don&#8217;t play well as a team?  They&#8217;ve just won 12 straight games by double digits, averaging 27 points a victory during <span class="caps">FIBA</span> and more than that in the exhibitions.  A loss to the Euro champion by 6 after a poor day at the charity stripe isn&#8217;t particularly humiliating.</p>

	<p>In 04, when the US lost to teams like Puerto Rico, it&#8217;s fair to say they weren&#8217;t playing as a team.  But even after this victory, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll find many commentators, particularly outside the US, who would spot the US points in a matchup against anybody.</p>

	<p>One interesting thing I&#8217;ve seen this year is that there are now a few <span class="caps">NBA</span> level talents making enough overseas that they aren&#8217;t coming to play stateside; the Greek at <span class="caps">CSKA </span>Moscow and Navarro at Barcelona are good examples.  As a Celtic fan, I wouldn&#8217;t mind the Celts bringing over Baby Shaq/Sophocles, as he certainly looked good today and the Celts drafted him a few years back when he was 18.</p>
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