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	<title>Comments on: What makes a town a town?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Kenny Easwaran</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172320</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Easwaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172320</guid>
		<description>Hmm... in my four years at Stanford I picked up the habit of referring to &quot;the 101&quot; and &quot;the 280&quot;, and I do it for East Bay highways too (I still haven&#039;t gotten used to the California term &quot;freeway&quot;).  Which is odd, because everyone tells me that&#039;s a SoCal thing.  But I guess Stanford mixes the parts of California enough that you find SoCal people saying &quot;hella&quot; and NorCalers taking &quot;the 280&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmm&#8230; in my four years at Stanford I picked up the habit of referring to &#8220;the 101&#8221; and &#8220;the 280&#8221;, and I do it for East Bay highways too (I still haven&#8217;t gotten used to the California term &#8220;freeway&#8221;).  Which is odd, because everyone tells me that&#8217;s a SoCal thing.  But I guess Stanford mixes the parts of California enough that you find SoCal people saying &#8220;hella&#8221; and NorCalers taking &#8220;the 280&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: bemused</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172254</link>
		<dc:creator>bemused</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 03:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172254</guid>
		<description>Hey Sunita, you live in my neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey Sunita, you live in my neighborhood.</p>
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		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Road trip highlights</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172225</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Road trip highlights</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172225</guid>
		<description>[...] The highlight in Wyoming was Buford, population: 2, elevation: 8,000 feet, as I described earlier. I honestly had absolutely no idea how high up we were until I saw the sign. As commenter jr noted, eastern Wyoming is part of a very large plateau and that&#8217;s why one doesn&#8217;t feel the ascent so much. This map helps with visualization. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] The highlight in Wyoming was Buford, population: 2, elevation: 8,000 feet, as I described earlier. I honestly had absolutely no idea how high up we were until I saw the sign. As commenter jr noted, eastern Wyoming is part of a very large plateau and that&#8217;s why one doesn&#8217;t feel the ascent so much. This map helps with visualization. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172221</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172221</guid>
		<description>I overnighted in Rock Springs, actually.:)  It was nearly impossible to find a place to stay. I even asked the folks at the various motels why there was so much traffic, whether it was a special time of year, or whether there was something special in town. (I had to do this in a way as not to offend in case there was something &quot;obviously&quot; special about the place.) Curiously, the staff just said it was one of the few towns on I80, but nothing special. Gene, it sounds like you know more about their town than they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I overnighted in Rock Springs, actually.:)  It was nearly impossible to find a place to stay. I even asked the folks at the various motels why there was so much traffic, whether it was a special time of year, or whether there was something special in town. (I had to do this in a way as not to offend in case there was something &#8220;obviously&#8221; special about the place.) Curiously, the staff just said it was one of the few towns on <span class="caps">I80</span>, but nothing special. Gene, it sounds like you know more about their town than they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Welty</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172133</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Welty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Sep 2006 00:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172133</guid>
		<description>That would have been one of the later rail lines, then. The route of the original Union Pacific was very much focused on the most tolerable gradient to the Wasatch Mountains, then going around the north side of the Great Salt Lake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That would have been one of the later rail lines, then. The route of the original Union Pacific was very much focused on the most tolerable gradient to the Wasatch Mountains, then going around the north side of the Great Salt Lake.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-2/#comment-172128</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172128</guid>
		<description>Everyone, please let me know if I am boring this weblog to tears.

Mr. Welty,

The reason I spoke about the small bit of Wyoming I am familiar with, and one of the reasons it may be an exception, is that the railroad apparently deliberately built its line following the lines of coal.  Hence those towns in SE Wyoming like Rock Springs had a raison d&#039;etre after they built the railroad.

If anyone is traveling I80 across Wyoming, I recomment Rock Springs as a stop.  Apparently they won a law suit against the coal companies (or the railroads?) a number of years back for completely undermining the town and used the money for an attractive sports complex (only seen, not used) and conversion of the old courthouse into one of the most attractive museums of American life 1880-1940 I have ever visited.

Some may recall that in Dick Cheney&#039;s pre-9/11 New Yorker interview he stated that after he dropped out of Yale the way he was able to get back on his feet was by taking advantage of the good-paying union jobs then available in Rock Springs -- not to mention the free tuition at the state university.  Talk about pulling up ladders!

Someone said that I80 in Wyoming avoided the mountains so less scenery -- perhaps true, but watching the Uintas off to the south for a hundred miles or so is a fond memory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Everyone, please let me know if I am boring this weblog to tears.</p>

	<p>Mr. Welty,</p>

	<p>The reason I spoke about the small bit of Wyoming I am familiar with, and one of the reasons it may be an exception, is that the railroad apparently deliberately built its line following the lines of coal.  Hence those towns in <span class="caps">SE </span>Wyoming like Rock Springs had a raison d&#8217;etre after they built the railroad.</p>

	<p>If anyone is traveling <span class="caps">I80</span> across Wyoming, I recomment Rock Springs as a stop.  Apparently they won a law suit against the coal companies (or the railroads?) a number of years back for completely undermining the town and used the money for an attractive sports complex (only seen, not used) and conversion of the old courthouse into one of the most attractive museums of American life 1880-1940 I have ever visited.</p>

	<p>Some may recall that in Dick Cheney&#8217;s pre-9/11 New Yorker interview he stated that after he dropped out of Yale the way he was able to get back on his feet was by taking advantage of the good-paying union jobs then available in Rock Springs&#8212;not to mention the free tuition at the state university.  Talk about pulling up ladders!</p>

	<p>Someone said that <span class="caps">I80</span> in Wyoming avoided the mountains so less scenery&#8212;perhaps true, but watching the Uintas off to the south for a hundred miles or so is a fond memory.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Welty</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172119</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Welty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172119</guid>
		<description>Gene O&#039;Grady: certainly a few are still there, but some are entirely forgotten, or shrank to nothing and then were perhaps built back up later on a somewhat different basis.
The original reason for them was for temporary storage of supplies and workers, and as construction moved on, there wasn&#039;t much reason left for many of them except perhaps as watering stations for the steam locomotives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gene O&#8217;Grady: certainly a few are still there, but some are entirely forgotten, or shrank to nothing and then were perhaps built back up later on a somewhat different basis.<br />
The original reason for them was for temporary storage of supplies and workers, and as construction moved on, there wasn&#8217;t much reason left for many of them except perhaps as watering stations for the steam locomotives.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172114</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 20:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172114</guid>
		<description>As a Southern Californian, I find myself referring to other people&#039;s freeways with the definite article. For example, I grew up near &quot;the 95&quot;, which is wrong. But what about &quot;the 101&quot; which escapes definite article-dom the further you get from Southern California? Clearly, it is &quot;the 101&quot; in Hollywood and &quot;101&quot; in San Francisco, even in San Mateo. But what about in Santa Barbara? SLO? Should I say, &quot;On my way up north, I only took the 101 to the 170 to the 5, but on my way back down I took 101 all the way?&quot;

The named freeways thing really is perverse. First, only traffic reporters and people over fifty use the names. Second, the names and numbers diverge wildly. The 110 is the Harbor Freeway south of downtown and the Pasadena Freeway north of downtown. The &quot;Hollywood Freeway&quot; is the 101 until it switches to the 170, and the &quot;Ventura Freeway&quot; is the 134 until it becomes the 101 at the same time that the 101 ceases to be the &quot;Hollywood Freeway.&quot; I think it&#039;s because the 170, which is a relatively short stretch of freeway even if you factor in the part of Highland Avenue that is considered part of it and was until recently ruled by CalTrans instead of LADOT, would feel small and insignificant if you took &quot;Hollywood&quot; away from its existence. I don&#039;t remember: does I-95 have these kind of issues?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a Southern Californian, I find myself referring to other people&#8217;s freeways with the definite article. For example, I grew up near &#8220;the 95&#8221;, which is wrong. But what about &#8220;the 101&#8221; which escapes definite article-dom the further you get from Southern California? Clearly, it is &#8220;the 101&#8221; in Hollywood and &#8220;101&#8221; in San Francisco, even in San Mateo. But what about in Santa Barbara? <span class="caps">SLO</span>? Should I say, &#8220;On my way up north, I only took the 101 to the 170 to the 5, but on my way back down I took 101 all the way?&#8221;</p>

	<p>The named freeways thing really is perverse. First, only traffic reporters and people over fifty use the names. Second, the names and numbers diverge wildly. The 110 is the Harbor Freeway south of downtown and the Pasadena Freeway north of downtown. The &#8220;Hollywood Freeway&#8221; is the 101 until it switches to the 170, and the &#8220;Ventura Freeway&#8221; is the 134 until it becomes the 101 at the same time that the 101 ceases to be the &#8220;Hollywood Freeway.&#8221; I think it&#8217;s because the 170, which is a relatively short stretch of freeway even if you factor in the part of Highland Avenue that is considered part of it and was until recently ruled by CalTrans instead of <span class="caps">LADOT</span>, would feel small and insignificant if you took &#8220;Hollywood&#8221; away from its existence. I don&#8217;t remember: does I-95 have these kind of issues?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172101</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 19:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172101</guid>
		<description>In response to Richard Welty, while his point may be true for some areas, my (limited) impression of Wyoming was that the railroad towns (Rock Springs, Green River, etc.) are still there, the towns are almost or fully non-existent in the West are the resource extraction towns -- or some farm communities where they wore out the soil and left quickely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In response to Richard Welty, while his point may be true for some areas, my (limited) impression of Wyoming was that the railroad towns (Rock Springs, Green River, etc.) are still there, the towns are almost or fully non-existent in the West are the resource extraction towns&#8212;or some farm communities where they wore out the soil and left quickely.</p>
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		<title>By: glenn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172061</link>
		<dc:creator>glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 15:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172061</guid>
		<description>Hey, if Ma and Pa Buford of Wyoming say they are a town, they are a town, dammit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey, if Ma and Pa Buford of Wyoming say they are a town, they are a town, dammit!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Welty</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172050</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Welty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172050</guid>
		<description>A lot of towns were built and then &quot;retired&quot; as the railroads were built. The towns existed as temporary railheads, but ceased to have any real purpose as the tracks pushed onwards (westwards in the case of Wyoming.) There are many references to this in David Haward Bain&#039;s rather excellent &lt;b&gt;Empire Express&lt;/b&gt; on the construction of the first transcontinental railroad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A lot of towns were built and then &#8220;retired&#8221; as the railroads were built. The towns existed as temporary railheads, but ceased to have any real purpose as the tracks pushed onwards (westwards in the case of Wyoming.) There are many references to this in David Haward Bain&#8217;s rather excellent <b>Empire Express</b> on the construction of the first transcontinental railroad.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary V.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172045</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172045</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;On the right coast I think they refer to the 95&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;No, it’s just “95,” at least in my neck of the woods. &lt;/i&gt;

Or, in my neck of the woods, &quot;128.&quot; But I think that usage may be on the way out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>On the right coast I think they refer to the 95</i></p>

	<p><i>No, it&#8217;s just &#8220;95,&#8221; at least in my neck of the woods. </i></p>

	<p>Or, in my neck of the woods, &#8220;128.&#8221; But I think that usage may be on the way out.</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172041</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172041</guid>
		<description>That is just a few miles from where I attended the University of Wyoming.

You probably noticed that I-80 travels nowhere near the mountains in Wyoming.  Easier on the car, much less pleasant on the eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That is just a few miles from where I attended the University of Wyoming.</p>

	<p>You probably noticed that I-80 travels nowhere near the mountains in Wyoming.  Easier on the car, much less pleasant on the eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin_r</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172019</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin_r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172019</guid>
		<description>&quot;I had no idea I was that high up had it not been pointed out on this sign as the roads on the way weren’t particular steep.&quot;

That&#039;s why the railroad, then I-80 after it go through Wyoming rather than Colorado.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I had no idea I was that high up had it not been pointed out on this sign as the roads on the way weren&#8217;t particular steep.&#8221;</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s why the railroad, then I-80 after it go through Wyoming rather than Colorado.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/comment-page-1/#comment-172007</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/09/13/what-makes-a-town-a-town/#comment-172007</guid>
		<description>Apologies if I&#039;m beating a dead horse.

I have heard &quot;The Bayshore&quot; over the years, but mostly from my mother&#039;s (86 years old) generation.  I&#039;m old enough to remember when it was the &quot;Bloody Bayshore,&quot; and once worked on &quot;The Old Bayshore,&quot; which is worth checking out.  If you imagine that kind of road as the main route between San Francisco and San Jose ca. 1958 you&#039;ll know why it was bloody.

I have also regularly heard &quot;The El Camino,&quot; so go figure -- I wonder if a German would travel auf dem the El Camino?&quot;

In point of fact, while modern 101 parallels the old Spanish royal highway, in the SF peninsula El Camino is actually highway 82.  And when it was newly open (and empty enough that I was once in a car going 107 miles per hour at four o&#039;clock on a weekday afternoon)280 was frequently called &quot;The Junipero Serra.&quot;  Further on, and by no means a highway by current standards, is California Highway 35, still commonly called Skyline.  Many hears ago it was the way one traveled from San Francisco to Santa Cruz; when the San Francisco Chronicle once interviewed Yehudi Menuhin about his youth in San Francisco he reminisced about a two day trip down to the family cabin in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

And Highway is &quot;The Coast Highway,&quot; so in point of fact you have five named routes heading south of San Francisco, The Coast Highway, Skyline, Junipero Serra, El Camino, and Bayshore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Apologies if I&#8217;m beating a dead horse.</p>

	<p>I have heard &#8220;The Bayshore&#8221; over the years, but mostly from my mother&#8217;s (86 years old) generation.  I&#8217;m old enough to remember when it was the &#8220;Bloody Bayshore,&#8221; and once worked on &#8220;The Old Bayshore,&#8221; which is worth checking out.  If you imagine that kind of road as the main route between San Francisco and San Jose ca. 1958 you&#8217;ll know why it was bloody.</p>

	<p>I have also regularly heard &#8220;The El Camino,&#8221; so go figure&#8212;I wonder if a German would travel auf dem the El Camino?&#8221;</p>

	<p>In point of fact, while modern 101 parallels the old Spanish royal highway, in the SF peninsula El Camino is actually highway 82.  And when it was newly open (and empty enough that I was once in a car going 107 miles per hour at four o&#8217;clock on a weekday afternoon)280 was frequently called &#8220;The Junipero Serra.&#8221;  Further on, and by no means a highway by current standards, is California Highway 35, still commonly called Skyline.  Many hears ago it was the way one traveled from San Francisco to Santa Cruz; when the San Francisco Chronicle once interviewed Yehudi Menuhin about his youth in San Francisco he reminisced about a two day trip down to the family cabin in the Santa Cruz Mountains.</p>

	<p>And Highway is &#8220;The Coast Highway,&#8221; so in point of fact you have five named routes heading south of San Francisco, The Coast Highway, Skyline, Junipero Serra, El Camino, and Bayshore.</p>
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