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	<title>Comments on: Walmart&#8217;s Christmas Site</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: neil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174537</link>
		<dc:creator>neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174537</guid>
		<description>Thank you, radek, for that excellent example of self-righteous smugness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thank you, radek, for that excellent example of self-righteous smugness.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174501</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174501</guid>
		<description>Proof, dammit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Proof, dammit.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174500</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174500</guid>
		<description>&quot;The definitive proof that Americans cannot hear the difference between Australian and Estuary English?&quot;

Actually the definitive prove is the third season of Arrested Development, which features a &quot;Wee Britain&quot; in Orange County populated almost entirely by Australians (and the South African Charlize Theron).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The definitive proof that Americans cannot hear the difference between Australian and Estuary English?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Actually the definitive prove is the third season of Arrested Development, which features a &#8220;Wee Britain&#8221; in Orange County populated almost entirely by Australians (and the South African Charlize Theron).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Wood</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174304</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174304</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What good could come of this for the wider world?&lt;/i&gt;

Further evidence that some people get worked up over the strangest things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>What good could come of this for the wider world?</i></p>

	<p>Further evidence that some people get worked up over the strangest things?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174303</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174303</guid>
		<description>Thanks radek, I appreciate the moderated tone. As to the name, I won&#039;t say everyone does it but, well, surprisingly many do (and it bemuses, rather than offends me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks radek, I appreciate the moderated tone. As to the name, I won&#8217;t say everyone does it but, well, surprisingly many do (and it bemuses, rather than offends me).</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174301</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 21:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174301</guid>
		<description>Yeah, alright, I&#039;ve gone off into troll territory. But hey, one over reaction deserves another. 
Apologies on the name - that part was not intentional tomfoolery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, alright, I&#8217;ve gone off into troll territory. But hey, one over reaction deserves another.<br />
Apologies on the name &#8211; that part was not intentional tomfoolery.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: J Edgar</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174291</link>
		<dc:creator>J Edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174291</guid>
		<description>What the?
I opened the list of rejected toys and then closed it with a Done and the elves said
&quot;I&#039;m going to kick back in my Escalade&quot;
&quot;Can I come for a ride?&quot;
The reply was either 
&quot;Playa (player?), please&quot; or &quot;Later, please&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What the?<br />
I opened the list of rejected toys and then closed it with a Done and the elves said<br />
&#8220;I&#8217;m going to kick back in my Escalade&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Can I come for a ride?&#8221;<br />
The reply was either<br />
&#8220;Playa (player?), please&#8221; or &#8220;Later, please&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174266</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 13:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174266</guid>
		<description>well radek, now we&#039;ve established that you do, indeed, apparently a priori, exempt commercial activity from the very possibility that it might harm children, but are not a silly child liberationist. Just someone who doesn&#039;t recognise mildly whimsical humour, attempts to interpret your opponents in argument as uncharitably as possible, and can&#039;t be bothered to figure out their names. Harry, not Henry. (Not offended by the way, everyone does it, even some of our gang).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>well radek, now we&#8217;ve established that you do, indeed, apparently a priori, exempt commercial activity from the very possibility that it might harm children, but are not a silly child liberationist. Just someone who doesn&#8217;t recognise mildly whimsical humour, attempts to interpret your opponents in argument as uncharitably as possible, and can&#8217;t be bothered to figure out their names. Harry, not Henry. (Not offended by the way, everyone does it, even some of our gang).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174262</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 05:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174262</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Children do need protecting from certain sorts of social manipulation which they don’t yet understand.&lt;/i&gt;


&lt;i&gt;I have this thing about not letting them stick their fingers in outlets, too &lt;/i&gt;

Yeah you&#039;re right. Ozzy made them do it. I mean purchasing a toy from WalMart is pretty much equivalent to self induced electrocution. And listenin&#039; to Heavy Metal makes them worship Satan and sacrifice goats.

And once Ozzy and the Evil Corporations hold that gun to your head it don&#039;t matter whether you&#039;re Chinases or Polynesian. The chidlren! The children! Agghhhhhh nooooooo! Not the children!!!! They&#039;re being advertised to!

WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Children do need protecting from certain sorts of social manipulation which they don&#8217;t yet understand.</i></p>


	<p><i>I have this thing about not letting them stick their fingers in outlets, too </i></p>

	<p>Yeah you&#8217;re right. Ozzy made them do it. I mean purchasing a toy from WalMart is pretty much equivalent to self induced electrocution. And listenin&#8217; to Heavy Metal makes them worship Satan and sacrifice goats.</p>

	<p>And once Ozzy and the Evil Corporations hold that gun to your head it don&#8217;t matter whether you&#8217;re Chinases or Polynesian. The chidlren! The children! Agghhhhhh nooooooo! Not the children<img src="!" alt="" border="0" />! They&#8217;re being advertised to!</p>

	<p><span class="caps">WTF</span>?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174257</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 03:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174257</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults?&lt;/i&gt;

Oh no! I failed to realize how serious this was! Henry, thank you for the alert! The fact that Wal-Mart might actually try to sell its toys means that any day now we&#039;ll have 4 yr olds voting for Bush and spiritual progressives everywhere will be forced into a tactical retreat against those of us who think that, well, its ultimately the parents who happen to have the money which can purchase the toys. And once this happens then KIDS WILL DRIVE!!!!!!! You&#039;re freakin&#039; right, this is some sillpery slope that we don&#039;t evem want to consider. And once this happens (again, again) kids drivin&#039; and all, then they&#039;ll be tried as adults becuase they bought some silly toy from a WalMart commercial.
Next thing we know, all our children (oh no, think of the children!!!!) we&#039;ll be on death row. This is our system is. Please reject it. You don&#039;t want your kids to wind up on death row do you? So WalMart. Bad. Yes, Bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults?</i></p>

	<p>Oh no! I failed to realize how serious this was! Henry, thank you for the alert! The fact that Wal-Mart might actually try to sell its toys means that any day now we&#8217;ll have 4 yr olds voting for Bush and spiritual progressives everywhere will be forced into a tactical retreat against those of us who think that, well, its ultimately the parents who happen to have the money which can purchase the toys. And once this happens then <span class="caps">KIDS WILL DRIVE</span><img src="!" alt="" border="0" /><img src="!" alt="" border="0" />! You&#8217;re freakin&#8217; right, this is some sillpery slope that we don&#8217;t evem want to consider. And once this happens (again, again) kids drivin&#8217; and all, then they&#8217;ll be tried as adults becuase they bought some silly toy from a WalMart commercial.<br />
Next thing we know, all our children (oh no, think of the children<img src="!" alt="" border="0" />!) we&#8217;ll be on death row. This is our system is. Please reject it. You don&#8217;t want your kids to wind up on death row do you? So WalMart. Bad. Yes, Bad.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174256</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Oct 2006 02:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174256</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults?</i><i></i></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174218</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 14:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174218</guid>
		<description>Harry, all this raises an interesting question (or perhaps this has been your point all along): are such approaches on the Web worse than on TV?  I guess part of the issue may be that on TV you may have certain messages come at you, but you aren&#039;t interacting with those messages so a Web site like this can draw users in more and hold their attention longer leading to who-knows-what implications for relating to parents and merchandise, etc.  The other side of that, however, is that visiting Web sites seems to have a more pro-active component than seeing TV ads.  I guess this is an empirical question and I know of no studies on this, but one may assume it would take more energy to find the remote and change the channel away from an ad than to decide not to visit (or leave) a Web site. 

Given these two differences (interactive feature that draws users in and pro-active feature that requires more action on the part of users) it&#039;s hard to say how a site of this sort would compare to similar messages conveyed on TV or other media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Harry, all this raises an interesting question (or perhaps this has been your point all along): are such approaches on the Web worse than on TV?  I guess part of the issue may be that on TV you may have certain messages come at you, but you aren&#8217;t interacting with those messages so a Web site like this can draw users in more and hold their attention longer leading to who-knows-what implications for relating to parents and merchandise, etc.  The other side of that, however, is that visiting Web sites seems to have a more pro-active component than seeing TV ads.  I guess this is an empirical question and I know of no studies on this, but one may assume it would take more energy to find the remote and change the channel away from an ad than to decide not to visit (or leave) a Web site.</p>

	<p>Given these two differences (interactive feature that draws users in and pro-active feature that requires more action on the part of users) it&#8217;s hard to say how a site of this sort would compare to similar messages conveyed on TV or other media.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174207</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 12:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174207</guid>
		<description>I have this thing about not letting them stick their fingers in outlets, too. 

Eszter -- I don&#039;t think I can win an argument about this. I heard about the site, then looked at it, and thought that it was hilarious. And unbelievable not because it is in itself especially disgusting (there&#039;s plenty more disgusting) but because of the accent and the flagrancy of what it is doing. I know tv ads etc are all pretty flagrant too, but this one is easy to link to, entertainingly funny, and wears on its sleeve the motives of the creators.

Do the child liberationists think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults? Why bother having parents at all, if they are so robust that nothing can possibly harm them? Or is it only large corporations which have no interest at all in their wellbeing and only want to make money offthem and their parents who can&#039;t harm them?

clyde -- yes, the truth is that my 9 year old has all the understanding and self-control necessary to avoid this site, or to take it for what it is.  My 5 1/2 year old doesn&#039;t. She&#039;s not especially gullible and immature; she&#039;s just 5 1/2. I&#039;d like to think that everyone understands the developmental limitations of 5 1/2 year olds well enough to keep them off the web altogether, and to limit their TV watching to non-commercial TV or TV watched with adults. We have some evidence from comments here that that&#039;s not true -- and, in fact, I didn&#039;t ned that evidence, because I have observed enough other 5 1/2 year olds being given free reign over how much and what TV/internet they consume to know what is going on. The folks at Walmart know that too and the site is designed to exploit that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have this thing about not letting them stick their fingers in outlets, too.</p>

	<p>Eszter&#8212;I don&#8217;t think I can win an argument about this. I heard about the site, then looked at it, and thought that it was hilarious. And unbelievable not because it is in itself especially disgusting (there&#8217;s plenty more disgusting) but because of the accent and the flagrancy of what it is doing. I know tv ads etc are all pretty flagrant too, but this one is easy to link to, entertainingly funny, and wears on its sleeve the motives of the creators.</p>

	<p>Do the child liberationists think that 7 year olds should be allowed to vote? To drive? To be tried as adults? Why bother having parents at all, if they are so robust that nothing can possibly harm them? Or is it only large corporations which have no interest at all in their wellbeing and only want to make money offthem and their parents who can&#8217;t harm them?</p>

	<p>clyde&#8212;yes, the truth is that my 9 year old has all the understanding and self-control necessary to avoid this site, or to take it for what it is.  My 5 1/2 year old doesn&#8217;t. She&#8217;s not especially gullible and immature; she&#8217;s just 5 1/2. I&#8217;d like to think that everyone understands the developmental limitations of 5 1/2 year olds well enough to keep them off the web altogether, and to limit their TV watching to non-commercial TV or TV watched with adults. We have some evidence from comments here that that&#8217;s not true&#8212;and, in fact, I didn&#8217;t ned that evidence, because I have observed enough other 5 1/2 year olds being given free reign over how much and what TV/internet they consume to know what is going on. The folks at Walmart know that too and the site is designed to exploit that.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew Brown</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174198</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 07:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174198</guid>
		<description>WADR: balls. Children do need protecting from certain sorts of social manipulation which they don&#039;t yet understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">WADR</span>: balls. Children do need protecting from certain sorts of social manipulation which they don&#8217;t yet understand.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/comment-page-1/#comment-174197</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Oct 2006 06:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/06/walmarts-christmas-site/#comment-174197</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;What good can come from this for the wider world?&lt;/i&gt;

Entertainment, information, want satisfaction.

It seems to me that the only people who object to this are those who don&#039;t realize how much sillier they are than the kids they think they&#039;re protecting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>What good can come from this for the wider world?</i></p>

	<p>Entertainment, information, want satisfaction.</p>

	<p>It seems to me that the only people who object to this are those who don&#8217;t realize how much sillier they are than the kids they think they&#8217;re protecting.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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