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	<title>Comments on: A primer to gender</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: James Wimberley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-2/#comment-174777</link>
		<dc:creator>James Wimberley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174777</guid>
		<description>reacting to chuk&#039;s ABC in 18:
&quot;Not all of female behavior (that is behavior that we see as typical of women and not men) can be accounted for by variation in their biological make up.
Not all of male behavior (that is behavior that we see as typical of men and not women) can be accounted for by variation in their biological make up. [In fact, some women even exhibit typically masculine behavior.] [In fact, some men even exhibit typically feminine behavior.] These unusual patterns must come into play by some other variable. Maybe some of it is learned via socialization, or enculturation, or upbringing or whatever.&quot;

What &quot;we see as typical&quot; is not the main fact to be explained. There are certainly many objective differences in what human males and females do, but these are strongly overlapping probability distributions in modern societies, except for physiological reproduction. It&#039;s interesting and important to investigate these distributions, trends in them, and possible social and biological explanations.

Second, you have expectations about these differences, which are one of the likely causal factors of the objective differences in behaviour. They are also highly variable. It&#039;s also interesting, though less important as it&#039;s only part of the story, to investigate the distributions of these expectations, trends in them and possible causes.
If that&#039;s what gender theory is about, I&#039;m all for it. Show us the regressions, please. If it assumes that these expectations are uniform and binary, it&#039;s a load of rent-seeking piffle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>reacting to chuk&#8217;s <span class="caps">ABC</span> in 18:<br />
&#8220;Not all of female behavior (that is behavior that we see as typical of women and not men) can be accounted for by variation in their biological make up.<br />
Not all of male behavior (that is behavior that we see as typical of men and not women) can be accounted for by variation in their biological make up. [In fact, some women even exhibit typically masculine behavior.] [In fact, some men even exhibit typically feminine behavior.] These unusual patterns must come into play by some other variable. Maybe some of it is learned via socialization, or enculturation, or upbringing or whatever.&#8221;</p>

	<p>What &#8220;we see as typical&#8221; is not the main fact to be explained. There are certainly many objective differences in what human males and females do, but these are strongly overlapping probability distributions in modern societies, except for physiological reproduction. It&#8217;s interesting and important to investigate these distributions, trends in them, and possible social and biological explanations.</p>

	<p>Second, you have expectations about these differences, which are one of the likely causal factors of the objective differences in behaviour. They are also highly variable. It&#8217;s also interesting, though less important as it&#8217;s only part of the story, to investigate the distributions of these expectations, trends in them and possible causes.<br />
If that&#8217;s what gender theory is about, I&#8217;m all for it. Show us the regressions, please. If it assumes that these expectations are uniform and binary, it&#8217;s a load of rent-seeking piffle.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-2/#comment-174755</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174755</guid>
		<description>Try Eugene Borgida, et al., &quot;on the Use of Gender Stereotyping Research in Sex Discrimination Litigation,&quot; 2 Jornal of Law and Policy 613 (2005.) It&#039;s on the web under http://www.brooklaw.edu/centers/scienceforjudges/papers.php

I agree with the above comments that it is hard to identify a single article for all &quot;skeptics.&quot;  What I like about this article, though, is:(a) no post-modernist jargon; (b) empirical analysis; and (c)focus on the ways in which gender infects perception of qualifications. 

For something even shorter, there is a newspaper article that covers some of the same ground: Virgina Valian, &quot;Raise your hand if you&#039;re a woman in science. . .&quot; Washington Post Jan. 30, 2005, p. B1. You can find it at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46421-2005Jan29
(Valian&#039;s book,  &quot;Why so slow?&quot; on women in science is next on my own list of things to read on this topic (I haven&#039;t yet).)  

anne goldstein</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Try Eugene Borgida, et al., &#8220;on the Use of Gender Stereotyping Research in Sex Discrimination Litigation,&#8221; 2 Jornal of Law and Policy 613 (2005.) It&#8217;s on the web under <a href="http://www.brooklaw.edu/centers/scienceforjudges/papers.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.brooklaw.edu/centers/scienceforjudges/papers.php</a></p>

	<p>I agree with the above comments that it is hard to identify a single article for all &#8220;skeptics.&#8221;  What I like about this article, though, is:(a) no post-modernist jargon; (b) empirical analysis; and&#169;focus on the ways in which gender infects perception of qualifications.</p>

	<p>For something even shorter, there is a newspaper article that covers some of the same ground: Virgina Valian, &#8220;Raise your hand if you&#8217;re a woman in science. . .&#8221; Washington Post Jan. 30, 2005, p. B1. You can find it at<br />
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46421-2005Jan29" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A46421-2005Jan29</a><br />
(Valian&#8217;s book,  &#8220;Why so slow?&#8221; on women in science is next on my own list of things to read on this topic (I haven&#8217;t yet).)</p>

	<p>anne goldstein</p>
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		<title>By: Ingrid Robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174670</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingrid Robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 15:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174670</guid>
		<description>Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions -- there were many good ones, and I agree with the views that such a &#039;primer&#039; should be different depending on the person who&#039;s asking. I had entirely forgotten about Doris Weichselbaumer&#039;s research which is fascinating and very powerful indeed. And I will check out COlin Danby&#039;s other suggestiosn, which are looking very interesting. 

Is it feasible to introduce sceptics to gender with just a single article? I don&#039;t know whether it will work for the concept of gender, which is a complex phenomenon, but I do know that one article can do miracles in educating people who deny the existnce of certain phenomena. In the past I&#039;ve been able to convince some economists about the existence of gender labour market discrimination by having them read a very short article -- the article on discrimination against female post-doc applicants which was published around 1997 by Wenneras and Wold in Nature. But while their study clearly demonstrates discrimination against women (without any other explanations possible thanks to the exceptional quality of the data, as in the earlier mentioned Goldin-Rouse paper), some responded that this might be an outlier. In that respect it is a open question indeed how much you can gain with one article. Moreover, this was an article about gender discrimination, not about what gender precisely constitutes; perhaps that is more difficult in one article, and it is much less a case of demonstrating whether something exists (yes or no), but rather about making sense of what gender is, and how it works.

For sociologists, perhaps the first chapter of Michael Kimmel&#039;s book _The gendered society_ may induce them to read the whole book (OUP 2000).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions&#8212;there were many good ones, and I agree with the views that such a &#8216;primer&#8217; should be different depending on the person who&#8217;s asking. I had entirely forgotten about Doris Weichselbaumer&#8217;s research which is fascinating and very powerful indeed. And I will check out COlin Danby&#8217;s other suggestiosn, which are looking very interesting.</p>

	<p>Is it feasible to introduce sceptics to gender with just a single article? I don&#8217;t know whether it will work for the concept of gender, which is a complex phenomenon, but I do know that one article can do miracles in educating people who deny the existnce of certain phenomena. In the past I&#8217;ve been able to convince some economists about the existence of gender labour market discrimination by having them read a very short article&#8212;the article on discrimination against female post-doc applicants which was published around 1997 by Wenneras and Wold in Nature. But while their study clearly demonstrates discrimination against women (without any other explanations possible thanks to the exceptional quality of the data, as in the earlier mentioned Goldin-Rouse paper), some responded that this might be an outlier. In that respect it is a open question indeed how much you can gain with one article. Moreover, this was an article about gender discrimination, not about what gender precisely constitutes; perhaps that is more difficult in one article, and it is much less a case of demonstrating whether something exists (yes or no), but rather about making sense of what gender is, and how it works.</p>

	<p>For sociologists, perhaps the first chapter of Michael Kimmel&#8217;s book <em>The gendered society</em> may induce them to read the whole book (OUP 2000).</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2006-10-11 &#171; Amy G. Dala</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174658</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2006-10-11 &#171; Amy G. Dala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174658</guid>
		<description>[...] Crooked Timber » » A primer to gender (tags: gender reference) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; A primer to gender (tags: gender reference) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174518</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174518</guid>
		<description>Very simple- which I guess is why the author had to wrap it up in so much verbiage. Every dimwit professor is supposed to be an original thinker these days. Simply being a teacher doesn&#039;t cut it.

&quot;...the modalities of feminine bodily comportment, motility, and spatiality exhibit this same tension between transcendence and immanence, between subjectivity and being a mere object.”

...women stand, sit and walk around in ways that demonstrate an indecisiveness about whether they want primarily to see, as a subject, or be seen, as an object.  Do pretty girls desire directly or do they &quot;want to be desired.&quot;  Does a girl walk up and say &quot;hello&quot; in a suggestive manner, or is she more likely to express interest by turning away-sideways and posing- while fiddling with her hair?
Barroom stuff. Simple; in a package designed by a Ph.D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Very simple- which I guess is why the author had to wrap it up in so much verbiage. Every dimwit professor is supposed to be an original thinker these days. Simply being a teacher doesn&#8217;t cut it.</p>

	<p>&#8220;&#8230;the modalities of feminine bodily comportment, motility, and spatiality exhibit this same tension between transcendence and immanence, between subjectivity and being a mere object.&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8230;women stand, sit and walk around in ways that demonstrate an indecisiveness about whether they want primarily to see, as a subject, or be seen, as an object.  Do pretty girls desire directly or do they &#8220;want to be desired.&#8221;  Does a girl walk up and say &#8220;hello&#8221; in a suggestive manner, or is she more likely to express interest by turning away-sideways and posing- while fiddling with her hair?<br />
Barroom stuff. Simple; in a package designed by a Ph.D</p>
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		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174495</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174495</guid>
		<description>Bryan asks,

&lt;i&gt;Is anyone really skeptical of the proposition that in different times and places and among different groups there have existed different (in some cases very different) ideas and norms about men, women and their relationships?&lt;/i&gt;

I am, to some degree.  I think that there seems to be a &quot;deep structure&quot; of ideas/norms that is relatively constant in all successful societies (in other words, if you die out after 2 generations like the Shakers, your ideas/norms don&#039;t really count); how that deep structure works out depends on environment, but the structure (man as protector/woman as nurturer) seems to stay the same all the way back to the primates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bryan asks,</p>

	<p><i>Is anyone really skeptical of the proposition that in different times and places and among different groups there have existed different (in some cases very different) ideas and norms about men, women and their relationships?</i></p>

	<p>I am, to some degree.  I think that there seems to be a &#8220;deep structure&#8221; of ideas/norms that is relatively constant in all successful societies (in other words, if you die out after 2 generations like the Shakers, your ideas/norms don&#8217;t really count); how that deep structure works out depends on environment, but the structure (man as protector/woman as nurturer) seems to stay the same all the way back to the primates.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Clay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174487</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174487</guid>
		<description>“My suggestion is that the modalities of feminine bodily comportment, motility, and spatiality exhibit this same tension between transcendence and immanence, between subjectivity and being a mere object.”

OK, so what does this mean anyway?

The subject of the sentence is something like &quot;feminine ways and forms of occupying space/moving/expressing body language&quot;. Not too bad.

The rest of it makes me think that Aristotle excluded the middle for a good reason, and to wonder if there is any noun to which &quot;exhibits this same tension ...&quot; could not be applied.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;My suggestion is that the modalities of feminine bodily comportment, motility, and spatiality exhibit this same tension between transcendence and immanence, between subjectivity and being a mere object.&#8221;</p>

	<p>OK, so what does this mean anyway?</p>

	<p>The subject of the sentence is something like &#8220;feminine ways and forms of occupying space/moving/expressing body language&#8221;. Not too bad.</p>

	<p>The rest of it makes me think that Aristotle excluded the middle for a good reason, and to wonder if there is any noun to which &#8220;exhibits this same tension &#8230;&#8221; could not be applied.</p>
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		<title>By: djw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174468</link>
		<dc:creator>djw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 07:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174468</guid>
		<description>Use of a few unnecessary 10 cent words and a few clunky sentences doesn&#039;t make something indecipherable. I find undergraduates do pretty well with Young in general and Throwing Like Girl in particular. What she&#039;s saying goes well beyond political theory, even if how she says it doesn&#039;t. In her case, patience pays off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Use of a few unnecessary 10 cent words and a few clunky sentences doesn&#8217;t make something indecipherable. I find undergraduates do pretty well with Young in general and Throwing Like Girl in particular. What she&#8217;s saying goes well beyond political theory, even if how she says it doesn&#8217;t. In her case, patience pays off.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 06:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174464</guid>
		<description>Is anyone really skeptical of the proposition that in different times and places and among different groups there have existed different (in some cases very different) ideas and norms about men, women and their relationships? It is one thing to doubt that, and quite another to doubt that some &lt;i&gt;particular&lt;/i&gt; approach to explaining these differences and their origins is meaningful or cogent. I suspect the &#039;skeptic&#039; who believes everything is explained by innate, biological sexual differences is made of straw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is anyone really skeptical of the proposition that in different times and places and among different groups there have existed different (in some cases very different) ideas and norms about men, women and their relationships? It is one thing to doubt that, and quite another to doubt that some <i>particular</i> approach to explaining these differences and their origins is meaningful or cogent. I suspect the &#8216;skeptic&#8217; who believes everything is explained by innate, biological sexual differences is made of straw.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174451</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174451</guid>
		<description>David, #42: fair enough – I can’t disagree with your readings. The passage is hardly to be held up as a model of lucidity or precision, and I&#039;ve actually no great ax to grind in its favor. But it’s hardly total gobbledygook either. Her points overall are reasonably clear, albeit badly phrased, and go further than “nature vs. nurture”. What annoyed me was your rush to dismiss and disqualify it entirely: we’re all familiar by now with the gesture of declaring-something-unreadable-in-order-to-avoid-having-to-read-it, usually in the name of reactionary philistinism and/or dogmatic quantitative-fetishism (there must be a better way of putting that last one, but I can&#039;t think of it right now). Maybe I was wrong to read you as either, but I think you exaggerated a little, and a little quickly, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>David, #42: fair enough &#8211; I can&#8217;t disagree with your readings. The passage is hardly to be held up as a model of lucidity or precision, and I&#8217;ve actually no great ax to grind in its favor. But it&#8217;s hardly total gobbledygook either. Her points overall are reasonably clear, albeit badly phrased, and go further than &#8220;nature vs. nurture&#8221;. What annoyed me was your rush to dismiss and disqualify it entirely: we&#8217;re all familiar by now with the gesture of declaring-something-unreadable-in-order-to-avoid-having-to-read-it, usually in the name of reactionary philistinism and/or dogmatic quantitative-fetishism (there must be a better way of putting that last one, but I can&#8217;t think of it right now). Maybe I was wrong to read you as either, but I think you exaggerated a little, and a little quickly, too.</p>
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		<title>By: David Sucher</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174444</link>
		<dc:creator>David Sucher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174444</guid>
		<description>See, there&#039;s the problem, astrongmaybe.

I am not in the least bit a skeptic that some of our social roles may have little to do with our type of genitals. This whole question of nature vs nurture -- which I assume is the parent question -- is not new.

What I object to is BS which leaves me wondering what the person is trying to say and why they can&#039;t use simple words. The sentence is pompous and pretentious and doesn&#039;t help raise consciousness.

The term &quot;modalities&quot; adds nothing -- in fact it only obscures. The word &quot;spatiality&quot; is also particularly ill-choesen and meaningless. &quot;Comportment&quot; is especially funny in this context since it is such a girly word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>See, there&#8217;s the problem, astrongmaybe.</p>

	<p>I am not in the least bit a skeptic that some of our social roles may have little to do with our type of genitals. This whole question of nature vs nurture&#8212;which I assume is the parent question&#8212;is not new.</p>

	<p>What I object to is BS which leaves me wondering what the person is trying to say and why they can&#8217;t use simple words. The sentence is pompous and pretentious and doesn&#8217;t help raise consciousness.</p>

	<p>The term &#8220;modalities&#8221; adds nothing&#8212;in fact it only obscures. The word &#8220;spatiality&#8221; is also particularly ill-choesen and meaningless. &#8220;Comportment&#8221; is especially funny in this context since it is such a girly word.</p>
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		<title>By: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174416</link>
		<dc:creator>greensmile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174416</guid>
		<description>oh dear, thats a lot of reading.  Can some enlightened person just give me [pretend I&#039;m Dubya] a list telling me when to emphasize gender &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;and when to downplay it&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;?  For simpleton&#039;s like me its maddening that a mind informed by a well stocked feminist&#039;s bookshelf will be agile at BOTH in the right contexts.  Most like me can&#039;t even pass for PC at a cocktail party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oh dear, thats a lot of reading.  Can some enlightened person just give me [pretend I&#8217;m Dubya] a list telling me when to emphasize gender <i><b>and when to downplay it</b></i>?  For simpleton&#8217;s like me its maddening that a mind informed by a well stocked feminist&#8217;s bookshelf will be agile at <span class="caps">BOTH</span> in the right contexts.  Most like me can&#8217;t even pass for PC at a cocktail party.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyrebird</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174411</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyrebird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 20:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174411</guid>
		<description>Thank you for posing such a reasonable question.  

Here is an on-line resource I like:

&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://web2.airmail.net/ktrig246/out_of_cave/essay3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;K. Trigani&#039;s articles&lt;/a&gt; (several directly address the Mars/Venus stuff).  The &quot;Masculinity-Femininity&quot; article is very well-referenced, scholarly, and [yet] easy to understand.

And in print, these two references are both books, but (especially Zuk&#039;s) they are lucidly enough written, while giving pointers to other research, that they can serve as an approachable index:

Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can&#039;t Learn about Sex from Animals by Marlene Zuk

The Trouble with Nature: Sex in Science and Popular Culture by Roger N. Lancaster

re: &quot;gobbledygook&quot; vs. rigor or something-

Time is precious, and if a quick trip through one Zuk chapter will help a colleague from another discipline and/or another land to appropriately question bad applications of questionable sociobiology, why try the uphill battle of getting the marginally interested to read the marginally penetrable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thank you for posing such a reasonable question.</p>

	<p>Here is an on-line resource I like:</p>

	<p><a HREF="http://web2.airmail.net/ktrig246/out_of_cave/essay3.html" rel="nofollow">K. Trigani&#8217;s articles</a> (several directly address the Mars/Venus stuff).  The &#8220;Masculinity-Femininity&#8221; article is very well-referenced, scholarly, and [yet] easy to understand.</p>

	<p>And in print, these two references are both books, but (especially Zuk&#8217;s) they are lucidly enough written, while giving pointers to other research, that they can serve as an approachable index:</p>

	<p>Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can&#8217;t Learn about Sex from Animals by Marlene Zuk</p>

	<p>The Trouble with Nature: Sex in Science and Popular Culture by Roger N. Lancaster</p>

	<p>re: &#8220;gobbledygook&#8221; vs. rigor or something-</p>

	<p>Time is precious, and if a quick trip through one Zuk chapter will help a colleague from another discipline and/or another land to appropriately question bad applications of questionable sociobiology, why try the uphill battle of getting the marginally interested to read the marginally penetrable?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174390</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174390</guid>
		<description>I am confused about one point on this gender/sex difference issue.

It makes sense to me that gender roles are distinct from sex differences. But it still seems that most assignment of gender is very highly correlated with &quot;biological&quot; sex.

Are there cultural &quot;gender&quot; examples where there are say 17 different genders or where gender assignment is not highly correlated with biological sex?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am confused about one point on this gender/sex difference issue.</p>

	<p>It makes sense to me that gender roles are distinct from sex differences. But it still seems that most assignment of gender is very highly correlated with &#8220;biological&#8221; sex.</p>

	<p>Are there cultural &#8220;gender&#8221; examples where there are say 17 different genders or where gender assignment is not highly correlated with biological sex?</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/comment-page-1/#comment-174387</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/08/a-primer-to-gender/#comment-174387</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting list. Not directly relevant to the question, but relevant to the topic of research sex-based differences (which came up in the comments) is a series of recent posts on &lt;a&gt;Language Log&lt;/a&gt; by Mark Liberman on claims about language/neural differences between men and women. They should be easily findable from the front page and they&#039;ve been more than 10 over the last few months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is an interesting list. Not directly relevant to the question, but relevant to the topic of research sex-based differences (which came up in the comments) is a series of recent posts on <a>Language Log</a> by Mark Liberman on claims about language/neural differences between men and women. They should be easily findable from the front page and they&#8217;ve been more than 10 over the last few months.</p>
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