Comments on: Review: Joseph Jupille on Procedural Politics in the EU http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:49:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: trane http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-174935 trane Thu, 12 Oct 2006 18:15:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/#comment-174935 Interesting review, thank you. (On the notion of 'forum shopping': This is widely used also in the literature on Legal Pluralism. Originally, the term as it is known here, was coined by Keebet von Benda-Becakmann in a 1981 article called "Forum Shopping and Shopping Forums") Interesting review, thank you.

(On the notion of ‘forum shopping’: This is widely used also in the literature on Legal Pluralism. Originally, the term as it is known here, was coined by Keebet von Benda-Becakmann in a 1981 article called “Forum Shopping and Shopping Forums”)

]]> By: la deutsche vita http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-174762 la deutsche vita Wed, 11 Oct 2006 21:45:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/#comment-174762 You are of course right that game theory could model forum shopping by extending the game back one stage. But does it? I'm not up to date with game theory, but I get the impression that at best game theorists add this as some kind of ex-post explanation when their predictions are not supported by the empirical data. The internal change problem is of course tricky because it would turn simple models into very complex ones which are difficult to handle. But besides these methodological problems, I don't really understood why it should be so difficult to conceive of actors being bound by institutional rules and at the same time successfully changing them. You are of course right that game theory could model forum shopping by extending the game back one stage. But does it? I’m not up to date with game theory, but I get the impression that at best game theorists add this as some kind of ex-post explanation when their predictions are not supported by the empirical data. The internal change problem is of course tricky because it would turn simple models into very complex ones which are difficult to handle. But besides these methodological problems, I don’t really understood why it should be so difficult to conceive of actors being bound by institutional rules and at the same time successfully changing them.

]]> By: Henry http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-174730 Henry Wed, 11 Oct 2006 19:03:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/#comment-174730 deutsche vita - exactly right on forum shopping and JJ's current work tries to extend these arguments to international forum shopping (together with Duncan Snidal). But I'm not seeing how these choices, as you describe them, are necessarily impossible to model with game theory - if the institutions are 'chosen' beforehand, surely this can be modelled by extending the game back one stage? I think that the internal change problem is a much more tricky one ... deutsche vita – exactly right on forum shopping and JJ’s current work tries to extend these arguments to international forum shopping (together with Duncan Snidal). But I’m not seeing how these choices, as you describe them, are necessarily impossible to model with game theory – if the institutions are ‘chosen’ beforehand, surely this can be modelled by extending the game back one stage? I think that the internal change problem is a much more tricky one …

]]> By: la deutsche vita http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-174699 la deutsche vita Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:47:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/#comment-174699 Reading your excellent review reminds me of the idea of "venue-shopping". Just as companies tend to choose a country with a favourable legal system for filing a law suit, EU actors try to choose those legislative procedures that best fit their interests. Both theories seem to be in line with rational choice approaches. What distinguishes them from game theory is not so much the idea that the institutional framework can be changed in the course of a "game", but rather that prior to the game, actors in some political systems have a choice between different institutional frameworks. This may not challenge game theory, but it certainly shows that game theory does not cover the whole political process and may even miss the most important part of it. Reading your excellent review reminds me of the idea of “venue-shopping”. Just as companies tend to choose a country with a favourable legal system for filing a law suit, EU actors try to choose those legislative procedures that best fit their interests. Both theories seem to be in line with rational choice approaches. What distinguishes them from game theory is not so much the idea that the institutional framework can be changed in the course of a “game”, but rather that prior to the game, actors in some political systems have a choice between different institutional frameworks. This may not challenge game theory, but it certainly shows that game theory does not cover the whole political process and may even miss the most important part of it.

]]> By: David Weman http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/comment-page-1/#comment-174690 David Weman Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:21:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/11/review-joseph-jupille-on-procedural-politics-in-the-eu/#comment-174690 I think I need to buy this book. I think I need to buy this book.

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