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	<title>Comments on: Basic economics bleg</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Lyle Burkhead</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-176474</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyle Burkhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 22:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-176474</guid>
		<description>Going back to the original question, it is not clear why you would give your relative a textbook. Surely there is a required textbook for Economics 101, and he isn&#039;t going to want to read another one.

What is needed is something to supplement the required textbook. Many of the suggestions here are worth checking out, so why not just point him to this blog and let him decide what would be most useful to him?

Recently I had occasion to reread Keynes&#039;s &quot;Essays in Persuasion.&quot; At the time (i.e. before I read this blog) it occurred to me that Part 2 of that book would be an ideal introduction to macroeconomics. It presents the basic ideas of the General Theory in a nontechnical way.

Students should be told the basic fact that how one organizes an economy makes a difference in the quality of life of the citizens. Even in my generation (I&#039;m 60) many people were not fully aware of the differences between the Soviet Union and the U.S., or East Germany and West Germany. Today&#039;s students probably have no clue at all about this, since Communism disintegrated when they were toddlers. Unfortunately I don&#039;t have a specific reference at hand - I am just making a general suggestion to start with the facts of economic history before getting into economic theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Going back to the original question, it is not clear why you would give your relative a textbook. Surely there is a required textbook for Economics 101, and he isn&#8217;t going to want to read another one.</p>

	<p>What is needed is something to supplement the required textbook. Many of the suggestions here are worth checking out, so why not just point him to this blog and let him decide what would be most useful to him?</p>

	<p>Recently I had occasion to reread Keynes&#8217;s &#8220;Essays in Persuasion.&#8221; At the time (i.e. before I read this blog) it occurred to me that Part 2 of that book would be an ideal introduction to macroeconomics. It presents the basic ideas of the General Theory in a nontechnical way.</p>

	<p>Students should be told the basic fact that how one organizes an economy makes a difference in the quality of life of the citizens. Even in my generation (I&#8217;m 60) many people were not fully aware of the differences between the Soviet Union and the U.S., or East Germany and West Germany. Today&#8217;s students probably have no clue at all about this, since Communism disintegrated when they were toddlers. Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have a specific reference at hand &#8211; I am just making a general suggestion to start with the facts of economic history before getting into economic theory.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-176097</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-176097</guid>
		<description>Man, I go away for the weekend and I miss an opportunity to kick Keen around. And yes he thoroughly deserves the kickin&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Man, I go away for the weekend and I miss an opportunity to kick Keen around. And yes he thoroughly deserves the kickin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Greinecker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-176077</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Greinecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hodgson is quoted by historians of economic thought, not economists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hodgson is quoted by historians of economic thought, not economists.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-176073</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-176073</guid>
		<description>Whoa! Ormerod is clearly a maverick, but Hodgson? (Whose critique is actually far more radical than Ormerod&#039;s). Well according to his website: &#039;Listed in Who’s Who in Economics (4th edn., Edward Elgar, 2003) as one of the foremost 1,168 living economists in the world – and one of the foremost 64 living economists residing in the UK – based on citation analysis of journal articles published in 1990-2000.&#039;. 

You may disagree with him, but comparing him, not just to an IDer but to a &lt;i&gt;creationist&lt;/i&gt; would seem to be going just a little far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Whoa! Ormerod is clearly a maverick, but Hodgson? (Whose critique is actually far more radical than Ormerod&#8217;s). Well according to his website: &#8216;Listed in Who&#8217;s Who in Economics (4th edn., Edward Elgar, 2003) as one of the foremost 1,168 living economists in the world &#8211; and one of the foremost 64 living economists residing in the <span class="caps">UK </span>&#8211; based on citation analysis of journal articles published in 1990-2000.&#8217;.</p>

	<p>You may disagree with him, but comparing him, not just to an IDer but to a <i>creationist</i> would seem to be going just a little far.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Hutton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175983</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Hutton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 05:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175983</guid>
		<description>I read Krugman’s Principles of Economics and I didn’t laugh once. I would recommend the Daily Mirror’s Savings and Investment Guide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I read Krugman&#8217;s Principles of Economics and I didn&#8217;t laugh once. I would recommend the Daily Mirror&#8217;s Savings and Investment Guide.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175973</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Oct 2006 02:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175973</guid>
		<description>&quot;Economics is to the economy as physics is to baseball (maybe football for nonAmericans)&quot; -- Discuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Economics is to the economy as physics is to baseball (maybe football for nonAmericans)&#8221;&#8212;Discuss.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Vienneau</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175954</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Vienneau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175954</guid>
		<description>I &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://robertvienneau.blogspot.com/2006/10/reviews-of-keens-debunking-economics.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;list &lt;/a&gt; those reviews of Keen&#039;s book of which I am aware. As far as I am &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://robertvienneau.blogspot.com/2006/10/should-i-read-petri-and-hahn.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;concerned&lt;/a&gt;, it has not been established that models of dynamic equilibria are immune from Sraffian criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I <a HREF="http://robertvienneau.blogspot.com/2006/10/reviews-of-keens-debunking-economics.html" rel="nofollow">list </a> those reviews of Keen&#8217;s book of which I am aware. As far as I am <a HREF="http://robertvienneau.blogspot.com/2006/10/should-i-read-petri-and-hahn.html" rel="nofollow">concerned</a>, it has not been established that models of dynamic equilibria are immune from Sraffian criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175944</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175944</guid>
		<description>Sen&#039;s model of rationality isn&#039;t sophisticated. It&#039;s commonsensical, and it&#039;s ill-suited to formalization since it&#039;s open-ended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sen&#8217;s model of rationality isn&#8217;t sophisticated. It&#8217;s commonsensical, and it&#8217;s ill-suited to formalization since it&#8217;s open-ended.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175942</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175942</guid>
		<description>If all economists were so modest, Michael, I probably wouldn&#039;t be talking about this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If all economists were so modest, Michael, I probably wouldn&#8217;t be talking about this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Greinecker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175941</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Greinecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175941</guid>
		<description>Walt: Here is a excerpt from a review of Keens book by Miroslav Misina: &lt;blockquote&gt;It is well known that only under certain conditions the market demand will possess the properties of individual demand. The main condition is that the utility functions have Gorman form, which author correctly identifies4.

4 This turns out to be the key condition only if we limit ourselves to the consideration of aggregate demand as a function of the mean level of wealth. Weaker conditions can be imposed if aggregate demand is allowed to depend on some other aggregates. None of these issues are mentioned by the author. See MWG, Proposition 4.B.1 and the discussion that follows it. Incidentally, the author mislabels the aggregation conditions as Sonnenschein-Mantel-Debreu conditions. This is rather curious, given that the author provides Shafer and Sonnenschein (1982) as a reference. For a discussion of Sonnenschein-Mantel-Debreu theorem, see MWG,
Sec. 17.E.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is IMO a svery trong indication of Keen writing about something without understanding it. You simply don´t get Gormans stuff from reading a paper on excess demand functions (the paper in question is the entry on excess demand functions in the Handbook of Mathematical Economics).

John Emerson:

I agree that using the more sophisticated models, not every economic theory can be replicated. But I don´t think one should look for a economic &quot;theory of everything&quot;. What one should hope for is illumination of some problems. And I definitely think economics can help clarify many issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Walt: Here is a excerpt from a review of Keens book by Miroslav Misina: <blockquote>It is well known that only under certain conditions the market demand will possess the properties of individual demand. The main condition is that the utility functions have Gorman form, which author correctly identifies4.</blockquote></p>

	<p>4 This turns out to be the key condition only if we limit ourselves to the consideration of aggregate demand as a function of the mean level of wealth. Weaker conditions can be imposed if aggregate demand is allowed to depend on some other aggregates. None of these issues are mentioned by the author. See <span class="caps">MWG</span>, Proposition 4.B.1 and the discussion that follows it. Incidentally, the author mislabels the aggregation conditions as Sonnenschein-Mantel-Debreu conditions. This is rather curious, given that the author provides Shafer and Sonnenschein (1982) as a reference. For a discussion of Sonnenschein-Mantel-Debreu theorem, see <span class="caps">MWG</span>,<br />
Sec. 17.E.<br />
</p>

	<p>This is <span class="caps">IMO</span> a svery trong indication of Keen writing about something without understanding it. You simply don&#180;t get Gormans stuff from reading a paper on excess demand functions (the paper in question is the entry on excess demand functions in the Handbook of Mathematical Economics).</p>

	<p>John Emerson:</p>

	<p>I agree that using the more sophisticated models, not every economic theory can be replicated. But I don&#180;t think one should look for a economic &#8220;theory of everything&#8221;. What one should hope for is illumination of some problems. And I definitely think economics can help clarify many issues.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175939</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175939</guid>
		<description>Median with respect to status within the profession. Median with respect to orthodoxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Median with respect to status within the profession. Median with respect to orthodoxy.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175938</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175938</guid>
		<description>Michael, I have bookmarked your link.

I don&#039;&#039;t think that you have to give a viable alternative to bad theories. This seems to be the fall-back position in defense of economics. I rally have no alternative solution to the problems raised by alchemy or astrology, for example.

My entire interest in economics is in the way economics relates to what else we know about things from other points of view, and in the effects that economics as a profession has on the world. I&#039;m not a competing economist, but an outside observer of economics.

I&#039;ve spent some time recently looking at what economists say about rationality. Roughly speaking, Sen and Gintis seem to come up with definitions of rationality which are not totally ridiculous and unreal, but I wonder whether they could ever function the way the simpler definitions do for economists trying to describe the economy systematically. They, especially Sen&#039;s version, seem too messy to plug into a system. So the gain in realism and in ethical plausibility comes at the cost of depriving systematic economists of a neat little tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael, I have bookmarked your link.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;&#8216;t think that you have to give a viable alternative to bad theories. This seems to be the fall-back position in defense of economics. I rally have no alternative solution to the problems raised by alchemy or astrology, for example.</p>

	<p>My entire interest in economics is in the way economics relates to what else we know about things from other points of view, and in the effects that economics as a profession has on the world. I&#8217;m not a competing economist, but an outside observer of economics.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve spent some time recently looking at what economists say about rationality. Roughly speaking, Sen and Gintis seem to come up with definitions of rationality which are not totally ridiculous and unreal, but I wonder whether they could ever function the way the simpler definitions do for economists trying to describe the economy systematically. They, especially Sen&#8217;s version, seem too messy to plug into a system. So the gain in realism and in ethical plausibility comes at the cost of depriving systematic economists of a neat little tool.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Greinecker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175936</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Greinecker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175936</guid>
		<description>walt and john emerson: I admit that the creationism analogy was inappropriate.

john emerson. What is a median economist? Median with respect to what variable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>walt and john emerson: I admit that the creationism analogy was inappropriate.</p>

	<p>john emerson. What is a median economist? Median with respect to what variable?</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175935</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175935</guid>
		<description>As mentioned, I reviewed Keen&#039;s book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uq.edu.au/economics/johnquiggin/Reviews/Keen0112.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a while back&lt;/a&gt;. Shorter Quiggin on Keen: good in parts. Opening para

&lt;blockquote&gt;As Steve Keen observes, this is far from the first book to attack the validity of economics, and it is unlikely to be the last. Similarly, this is not the first review of such a book, and surely not the last. Some points are more or less inevitable in such a review, so I will make them as briefly as possible before moving on. First, critiques are, by nature, stronger in attacking existing orthodoxy than in presenting alternatives. Secondly, most criticisms are not entirely new, and the proponents of orthodoxy usually have some sort of response. Third, the version of orthodoxy presented in a critique will almost always be a little out-of-date and something of a caricature. Keen&#039;s book will no doubt generate all of these responses, but it is, nonetheless, well worth reading.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As mentioned, I reviewed Keen&#8217;s book <a href="http://www.uq.edu.au/economics/johnquiggin/Reviews/Keen0112.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">a while back</a>. Shorter Quiggin on Keen: good in parts. Opening para</p>

	<p><blockquote>As Steve Keen observes, this is far from the first book to attack the validity of economics, and it is unlikely to be the last. Similarly, this is not the first review of such a book, and surely not the last. Some points are more or less inevitable in such a review, so I will make them as briefly as possible before moving on. First, critiques are, by nature, stronger in attacking existing orthodoxy than in presenting alternatives. Secondly, most criticisms are not entirely new, and the proponents of orthodoxy usually have some sort of response. Third, the version of orthodoxy presented in a critique will almost always be a little out-of-date and something of a caricature. Keen&#8217;s book will no doubt generate all of these responses, but it is, nonetheless, well worth reading.</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/comment-page-2/#comment-175934</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 20:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/16/basic-economics-bleg/#comment-175934</guid>
		<description>Does Keen&#039;s critique apply to the standard average median economist? 

I&#039;m curious as to whether &quot;dynamic equilibrium&quot; isn&#039;t a kind of fudge of indeterminacy, chaos, and the like. As far as I know, physical and historical reality is never close to equilibrium and doesn&#039;t even necessarily tend to converge to equilibrium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Does Keen&#8217;s critique apply to the standard average median economist?</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m curious as to whether &#8220;dynamic equilibrium&#8221; isn&#8217;t a kind of fudge of indeterminacy, chaos, and the like. As far as I know, physical and historical reality is never close to equilibrium and doesn&#8217;t even necessarily tend to converge to equilibrium.</p>
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