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	<title>Comments on: Liberal darling</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176580</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176580</guid>
		<description>Barry:
&quot;Hasn&#039;t the management of The Economist been clearly turning their magazine into a right-wing rag for a while? I expect that Megan has a bright future there.&quot;

They did endorse Kerry in &#039;04. That certainly doesn&#039;t burnish their liberal credentials, but a &quot;right wing rag&quot; it is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Barry:<br />
&#8220;Hasn&#8217;t the management of The Economist been clearly turning their magazine into a right-wing rag for a while? I expect that Megan has a bright future there.&#8221;</p>

	<p>They did endorse Kerry in &#8216;04. That certainly doesn&#8217;t burnish their liberal credentials, but a &#8220;right wing rag&#8221; it is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Hogan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176555</link>
		<dc:creator>Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176555</guid>
		<description>DeWine IS in trouble because of ethical problems. They&#039;re just not HIS ethical problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>DeWine IS in trouble because of ethical problems. They&#8217;re just not <span class="caps">HIS</span> ethical problems.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176545</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176545</guid>
		<description>However, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a good idea for anyone who has been in congress to be president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>However, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a good idea for anyone who has been in congress to be president.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176544</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 14:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176544</guid>
		<description>John Edwards might make a decent president.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Edwards might make a decent president.</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive_Patriot</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176526</link>
		<dc:creator>Progressive_Patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 04:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176526</guid>
		<description>Clearly the author is clueless as to the reality of American politics, but I&#039;m not sure their cluelessness has anything to do with being an ocean away from D.C. -- quite the contrary, while the &quot;Hilary as liberal darling&quot; is idiotic, I&#039;m not sure that it&#039;s not in fact indicative of the inside the beltway, gang of 500 conventional wisdom.

And, as a progressive firmely in the Anybody-but-Hilary* (* except for Bayh) camp, I actually think this could redound to the tremendous benefit of liberals and progressives in 2008.  That is, the emergent &quot;un-Hilary&quot; candidate  (unless it&#039;s Bayh or maybe Biden) is almost certain to be better across the board, but in particular on national security (i.e., more inclined to get us the hell out of Iraq and less likely to embrace a &quot;kinder, gentler neoconservatism) and on civil liberties (i.e., less inclined to support, say, torture or partially repealing the first amendment to &quot;protect the flag&quot; whenever it&#039;s seen as politically expedient to do so).  But if the un-Hilary (whether it&#039;s Russ Feingold, or John Edwards, or Wes Clark, or the new-and-improved Al Gore, or Bill Richardson) can not only knock her out of the race but in the course of doing so earn credentials in the mainstream media narrative as being the &quot;sensible moderate centrist alternative to the wacky flag-burning leftist Hilary Clinton,&quot; that&#039;s a double-whammy.

As anyone who&#039;s been paying attention over the past six years knows, reality matters far less than the mainstream media frame (&quot;straight-talking John McCain,&quot; anyone?).  And after all, it&#039;s about time the superficiality and idiocy of the inside-the-beltway punditocracy works in our favor for once...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Clearly the author is clueless as to the reality of American politics, but I&#8217;m not sure their cluelessness has anything to do with being an ocean away from D.C.&#8212;quite the contrary, while the &#8220;Hilary as liberal darling&#8221; is idiotic, I&#8217;m not sure that it&#8217;s not in fact indicative of the inside the beltway, gang of 500 conventional wisdom.</p>

	<p>And, as a progressive firmely in the Anybody-but-Hilary* (* except for Bayh) camp, I actually think this could redound to the tremendous benefit of liberals and progressives in 2008.  That is, the emergent &#8220;un-Hilary&#8221; candidate  (unless it&#8217;s Bayh or maybe Biden) is almost certain to be better across the board, but in particular on national security (i.e., more inclined to get us the hell out of Iraq and less likely to embrace a &#8220;kinder, gentler neoconservatism) and on civil liberties (i.e., less inclined to support, say, torture or partially repealing the first amendment to &#8220;protect the flag&#8221; whenever it&#8217;s seen as politically expedient to do so).  But if the un-Hilary (whether it&#8217;s Russ Feingold, or John Edwards, or Wes Clark, or the new-and-improved Al Gore, or Bill Richardson) can not only knock her out of the race but in the course of doing so earn credentials in the mainstream media narrative as being the &#8220;sensible moderate centrist alternative to the wacky flag-burning leftist Hilary Clinton,&#8221; that&#8217;s a double-whammy.</p>

	<p>As anyone who&#8217;s been paying attention over the past six years knows, reality matters far less than the mainstream media frame (&#8220;straight-talking John McCain,&#8221; anyone?).  And after all, it&#8217;s about time the superficiality and idiocy of the inside-the-beltway punditocracy works in our favor for once&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176518</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176518</guid>
		<description>As a (US) college freshman ages ago, I thought the E&#039;s political coverage was pretty uniform - slightly superior to every other country, but not politically biased. Except for anything to do with Northern Ireland, which was nastier and grudge-filled. 

The best part was the mailing lists I got on through the subscription: guides for CEOs to outwit cowardly boards of directors, offshore registries for megayachts, private jets, long before the internet bubble made these ads commonplace. 

Now it&#039;s all puff pieces, like something from an in-flight magazine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a (US) college freshman ages ago, I thought the E&#8217;s political coverage was pretty uniform &#8211; slightly superior to every other country, but not politically biased. Except for anything to do with Northern Ireland, which was nastier and grudge-filled.</p>

	<p>The best part was the mailing lists I got on through the subscription: guides for CEOs to outwit cowardly boards of directors, offshore registries for megayachts, private jets, long before the internet bubble made these ads commonplace.</p>

	<p>Now it&#8217;s all puff pieces, like something from an in-flight magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Paradis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176517</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Paradis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Oct 2006 01:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176517</guid>
		<description>My first reaction to the magazine is James Fallows&#039; old crack about the credibility of a British magazine named The Economist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My first reaction to the magazine is James Fallows&#8217; old crack about the credibility of a British magazine named The Economist.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176495</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176495</guid>
		<description>dearieme -- don&#039;t you think you&#039;ve answered your own question? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>dearieme&#8212;don&#8217;t you think you&#8217;ve answered your own question? :)</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176494</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176494</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve noticed over the last few years that British people tend to say &quot;the Economist is a really good magazine, although the British coverage is a bit strange&quot;, Americans say &quot;the Economist is really good, apart from the loony American coverage&quot; and Europeans say &quot;you have to read the Economist for the British and American coverage, but the European stuff is bullshit&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve noticed over the last few years that British people tend to say &#8220;the Economist is a really good magazine, although the British coverage is a bit strange&#8221;, Americans say &#8220;the Economist is really good, apart from the loony American coverage&#8221; and Europeans say &#8220;you have to read the Economist for the British and American coverage, but the European stuff is bullshit&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Economist goes &#171; Entertaining Research</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176489</link>
		<dc:creator>Economist goes &#171; Entertaining Research</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 06:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176489</guid>
		<description>[...] Salon way; according to Crooked Timber, all you need to access The Economist is to watch an ad. Have fun! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Salon way; according to Crooked Timber, all you need to access The Economist is to watch an ad. Have fun! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brittain33</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176487</link>
		<dc:creator>Brittain33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Oct 2006 04:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176487</guid>
		<description>This week&#039;s issue also says that DeWine is in trouble because of ethical problems and Jim Talent, like Claire McCaskill, is a moderate. Both comments are objectively wrong and not even subjectively likely for their current races. 

If DeWine has ethical problems, they&#039;re not enough to stand out next to Burns&#039; or Allen&#039;s, and perceptions of his ethics have nothing to do with his impending defeat. Talent, meanwhile, is a conservative with the voting record to prove it. I think that because he doesn&#039;t come across as a snakehandling lunatic to The Economist, but as a nerdy suburban Dad, they must assume he&#039;s one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This week&#8217;s issue also says that DeWine is in trouble because of ethical problems and Jim Talent, like Claire McCaskill, is a moderate. Both comments are objectively wrong and not even subjectively likely for their current races.</p>

	<p>If DeWine has ethical problems, they&#8217;re not enough to stand out next to Burns&#8217; or Allen&#8217;s, and perceptions of his ethics have nothing to do with his impending defeat. Talent, meanwhile, is a conservative with the voting record to prove it. I think that because he doesn&#8217;t come across as a snakehandling lunatic to The Economist, but as a nerdy suburban Dad, they must assume he&#8217;s one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176460</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176460</guid>
		<description>34: Selection bias up the yinyang, Avedon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>34: Selection bias up the yinyang, Avedon.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176459</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176459</guid>
		<description>&quot;Hey ed. Didn’t know Kerry and Lieberman’s records were identical. Do you have a source?&quot;

Sorry I didn&#039;t respond earlier, I&#039;ve been a bit busy since posting that comment.

If you have either the CQ or the National Journal political almanacs, you can get a quick and dirty look at Liberman&#039;s and Kerry&#039;s voting records.  There are also several online sites that keep track of this stuff.  I don&#039;t have time to retrive the details, but the information that would back up the claim is accessible.

Both Senators supported NAFTA, and have been supportive of the other big trade agreements.  They both backed McCain-Feingold.  They both voted for the second Iraq War, despite Kerry&#039;s later attempts to spin the issue.  They both voted against Clinton&#039;s impeachment, in this case it was Lieberman spinning otherwise.  They generally have been reliable votes for the Democratic leadership in the Senate, though with something of a pro-corporate slant.

Kerry voted against the first Gulf War, and Lieberman supported it.  I can&#039;t think of any other major issue where their voting records diverge.

Edwards, by the way, was the first Democratic nominee for either president or vice president to deviate from the major Democratic fundraisers&#039; positions on a major issue, in his case trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Hey ed. Didn&#8217;t know Kerry and Lieberman&#8217;s records were identical. Do you have a source?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Sorry I didn&#8217;t respond earlier, I&#8217;ve been a bit busy since posting that comment.</p>

	<p>If you have either the CQ or the National Journal political almanacs, you can get a quick and dirty look at Liberman&#8217;s and Kerry&#8217;s voting records.  There are also several online sites that keep track of this stuff.  I don&#8217;t have time to retrive the details, but the information that would back up the claim is accessible.</p>

	<p>Both Senators supported <span class="caps">NAFTA</span>, and have been supportive of the other big trade agreements.  They both backed McCain-Feingold.  They both voted for the second Iraq War, despite Kerry&#8217;s later attempts to spin the issue.  They both voted against Clinton&#8217;s impeachment, in this case it was Lieberman spinning otherwise.  They generally have been reliable votes for the Democratic leadership in the Senate, though with something of a pro-corporate slant.</p>

	<p>Kerry voted against the first Gulf War, and Lieberman supported it.  I can&#8217;t think of any other major issue where their voting records diverge.</p>

	<p>Edwards, by the way, was the first Democratic nominee for either president or vice president to deviate from the major Democratic fundraisers&#8217; positions on a major issue, in his case trade.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176453</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176453</guid>
		<description>Sure, but the selection bias was precisely in favor of liberal activists, which is the group in question. It strikes me as a pretty good data point. The notable thing was how low Hillary was on the totem pole, ranking something like seventh with less than 5% of the vote -- not really whether Feingold&#039;s totals were padded or not, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sure, but the selection bias was precisely in favor of liberal activists, which is the group in question. It strikes me as a pretty good data point. The notable thing was how low Hillary was on the totem pole, ranking something like seventh with less than 5% of the vote&#8212;not really whether Feingold&#8217;s totals were padded or not, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: r€nato</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/comment-page-1/#comment-176452</link>
		<dc:creator>r€nato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 17:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/20/liberal-darlings/#comment-176452</guid>
		<description>the comment about Hillary being the fave of &#039;liberal activists&#039; jumped out at me right away, too.

Says who? You&#039;re exactly right; this is what REPUBLICANS think that Democrats want. THEY think Hillary is a screaming liberal; if they would just stop and ask Democrats - hell, any random Democrat would probably do - they&#039;d find out that Hillary is considered just another triangluating DLC Republican-lite centrist, and a lot of us are suspicious of how much of a &#039;real&#039; Democrat she would be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>the comment about Hillary being the fave of &#8216;liberal activists&#8217; jumped out at me right away, too.</p>

	<p>Says who? You&#8217;re exactly right; this is what <span class="caps">REPUBLICANS</span> think that Democrats want. <span class="caps">THEY</span> think Hillary is a screaming liberal; if they would just stop and ask Democrats &#8211; hell, any random Democrat would probably do &#8211; they&#8217;d find out that Hillary is considered just another triangluating <span class="caps">DLC </span>Republican-lite centrist, and a lot of us are suspicious of how much of a &#8216;real&#8217; Democrat she would be.</p>
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