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	<title>Comments on: 1956</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176760</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176760</guid>
		<description>Poland must be different; I believe the Soviet communists did sing the Internationale every time they had their party congress, all the way thru the 80s. And there were plenty of popular so-called &#039;patriotic&#039; songs there, usually exploiting the WWII memories one way or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Poland must be different; I believe the Soviet communists did sing the Internationale every time they had their party congress, all the way thru the 80s. And there were plenty of popular so-called &#8216;patriotic&#8217; songs there, usually exploiting the <span class="caps">WWII</span> memories one way or another.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176746</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176746</guid>
		<description>This discussion is probably done with, but there was another slightly weird thing up in Jbruck&#039;s comment above. Was the Internationale a &quot;popular communist song&quot; in the 1980&#039;s Hungary? Among children or even adults? The Internationale was already politically suspect from the Soviet point of view by the 1930&#039;s, partly due to the Spanish Civil War (recall the fate of &quot;Beasts of England&quot; in the Animal Farm). The International was usually  sung at COUNTER-government demonstrations of the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s and could easily land you in jail.

And by the 80&#039;s if not already by the 70&#039;s most of these regimes realized that trying to control the masses with super-kitschy songs about Mao swimming across the Yangtze or the like (I just remember that one in particular) wasn&#039;t working. Rather they figured the masses would be more docile if they listened to vapid, meaningless pop music that emulated vapid, meaningless pop music of the West. There was NO &quot;popular communist songs&quot; of the 1980&#039;s or even 1970&#039;s. There might have been some hold overs from the 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s, sung as mockery and satire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This discussion is probably done with, but there was another slightly weird thing up in Jbruck&#8217;s comment above. Was the Internationale a &#8220;popular communist song&#8221; in the 1980&#8217;s Hungary? Among children or even adults? The Internationale was already politically suspect from the Soviet point of view by the 1930&#8217;s, partly due to the Spanish Civil War (recall the fate of &#8220;Beasts of England&#8221; in the Animal Farm). The International was usually  sung at <span class="caps">COUNTER</span>-government demonstrations of the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s and could easily land you in jail.</p>

	<p>And by the 80&#8217;s if not already by the 70&#8217;s most of these regimes realized that trying to control the masses with super-kitschy songs about Mao swimming across the Yangtze or the like (I just remember that one in particular) wasn&#8217;t working. Rather they figured the masses would be more docile if they listened to vapid, meaningless pop music that emulated vapid, meaningless pop music of the West. There was <span class="caps">NO </span>&#8220;popular communist songs&#8221; of the 1980&#8217;s or even 1970&#8217;s. There might have been some hold overs from the 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s, sung as mockery and satire.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176690</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176690</guid>
		<description>Ha - four tankists and dog, Polish TV series. I remember this one, it was very popular when I was a kid. Good actors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ha &#8211; four tankists and dog, Polish TV series. I remember this one, it was very popular when I was a kid. Good actors.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176666</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176666</guid>
		<description>Ok, I think this is the part which puzzled me:
&quot;Having grown up in a system that didn’t recognize this day as worthy of mention (given that its whole point was to topple the Soviet-influenced regime) I have never had much of a connection to it.&quot;

The way I remember it many dates were important PRECISELY because the system didn&#039;t recognize them and that&#039;s where the connection came from. The big riots and demonstrations in Poland of the early 80&#039;s always happened on days that didn&#039;t exist. Reading Kundera, Havel and others I get the impression that a similar thing was true closer to the Vltava. Don&#039;t know as much about similar literature of the Danube though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ok, I think this is the part which puzzled me:<br />
&#8220;Having grown up in a system that didn&#8217;t recognize this day as worthy of mention (given that its whole point was to topple the Soviet-influenced regime) I have never had much of a connection to it.&#8221;</p>

	<p>The way I remember it many dates were important <span class="caps">PRECISELY</span> because the system didn&#8217;t recognize them and that&#8217;s where the connection came from. The big riots and demonstrations in Poland of the early 80&#8217;s always happened on days that didn&#8217;t exist. Reading Kundera, Havel and others I get the impression that a similar thing was true closer to the Vltava. Don&#8217;t know as much about similar literature of the Danube though.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176664</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176664</guid>
		<description>Jbruck, I&#039;m not disagreeing. I just rewatched &quot;Four Tankmen and a Dog&quot; (don&#039;t know if they had that in Hungary, they did in many EE and even socialist middle east countries) which is a show that I&#039;ve looked back upon with quite a large dose of nostalgia. As a result I&#039;ve been humming old school Commie songs all day. Nonetheless I remember half of my elementary school playing hookie on May 1st in order to avoid the parades, widespread popularity of a very very well done propaganda show about WW2 not withstanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jbruck, I&#8217;m not disagreeing. I just rewatched &#8220;Four Tankmen and a Dog&#8221; (don&#8217;t know if they had that in Hungary, they did in many EE and even socialist middle east countries) which is a show that I&#8217;ve looked back upon with quite a large dose of nostalgia. As a result I&#8217;ve been humming old school Commie songs all day. Nonetheless I remember half of my elementary school playing hookie on May 1st in order to avoid the parades, widespread popularity of a very very well done propaganda show about <span class="caps">WW2</span> not withstanding.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176655</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 23:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176655</guid>
		<description>Jacob, thanks, that was interesting, I wasn&#039;t aware of these links. Just to clarify, a LOT of Hungarians do have significant ties to this date and these events. It&#039;s just my particular generation that probably has a less-than-obvious connection. But I probably shouldn&#039;t even speak for my entire generation. The fact that I haven&#039;t lived in Hungary since 1992 means that I haven&#039;t been around for the reemergence of this event as a legimate important one in the country&#039;s history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jacob, thanks, that was interesting, I wasn&#8217;t aware of these links. Just to clarify, a <span class="caps">LOT</span> of Hungarians do have significant ties to this date and these events. It&#8217;s just my particular generation that probably has a less-than-obvious connection. But I probably shouldn&#8217;t even speak for my entire generation. The fact that I haven&#8217;t lived in Hungary since 1992 means that I haven&#8217;t been around for the reemergence of this event as a legimate important one in the country&#8217;s history.</p>
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		<title>By: jbruck</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176652</link>
		<dc:creator>jbruck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176652</guid>
		<description>There are allways things which are not intuitive from outside. Most of my friends in hungary (who were children during the 80&#039;s), even those who support the conserative side(which usually means disliking everything about the communists), are cheared up, at least to some extend, by hearing/singing those then-popular commnist songs like the International and the like. We were young, therefore happy, and those songs do suit young people - so, memory is sweet, as it often happens. Ask a psychologist for a more latin-worded explanation. I must conclude that even having similar sweet memories from the much worse hitler-germany does not make someone a nazi...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are allways things which are not intuitive from outside. Most of my friends in hungary (who were children during the 80&#8217;s), even those who support the conserative side(which usually means disliking everything about the communists), are cheared up, at least to some extend, by hearing/singing those then-popular commnist songs like the International and the like. We were young, therefore happy, and those songs do suit young people &#8211; so, memory is sweet, as it often happens. Ask a psychologist for a more latin-worded explanation. I must conclude that even having similar sweet memories from the much worse hitler-germany does not make someone a nazi&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176637</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 21:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176637</guid>
		<description>Sure, it&#039;s not black-and-white, but there were often great songs that would go along with various celebrations and you can make these things fun enough that it really doesn&#039;t make that much of a difference to an 8-year-old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sure, it&#8217;s not black-and-white, but there were often great songs that would go along with various celebrations and you can make these things fun enough that it really doesn&#8217;t make that much of a difference to an 8-year-old.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176632</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176632</guid>
		<description>Actually I&#039;d disagree (depends who the &#039;people&#039; you refer to are) but fair enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually I&#8217;d disagree (depends who the &#8216;people&#8217; you refer to are) but fair enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176631</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176631</guid>
		<description>Radek, when you&#039;re eight years old you celebrate whatever people tell you to celebrate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Radek, when you&#8217;re eight years old you celebrate whatever people tell you to celebrate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Christensen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176630</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176630</guid>
		<description>A note about the political implications of the Hungarian uprising outside of Hungary:

In Denmark, the spring of 1956 saw a major labour market conflict which the then leader of the Danish Communist Party, Aksel Larsen, used very skillfully to enhance his position and the position of his party. The DCP had won some political support during the later part of the German occupation but lost most of it again in the early cold war-era so gaining credibility as defenders of workers&#039; rights would be one way back to political relevance.

Here, you should know that Danish - as indeed all Scandinavian - Social Democrats and trade unions were fiercely anti-communist (they ran propaganda and intelligence offices directed against Communists in the trade unions) and the prospect of a strong Communist presence in the trade unions was seen as a real threat by leading trade unionists and Social Democrats.

But just as they were on a political roll, Larsen and the Communists were hit by a disaster: The Hungarian uprising (Nikita Khrushchev&#039;s anti-Stalinist speech predated the labour market conflict and had already spread doubts among a number of leading Danish Communists).

Even when you leave aside the anti-Communist element, many Danes would find it easy to identify with the Hungarians: Small country (think: Denmark) being suppressed by big-power neighbour (think: Germany). Since 1940 Danes had been agonising endlessly over the handling of the German occupation - and they still are.

The Hungarian uprising was also the first mass-televised international event and aid for Hungarian refugees was organised through public radio and tv.

But back to the Communists: Their hopes of gaining a mass following were effectively destroyed after Hungary. In 1958, Aksel Larsen left the DCP to found an independent Socialist Party which has been an integral part of Danish politics since the 1960 election (since 1960, Denmark has always had a non-Communist left wing which was very strong in an European comparision: Leftist Social Democrats found a Socialist party more acceptable than a Communist).

In a European context one might say that the question of Europcommunism was &quot;solved&quot; in Denmark following the Hungarian uprising. (The Swedish Left Party is still agonising about its Communist past and only shed the label &quot;Communist&quot; in 1990, so there was nothing automatic about the process - but then the Swedish political history during the 1940s and 1950s also differs from the Danish). Except for a minor revival during the 1970s, the DCP faded into oblivion following the founding of the Socialist Party.

Of cause the Hungarian uprising didn&#039;t &lt;em&gt;cause&lt;/em&gt; the realignment on the Danish left but it - or rather: the way it was interpreted and used in the political debate - is an integral part of Danish political history in the 1950s which has also had lasting effects.

Sorry about the lecture but the point is: Given the right circumstances, political events in one country can have effects in another. But it&#039;s a strange irony that Danes would probably have a more intimate relationship with the Hungarian uprising than the Hungarians do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A note about the political implications of the Hungarian uprising outside of Hungary:</p>

	<p>In Denmark, the spring of 1956 saw a major labour market conflict which the then leader of the Danish Communist Party, Aksel Larsen, used very skillfully to enhance his position and the position of his party. The <span class="caps">DCP</span> had won some political support during the later part of the German occupation but lost most of it again in the early cold war-era so gaining credibility as defenders of workers&#8217; rights would be one way back to political relevance.</p>

	<p>Here, you should know that Danish &#8211; as indeed all Scandinavian &#8211; Social Democrats and trade unions were fiercely anti-communist (they ran propaganda and intelligence offices directed against Communists in the trade unions) and the prospect of a strong Communist presence in the trade unions was seen as a real threat by leading trade unionists and Social Democrats.</p>

	<p>But just as they were on a political roll, Larsen and the Communists were hit by a disaster: The Hungarian uprising (Nikita Khrushchev&#8217;s anti-Stalinist speech predated the labour market conflict and had already spread doubts among a number of leading Danish Communists).</p>

	<p>Even when you leave aside the anti-Communist element, many Danes would find it easy to identify with the Hungarians: Small country (think: Denmark) being suppressed by big-power neighbour (think: Germany). Since 1940 Danes had been agonising endlessly over the handling of the German occupation &#8211; and they still are.</p>

	<p>The Hungarian uprising was also the first mass-televised international event and aid for Hungarian refugees was organised through public radio and tv.</p>

	<p>But back to the Communists: Their hopes of gaining a mass following were effectively destroyed after Hungary. In 1958, Aksel Larsen left the <span class="caps">DCP</span> to found an independent Socialist Party which has been an integral part of Danish politics since the 1960 election (since 1960, Denmark has always had a non-Communist left wing which was very strong in an European comparision: Leftist Social Democrats found a Socialist party more acceptable than a Communist).</p>

	<p>In a European context one might say that the question of Europcommunism was &#8220;solved&#8221; in Denmark following the Hungarian uprising. (The Swedish Left Party is still agonising about its Communist past and only shed the label &#8220;Communist&#8221; in 1990, so there was nothing automatic about the process &#8211; but then the Swedish political history during the 1940s and 1950s also differs from the Danish). Except for a minor revival during the 1970s, the <span class="caps">DCP</span> faded into oblivion following the founding of the Socialist Party.</p>

	<p>Of cause the Hungarian uprising didn&#8217;t <em>cause</em> the realignment on the Danish left but it &#8211; or rather: the way it was interpreted and used in the political debate &#8211; is an integral part of Danish political history in the 1950s which has also had lasting effects.</p>

	<p>Sorry about the lecture but the point is: Given the right circumstances, political events in one country can have effects in another. But it&#8217;s a strange irony that Danes would probably have a more intimate relationship with the Hungarian uprising than the Hungarians do.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176625</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176625</guid>
		<description>re: November 7th

&quot;Celebrated&quot; or &quot;Were supposed to celebrate&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>re: November 7th</p>

	<p>&#8220;Celebrated&#8221; or &#8220;Were supposed to celebrate&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176615</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176615</guid>
		<description>Dear Eszter!
I&#039;m using a nickname - for non-Hungarians Dr. Minorka is character in a very funny children book. (But I&#039;m using a valid e-mail address!)
The reason is simple:
I work for the Socialist Party (for one of the few honest, and intelligent politicans). Plus I work on various governmental projects as a consultant. I do  not want to loose my livelihood, and I do not want to cause troubles for my political friends. Politically i&#039;m a left-wing socialdemocrat (&quot;Scandinavian modell&quot;).

In a separate privat e-mail I will contact you, with full information.

Best wishes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dear Eszter!<br />
I&#8217;m using a nickname &#8211; for non-Hungarians Dr. Minorka is character in a very funny children book. (But I&#8217;m using a valid e-mail address!)<br />
The reason is simple:<br />
I work for the Socialist Party (for one of the few honest, and intelligent politicans). Plus I work on various governmental projects as a consultant. I do  not want to loose my livelihood, and I do not want to cause troubles for my political friends. Politically i&#8217;m a left-wing socialdemocrat (&#8220;Scandinavian modell&#8221;).</p>

	<p>In a separate privat e-mail I will contact you, with full information.</p>

	<p>Best wishes!</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176614</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176614</guid>
		<description>No connection there. My only mention of the current events was precisely to point out that I see no connection even though some people are trying to make an argument for one (but those people likely don&#039;t overlap with the folks who organized the billboard campaign).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No connection there. My only mention of the current events was precisely to point out that I see no connection even though some people are trying to make an argument for one (but those people likely don&#8217;t overlap with the folks who organized the billboard campaign).</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/comment-page-1/#comment-176607</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/1956/#comment-176607</guid>
		<description>The billboard in the picture has nothing whatsoever to do with the current political events, correct? Because the post makes it sound like it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The billboard in the picture has nothing whatsoever to do with the current political events, correct? Because the post makes it sound like it does.</p>
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