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	<title>Comments on: Hackwork</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176810</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176810</guid>
		<description>Also, a poplular meme is that the only reason those risks were picked up by employers is that in the 40s there were caps on wages.  Employers provided benefits to get around wage caps.

This seems to go along with Hacker&#039;s concession that risk shift probably shouldn&#039;t be avoided, but managed.  Having portable benefits makes sense, but doing so means that employers will be &quot;let off the hook&quot;.  People should manage most of there own risk, but also we probably can provided a universal, safe bottom that doesn&#039;t cost too much.  The goverment can probably protect people&#039;s physical well-being, but protecting their lifestyle and assets seems silly to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, a poplular meme is that the only reason those risks were picked up by employers is that in the 40s there were caps on wages.  Employers provided benefits to get around wage caps.</p>

	<p>This seems to go along with Hacker&#8217;s concession that risk shift probably shouldn&#8217;t be avoided, but managed.  Having portable benefits makes sense, but doing so means that employers will be &#8220;let off the hook&#8221;.  People should manage most of there own risk, but also we probably can provided a universal, safe bottom that doesn&#8217;t cost too much.  The goverment can probably protect people&#8217;s physical well-being, but protecting their lifestyle and assets seems silly to me.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176778</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 23:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176778</guid>
		<description>Henry: no, I wasn&#039;t suggesting people of Hacker&#039;s expertise would do that, more a vague haze in the left-blogosphere. It was probably too general a point to make in a quite specific thread like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Henry: no, I wasn&#8217;t suggesting people of Hacker&#8217;s expertise would do that, more a vague haze in the left-blogosphere. It was probably too general a point to make in a quite specific thread like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176728</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176728</guid>
		<description>astrongmaybe - you&#039;re right on scrupulosity - I&#039;m misusing the word and should have said scrupulousness. On mystifying the European welfare state - I haven&#039;t read anything specific by Hacker on this, but I know that he&#039;s in dialogue with a bunch of political economists and political sociologists (Wolfgang Streeck and co.) who are specialists in this area, and critical of the problems of the continental welfare state model (which is _not_ the European model tout court, a la Esping-Andersen).

Martin - he discusses some of this stuff in the book, albeit at a semi-popular level. The preferences of the median voter clearly do _not_ drive policy outcomes here - see the consistent support for some sort of government driven health reform. The US political system is not one where the median voter counts all that much, b/c of inbuilt institutional mechanisms and political strategies - see Hacker&#039;s previous book with Pierson for a lengthy discussion of this (albeit one that I suspect he&#039;d partly revise in light of the likely election outcomes in a couple of weeks).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>astrongmaybe &#8211; you&#8217;re right on scrupulosity &#8211; I&#8217;m misusing the word and should have said scrupulousness. On mystifying the European welfare state &#8211; I haven&#8217;t read anything specific by Hacker on this, but I know that he&#8217;s in dialogue with a bunch of political economists and political sociologists (Wolfgang Streeck and co.) who are specialists in this area, and critical of the problems of the continental welfare state model (which is <em>not</em> the European model tout court, a la Esping-Andersen).</p>

	<p>Martin &#8211; he discusses some of this stuff in the book, albeit at a semi-popular level. The preferences of the median voter clearly do <em>not</em> drive policy outcomes here &#8211; see the consistent support for some sort of government driven health reform. The US political system is not one where the median voter counts all that much, b/c of inbuilt institutional mechanisms and political strategies &#8211; see Hacker&#8217;s previous book with Pierson for a lengthy discussion of this (albeit one that I suspect he&#8217;d partly revise in light of the likely election outcomes in a couple of weeks).</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176717</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176717</guid>
		<description>Henry,

I haven&#039;t read the book but I have read lots of studies that show that job tenure has not decreased over the last 50 years.  The &quot;good old days&quot; of lifetime employment is a myth.

Second, the increasing number of working women significantly decreases the risk of unemployment to the household. One would think that if people were more concerned about financial risk they would be increasingly rather than decreasingly be in married relationships.

Third, what evidence does he show that employment risk has been increasing?  Unemployment rate changes and the business cycle in general have been relatively moderate in the last 20 years compared to the 20 before that.

Fourth, the increasing access to debt instruments,(does he cite evidence of changes in home ownership over time which has increased over time to historic highs) has improved the ability of people to spread expenses to different times in the life cycle.  

That does live the increasing cost of health care, which, although not as comprehensive as some other countries is quite comprehensive for pregnant mothers and children in poverty, the elderly and the disabled.  One would have a very tough time showing that the risk of adverse health care events on wealth has increased significantly over the last 50 years.  There has been a modest increase in the total number of uninsured but frequently these numbers are not adjusted for immigration.  Even after adjustment for income levels the hispanic population has relatively lower demand for health insurance.

I&#039;m not saying there aren&#039;t people without significant financial and health care risk, I just don&#039;t see the evidence that the relative size of that group has changed dramatically, and in particular changed dramatically due to policy changes.

Furthermore, in a representative form of government its the preferences of the median voter that tend to drive the system.  Did he analyze the risk profile of the median voter over time? Did he look to data on chnages in the risk preferences of people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Henry,</p>

	<p>I haven&#8217;t read the book but I have read lots of studies that show that job tenure has not decreased over the last 50 years.  The &#8220;good old days&#8221; of lifetime employment is a myth.</p>

	<p>Second, the increasing number of working women significantly decreases the risk of unemployment to the household. One would think that if people were more concerned about financial risk they would be increasingly rather than decreasingly be in married relationships.</p>

	<p>Third, what evidence does he show that employment risk has been increasing?  Unemployment rate changes and the business cycle in general have been relatively moderate in the last 20 years compared to the 20 before that.</p>

	<p>Fourth, the increasing access to debt instruments,(does he cite evidence of changes in home ownership over time which has increased over time to historic highs) has improved the ability of people to spread expenses to different times in the life cycle.</p>

	<p>That does live the increasing cost of health care, which, although not as comprehensive as some other countries is quite comprehensive for pregnant mothers and children in poverty, the elderly and the disabled.  One would have a very tough time showing that the risk of adverse health care events on wealth has increased significantly over the last 50 years.  There has been a modest increase in the total number of uninsured but frequently these numbers are not adjusted for immigration.  Even after adjustment for income levels the hispanic population has relatively lower demand for health insurance.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not saying there aren&#8217;t people without significant financial and health care risk, I just don&#8217;t see the evidence that the relative size of that group has changed dramatically, and in particular changed dramatically due to policy changes.</p>

	<p>Furthermore, in a representative form of government its the preferences of the median voter that tend to drive the system.  Did he analyze the risk profile of the median voter over time? Did he look to data on chnages in the risk preferences of people?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176702</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176702</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;However, those of us busybodies who are interested in making things somewhat more pleasant and less horror-filled for the duration of our stints in these mortal coils tend to like books that focus on the things one actually can do something about, like, say, making benefits portable.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Be reasonable, now- you can&#039;t expect our option-backdating ruling class, and its hired shills, to pay too much attention to the woes of us peasants. They have more important things on their minds, such as avoiding prosecution or at least negotiating a favorable plea-bargain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>However, those of us busybodies who are interested in making things somewhat more pleasant and less horror-filled for the duration of our stints in these mortal coils tend to like books that focus on the things one actually can do something about, like, say, making benefits portable.</blockquote>Be reasonable, now- you can&#8217;t expect our option-backdating ruling class, and its hired shills, to pay too much attention to the woes of us peasants. They have more important things on their minds, such as avoiding prosecution or at least negotiating a favorable plea-bargain.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176700</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176700</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I was mistaken, he doesn&#039;t endorse that idea. He makes a more general compliment of Hacker&#039;s progressive ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, I was mistaken, he doesn&#8217;t endorse that idea. He makes a more general compliment of Hacker&#8217;s progressive ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176698</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176698</guid>
		<description>&quot;second, those causes, because they are not deliberate, are just facts of the universe about which nothing can be done. &quot;

Where do you get that from?!?

You should have noticed that Lowenstien endorses the idea of portable benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;second, those causes, because they are not deliberate, are just facts of the universe about which nothing can be done. &#8221;</p>

	<p>Where do you get that from?!?</p>

	<p>You should have noticed that Lowenstien endorses the idea of portable benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: brooksfoe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176695</link>
		<dc:creator>brooksfoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176695</guid>
		<description>Lowenstein&#039;s argument is: first, Hacker ought to focus more on those causes of risk shift, like globalization, which are not deliberate; and second, those causes, because they are not deliberate, are just facts of the universe about which nothing can be done. It&#039;s an interesting standpoint, like arguing that books about how to live a healthy lifestyle ought to focus more on the fact that we&#039;re all getting older and will eventually die no matter what we do. 

However, those of us busybodies who are interested in making things somewhat more pleasant and less horror-filled for the duration of our stints in these mortal coils tend to like books that focus on the things one actually can do something about, like, say, making benefits portable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lowenstein&#8217;s argument is: first, Hacker ought to focus more on those causes of risk shift, like globalization, which are not deliberate; and second, those causes, because they are not deliberate, are just facts of the universe about which nothing can be done. It&#8217;s an interesting standpoint, like arguing that books about how to live a healthy lifestyle ought to focus more on the fact that we&#8217;re all getting older and will eventually die no matter what we do.</p>

	<p>However, those of us busybodies who are interested in making things somewhat more pleasant and less horror-filled for the duration of our stints in these mortal coils tend to like books that focus on the things one actually can do something about, like, say, making benefits portable.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176689</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176689</guid>
		<description>Eek! My last nit-picking sentence was prefaced with &quot;nitpickery alert&quot; but somehow the posting software cut it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eek! My last nit-picking sentence was prefaced with &#8220;nitpickery alert&#8221; but somehow the posting software cut it out.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176688</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176688</guid>
		<description>Excellent post - but sometimes it seems that there&#039;s an tendency for American center-leftish discussion on risk/globalization to reify and slightly mystify the European experience. After all, every single European country has plenty of commentators and politicians who would happily strip away any additional risk-protection, and are pressing hard to do so. I can understand the need for a counter-example to point to, but there is an unquestionable tendency among elements of the US social-democrat(ish) left to view W. Europe as a unified, unchanging, unconflicted welfare state. I haven&#039;t read Hacker&#039;s book, so I don&#039;t mean him, rather just a general point.  

And, er,  &quot;scrupulosity&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Excellent post &#8211; but sometimes it seems that there&#8217;s an tendency for American center-leftish discussion on risk/globalization to reify and slightly mystify the European experience. After all, every single European country has plenty of commentators and politicians who would happily strip away any additional risk-protection, and are pressing hard to do so. I can understand the need for a counter-example to point to, but there is an unquestionable tendency among elements of the US social-democrat(ish) left to view W. Europe as a unified, unchanging, unconflicted welfare state. I haven&#8217;t read Hacker&#8217;s book, so I don&#8217;t mean him, rather just a general point.</p>

	<p>And, er,  &#8220;scrupulosity&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176629</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176629</guid>
		<description>Wrong. The part that I discuss is in fact Hacker&#039;s argument, which Lowenstein badly misunderstands, as I explain above at no doubt tedious length. Read the book. You very obviously don&#039;t know what you are talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wrong. The part that I discuss is in fact Hacker&#8217;s argument, which Lowenstein badly misunderstands, as I explain above at no doubt tedious length. Read the book. You very obviously don&#8217;t know what you are talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176628</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176628</guid>
		<description>The part you site is not his statement of Hacker’s argument, but his statment that more focus on the causes of risk shift would help provide the perspective to deal with it more effectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The part you site is not his statement of Hacker&#8217;s argument, but his statment that more focus on the causes of risk shift would help provide the perspective to deal with it more effectively.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176627</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176627</guid>
		<description>My substantive criticism can be infered by clicking the link and reading the Lowenstien review.

The part you site is not his statement of Hacker&#039;s argument, but his statment that Hacker&#039;s more focus on the causes of risk shift would help provide the perspective to deal with it more effectively.

I recommend reading further down.

He was very generous in not criticising Hacker to harshly for some of his sillier statements, like &quot;The big puzzle is why political and corporate leaders have been so slow to respond … they’ve actually piled on new risks even as Americans have become increasingly insecure &quot;.  A bigger puzzle is why haven&#039;t they done it faster.  All risk the employer assumes translates into a cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My substantive criticism can be infered by clicking the link and reading the Lowenstien review.</p>

	<p>The part you site is not his statement of Hacker&#8217;s argument, but his statment that Hacker&#8217;s more focus on the causes of risk shift would help provide the perspective to deal with it more effectively.</p>

	<p>I recommend reading further down.</p>

	<p>He was very generous in not criticising Hacker to harshly for some of his sillier statements, like &#8220;The big puzzle is why political and corporate leaders have been so slow to respond &#8230; they&#8217;ve actually piled on new risks even as Americans have become increasingly insecure &#8220;.  A bigger puzzle is why haven&#8217;t they done it faster.  All risk the employer assumes translates into a cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176624</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176624</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think so too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And what makes you an authority? Il n&#039;y a pas de hors-texte, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>I think so too.</blockquote>And what makes you an authority? Il n&#8217;y a pas de hors-texte, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/comment-page-1/#comment-176622</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 18:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/10/23/hackwork/#comment-176622</guid>
		<description>aaron - if you have a substantive criticism to make, make it. If you just want to call names, don&#039;t be surprised if your future comments get deleted for being worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>aaron &#8211; if you have a substantive criticism to make, make it. If you just want to call names, don&#8217;t be surprised if your future comments get deleted for being worthless.</p>
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