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	<title>Comments on: Memo on French Riots to Martin Peretz, Stanley Kurtz, and other assorted wingnuts</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177836</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177836</guid>
		<description>OregonGuy is right in one thing: refusing to call the problem &quot;the problem&quot; doesn&#039;t make it go away. Except the problem isn&#039;t Islam, it&#039;s wingnuttery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OregonGuy is right in one thing: refusing to call the problem &#8220;the problem&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make it go away. Except the problem isn&#8217;t Islam, it&#8217;s wingnuttery.</p>
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		<title>By: astrongmaybe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177780</link>
		<dc:creator>astrongmaybe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177780</guid>
		<description>Oregonguy @ 28. I don’t think you can really counter the various arguments given here by citing a single op-ed piece by Wolffsohn, who is more or less an exact German equivalent of the people (Stanley Kurtz et al) named in the original post. Furthermore, the article itself is slightly… slight. He claims the best and brightest of European Muslims are despairing about the continent&#039;s future, then bases his case on 3 (three) Muslims who have left Europe because of “things Islamic”. He then names a fourth (German politician Mehmet Daimagüler), but this man’s “getting away from things Islamic” takes him from Germany to...Turkey? Is this the best evidence he can come up with? Or that you can?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oregonguy @ 28. I don&#8217;t think you can really counter the various arguments given here by citing a single op-ed piece by Wolffsohn, who is more or less an exact German equivalent of the people (Stanley Kurtz et al) named in the original post. Furthermore, the article itself is slightly&#8230; slight. He claims the best and brightest of European Muslims are despairing about the continent&#8217;s future, then bases his case on 3 (three) Muslims who have left Europe because of &#8220;things Islamic&#8221;. He then names a fourth (German politician Mehmet Daimag&#252;ler), but this man&#8217;s &#8220;getting away from things Islamic&#8221; takes him from Germany to&#8230;Turkey? Is this the best evidence he can come up with? Or that you can?</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177727</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 18:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177727</guid>
		<description>Sarkozy&#039;s drum is rather quiet these days.

His cops were enrolled early in his campaign - the media and Sarkozy voters love these &quot;cops team crashing doors at dawn in some suburbs&quot; sequences, but it seems to generate tensions rather than ease them (whoddathunk?). So people have begun to say that his police-as-spectacle is bad for the cops, and to pay attention to his - bad - results.

So he&#039;s quiet these days : i think its because he realises that his arsonist-fireman pattern begins to show. 

Of course this is only my interpretation, and I just can&#039;t stand the guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sarkozy&#8217;s drum is rather quiet these days.</p>

	<p>His cops were enrolled early in his campaign &#8211; the media and Sarkozy voters love these &#8220;cops team crashing doors at dawn in some suburbs&#8221; sequences, but it seems to generate tensions rather than ease them (whoddathunk?). So people have begun to say that his police-as-spectacle is bad for the cops, and to pay attention to his &#8211; bad &#8211; results.</p>

	<p>So he&#8217;s quiet these days : i think its because he realises that his arsonist-fireman pattern begins to show.</p>

	<p>Of course this is only my interpretation, and I just can&#8217;t stand the guy.</p>
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		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177713</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 14:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177713</guid>
		<description>Mr. Le Pen has a problem with rational thought as well.
Anti-Arab racism, for all its virulent prevalence in some circles, is still too obvious and hypocritical, so it&#039;s couched in code words like &quot;radical Islamist&quot; and the rest of the glossary of hatred and manipulation.
Hey, speaking of rational politicians in modern-day France - where&#039;s Mr. Sarkozy in all this?
Having scraped the cream pie off his face, his big drum banging away...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Le Pen has a problem with rational thought as well.<br />
Anti-Arab racism, for all its virulent prevalence in some circles, is still too obvious and hypocritical, so it&#8217;s couched in code words like &#8220;radical Islamist&#8221; and the rest of the glossary of hatred and manipulation.<br />
Hey, speaking of rational politicians in modern-day France &#8211; where&#8217;s Mr. Sarkozy in all this?<br />
Having scraped the cream pie off his face, his big drum banging away&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177702</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 11:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177702</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I overlooked this one last time, roger at 20 :

&lt;i&gt;an alliance with other racist groups in France – looking for some pro-Israel Le Pen type&lt;/i&gt;

Mr Le Pen has a problem with Jews, not Israel. He was even saying how he liked Sharon&#039;s style, iirc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, I overlooked this one last time, roger at 20 :</p>

	<p><i>an alliance with other racist groups in France &#8211; looking for some pro-Israel Le Pen type</i></p>

	<p>Mr Le Pen has a problem with Jews, not Israel. He was even saying how he liked Sharon&#8217;s style, iirc.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177696</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 08:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177696</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Race is a relatively minor component of modern anti-Islamism.&lt;/i&gt;

In the &lt;i&gt;US mainstream media&lt;/i&gt; it is still a relatively minor component, but if you take a wider view - I don&#039;t think it&#039;s minor at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Race is a relatively minor component of modern anti-Islamism.</i></p>

	<p>In the <i>US mainstream media</i> it is still a relatively minor component, but if you take a wider view &#8211; I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s minor at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177688</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177688</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I did not think it was done by Arab teens who were doing riots in the name of Islam but still believe that most of the rioting in this instance was done by children, born in Europoe, with parents from north Africa—ie, muslim backgrounds and arab heritage&lt;/i&gt;

I have heard that Arabs were a minority among the more violent of last fall&#039;s rioters, &quot;more violent&quot; meaning the ones who were stoning the police and burning cars, not just yelling and shouting.  By some estimates about 60% to 70% of the violent rioters were African rather than Arab, and some of them weren&#039;t Muslim at all.

On the bigger issue of Muslims in Europe, Spain is an interesting example.  It has many Muslim immigrants, particularly from Morocco, but for the most part they are not considered much of a problem.  The (non-Muslim) immigrants from Latin America, in contrast, are proving to be a major headache.  al-Qaeda has very few if any followers in Spain, but the Latin Kings have thousands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I did not think it was done by Arab teens who were doing riots in the name of Islam but still believe that most of the rioting in this instance was done by children, born in Europoe, with parents from north Africa&#8212;ie, muslim backgrounds and arab heritage</i></p>

	<p>I have heard that Arabs were a minority among the more violent of last fall&#8217;s rioters, &#8220;more violent&#8221; meaning the ones who were stoning the police and burning cars, not just yelling and shouting.  By some estimates about 60% to 70% of the violent rioters were African rather than Arab, and some of them weren&#8217;t Muslim at all.</p>

	<p>On the bigger issue of Muslims in Europe, Spain is an interesting example.  It has many Muslim immigrants, particularly from Morocco, but for the most part they are not considered much of a problem.  The (non-Muslim) immigrants from Latin America, in contrast, are proving to be a major headache.  al-Qaeda has very few if any followers in Spain, but the Latin Kings have thousands.</p>
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		<title>By: OregonGuy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177685</link>
		<dc:creator>OregonGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 03:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177685</guid>
		<description>Not wanting to disagree directly, I refer you to this article: http://www.welt.de/data/2006/10/26/1087601.html

There&#039;s plenty to be said about the apprehension that things islamic are wrong in europe. An unwillingness to call the problem &quot;the problem&quot; doesn&#039;t make the problem go away for anyone. Trying to shift this into a problem with Zionism is ridiculous on its face.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Not wanting to disagree directly, I refer you to this article: <a href="http://www.welt.de/data/2006/10/26/1087601.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.welt.de/data/2006/10/26/1087601.html</a></p>

	<p>There&#8217;s plenty to be said about the apprehension that things islamic are wrong in europe. An unwillingness to call the problem &#8220;the problem&#8221; doesn&#8217;t make the problem go away for anyone. Trying to shift this into a problem with Zionism is ridiculous on its face.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Edelstein</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177677</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Edelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Nov 2006 00:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177677</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to agree with Chris Williams on the parallels between anti-Islamic and anti-Semitic prejudices, but I&#039;d argue that the analogy is less to Nazi anti-Semitism than to &lt;i&gt;classical&lt;/i&gt; anti-Semitism of the Pfefferkorn-to-Protocols variety.  

Race is a relatively minor component of modern anti-Islamism, so most of the Nazi pathologies don&#039;t come into play.  On the other hand, the rhetorical and stereotyping patterns of anti-Islamism have some striking parallels to the earlier, religious and culturally-based anti-Semitism.  Muslims are portrayed as both dangerous radicals and the secret rulers of the world; they are stereotyped as an alien and unassimilable minority that must be made to give up its backward customs for its own good; their religious texts are cherry-picked to make them appear to be enemies of humanity; they are vengeful of slights real and imagined; they engage in shadowy conspiracies against civilization as we know it.

There&#039;s almost a one-to-one correspondence between Bat Ye&#039;or and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.  Anti-Islamism isn&#039;t anti-Semitism, but sometimes it can be a very anti-Semitic type of prejudice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m going to agree with Chris Williams on the parallels between anti-Islamic and anti-Semitic prejudices, but I&#8217;d argue that the analogy is less to Nazi anti-Semitism than to <i>classical</i> anti-Semitism of the Pfefferkorn-to-Protocols variety.</p>

	<p>Race is a relatively minor component of modern anti-Islamism, so most of the Nazi pathologies don&#8217;t come into play.  On the other hand, the rhetorical and stereotyping patterns of anti-Islamism have some striking parallels to the earlier, religious and culturally-based anti-Semitism.  Muslims are portrayed as both dangerous radicals and the secret rulers of the world; they are stereotyped as an alien and unassimilable minority that must be made to give up its backward customs for its own good; their religious texts are cherry-picked to make them appear to be enemies of humanity; they are vengeful of slights real and imagined; they engage in shadowy conspiracies against civilization as we know it.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s almost a one-to-one correspondence between Bat Ye&#8217;or and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.  Anti-Islamism isn&#8217;t anti-Semitism, but sometimes it can be a very anti-Semitic type of prejudice.</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177667</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177667</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They live in a movie.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, that&#039;s exactly how I see it. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;This is the normalization or routinization of chaos. The French government is at wit&#039;s end. It is also the revenge of the colonized over the imperializers. ... This is the permanent condition of France.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Maybe the rioting will stop and other forms of violent and anti-social behavior, too, when the muezzin summons the faithful to prayer from Notre Dame.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a porn movie for people like Peretz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>They live in a movie.</i></p>

	<p>Yes, that&#8217;s exactly how I see it.</p>

	<p><blockquote>This is the normalization or routinization of chaos. The French government is at wit&#8217;s end. It is also the revenge of the colonized over the imperializers. &#8230; This is the permanent condition of France.</blockquote></p>

	<p><blockquote>Maybe the rioting will stop and other forms of violent and anti-social behavior, too, when the muezzin summons the faithful to prayer from Notre Dame.</blockquote></p>

	<p>This is a porn movie for people like Peretz.</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177663</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 21:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177663</guid>
		<description>Seems tnr is slightly on the right of Le Pen - he&#039;s not so big on the &quot;demographic menace&quot; thing anymore these days. Too openly &quot;biological racism&quot;. You&#039;d have to search the extreme right wing groupuscules fauna for a match to this mainstream (yes?) right wing &quot;publication&quot;.

What&#039;s fascinates me here is that boundless capacity to phantasize the world. Tnr readers know that : 

- France opposed the Iraq war because of its irrelevance, or lost empire, envy. Sure those reasons seem ridiculous to you, dear american, reader : it just shows how strange, foreign, arcane and exotic french minds are.

- As a consequence, Paris is now in rubbles, patrolled by muslimonazis militias, as you saw on CNN.

They live in a movie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Seems tnr is slightly on the right of Le Pen &#8211; he&#8217;s not so big on the &#8220;demographic menace&#8221; thing anymore these days. Too openly &#8220;biological racism&#8221;. You&#8217;d have to search the extreme right wing groupuscules fauna for a match to this mainstream (yes?) right wing &#8220;publication&#8221;.</p>

	<p>What&#8217;s fascinates me here is that boundless capacity to phantasize the world. Tnr readers know that :</p>
 &#8211; France opposed the Iraq war because of its irrelevance, or lost empire, envy. Sure those reasons seem ridiculous to you, dear american, reader : it just shows how strange, foreign, arcane and exotic french minds are.
 &#8211; As a consequence, Paris is now in rubbles, patrolled by muslimonazis militias, as you saw on <span class="caps">CNN</span>.

	<p>They live in a movie.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177649</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 18:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177649</guid>
		<description>In relation to immigraiton, although the demographic stakes may be higher in Europe, the cultural stakes are higher in the USA.

In other words if you a have country like the USA with a historical ideology of open immigration and a  universalist political rhetoric as well as a distaste for the state regulating religion, the demographics of religion is a critical issue.

The  European mindset seems so much to me like &quot;the world will be OK as long as everyone stays in the culture where they belong.&quot;  Its very border historico-border-centric.

Yes, the Eurabia worries may be a caricature, but how else but with relatively different rates of  immigration and reproduction does one explain the American influence that these same doubters dislike.

Isn&#039;t America at 2006 proof that demographics and ideology matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In relation to immigraiton, although the demographic stakes may be higher in Europe, the cultural stakes are higher in the <span class="caps">USA</span>.</p>

	<p>In other words if you a have country like the <span class="caps">USA</span> with a historical ideology of open immigration and a  universalist political rhetoric as well as a distaste for the state regulating religion, the demographics of religion is a critical issue.</p>

	<p>The  European mindset seems so much to me like &#8220;the world will be OK as long as everyone stays in the culture where they belong.&#8221;  Its very border historico-border-centric.</p>

	<p>Yes, the Eurabia worries may be a caricature, but how else but with relatively different rates of  immigration and reproduction does one explain the American influence that these same doubters dislike.</p>

	<p>Isn&#8217;t America at 2006 proof that demographics and ideology matter?</p>
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		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177643</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 17:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177643</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not certain how much of the fear should be taken at face value. There also seems to be a lot of wishful thinking involved. The destruction of France at the hands of the Muslim barbarians is too much of a wet dream for a certain kind of American rightwinger, hence the slavering over images of monstrous clerics looking down, Quasimodo-like, from the cathedral at the burning city. Even though they must know somewhere that it&#039;s never going to happen, they can&#039;t stop fantasising about it, because it would prove, once and for all, what they have always known: not only is America indisputably better than Europe, but also that Muslims are evil, and secular Europeans are guilty by association.

So while I think fear may be an important element, I also think we shouldn&#039;t underestimate the appeal of hatred, wishful &lt;i&gt;schadenfreude&lt;/i&gt; and a desperate desire for vindication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not certain how much of the fear should be taken at face value. There also seems to be a lot of wishful thinking involved. The destruction of France at the hands of the Muslim barbarians is too much of a wet dream for a certain kind of American rightwinger, hence the slavering over images of monstrous clerics looking down, Quasimodo-like, from the cathedral at the burning city. Even though they must know somewhere that it&#8217;s never going to happen, they can&#8217;t stop fantasising about it, because it would prove, once and for all, what they have always known: not only is America indisputably better than Europe, but also that Muslims are evil, and secular Europeans are guilty by association.</p>

	<p>So while I think fear may be an important element, I also think we shouldn&#8217;t underestimate the appeal of hatred, wishful <i>schadenfreude</i> and a desperate desire for vindication.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177640</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177640</guid>
		<description>This stuff is essentially Israel-lobby propaganda (hence Peretz&#039;s enthusiasm for it), part of their ongoing effort to frighten Americans into supporting policies that are in direct conflict  with the best interests of &lt;i&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; the US and Israel.

(In an effort to prevent this from starting the thread on the usual downhill slide, I specifically do NOT intend this comment as an attack on the State of Israel per se. It is proverbial, in fact, that many matters relating to Israeli government policy and the Middle East in general can be and are discussed far more openly and rationally in Israel itself than they can in the US.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This stuff is essentially Israel-lobby propaganda (hence Peretz&#8217;s enthusiasm for it), part of their ongoing effort to frighten Americans into supporting policies that are in direct conflict  with the best interests of <i>both</i> the US and Israel.</p>

	<p>(In an effort to prevent this from starting the thread on the usual downhill slide, I specifically do <span class="caps">NOT</span> intend this comment as an attack on the State of Israel per se. It is proverbial, in fact, that many matters relating to Israeli government policy and the Middle East in general can be and are discussed far more openly and rationally in Israel itself than they can in the US.)</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/comment-page-1/#comment-177637</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Nov 2006 16:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/02/memo-on-french-riots-to-martin-peretz-stanley-kurtz-and-other-assorted-wingnuts/#comment-177637</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;or is it meant in some weird way to cement an alliance with other racist groups in France – looking for some pro-Israel Le Pen type?&lt;/i&gt;

No, of course not. It doesn&#039;t have much to do with France; quite simply they are pursuing every opportunity to illustrate that the Arabs and Muslims are dangerous, untrustworthy, destructive, and basically wicked in every respect.  

That the magazine is not read doesn&#039;t matter, as long as it can function as a thinktank of a sort: linked to, quoted, provides catchphrases, examples, talking points and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>or is it meant in some weird way to cement an alliance with other racist groups in France &#8211; looking for some pro-Israel Le Pen type?</i></p>

	<p>No, of course not. It doesn&#8217;t have much to do with France; quite simply they are pursuing every opportunity to illustrate that the Arabs and Muslims are dangerous, untrustworthy, destructive, and basically wicked in every respect.</p>

	<p>That the magazine is not read doesn&#8217;t matter, as long as it can function as a thinktank of a sort: linked to, quoted, provides catchphrases, examples, talking points and so on.</p>
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